Experience or Judgment

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Maddog

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The article below is a tragic story of a young rider who died riding his brand new R1. The father rationalizes his decision to buy his sixteen year old son an R1 based on the young man's experience.

In my opinion, good judgment is more important than experience. In this case I think both father and son exhibited poor judgment. The resulting tragedy was avoidable.

My prayers are with the family.

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Father denies son was doing tricks before fatal crash

10:19 AM PDT on Tuesday, July 29, 2008

By LAURIE LUCAS

The Press-Enterprise

The father of a Riverside teen disputes initial reports that his son Austin Lee Allen died while performing stunts on his new motorcycle.

Reached Monday by phone, Stephen Allen, 48, of Perris, said: "Was he doing high-speed turns? Yes. Did he pop a wheelie? He might have. Were there single tracks with burnout? No. When I saw the tire marks, I saw no sign of high-speed stunts."

Austin Lee Allen, who turned 16 last month, died Saturday after he crashed the super sports motorcycle he was riding into a wall of his high school parking lot. The accident occurred about 7:20 p.m. at Martin Luther King Jr. High School in Riverside.

Story continues below

Witnesses said Austin was going more than 100 mph when he lost control, couldn't turn in time and smashed into a white stucco wall near the girls locker room, Riverside police spokesman Steven Frasher said. "We won't have the scientific calculations for some time."

Frasher said Austin was wearing a helmet. The Yamaha R1 was purchased two weeks ago from a Corona dealership, Frasher said.

Stephen Allen said Austin had just gotten his Class M1 license, which allowed him to operate any two-wheel motorcycle, motor-driven cycle or motorized scooter and all vehicles listed under Class M2 (mopeds, any bicycle with an attached motor or motorized scooter).

Allen, a quality engineer at Lockheed, said the two were extremely close. He and his ex-wife, Lana Allen, have shared custody of Austin since he was 6 months old.

Allen said he bought his only child the powerful red and black bike with its 1,000 cc. (1-liter) engine because Austin was an "experienced" rider, who grew up on motorized bikes, quads, Sea-doos, ATVs and motorcycles since he was 18 months old. Allen permitted Austin since age 15 ½ to ride his Yamaha FV6. The two biked to Glamis, Lake Arrowhead and Placentia together.

"I've ridden behind, in front and beside him," Allen said. "I've watched every move. I preached safety first."

Austin passed the required motorcycle safety course and checked in with Allen before and after every solo ride. In the week he had the Yamaha R1, "he was the happiest I'd ever seen him," Allen said.

Dean Thompson, a spokesman for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation in Irvine, said their organization recommends smaller, lighter, less powerful bikes for beginning riders. "But some 16-year-olds are expert racers," he said. "The right motorcycle choice all comes down to skill level."

 
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uggggg....

I would guess he was showboating, since it was right at school.

But maybe a squirell ran out and fooked him over, who knows.

 
Bad judgment can exceed any level of experience. That doesn't make either one more important than the other.

Kind of like asking if food or water is more important.

Sounds like the kid's riding style might have changed once Dad's eyes weren't in the way, which would make this a judgment failure.

 
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Horrible report, I hate to read these things, this happens all too often. The kid could have done this on an R6 too or even a smaller bike. It's a rather large bike for a first time street bike for a 16 year old IMHO. I understand how the power of such a bike is intoxicating to say the least. Understanding the physics of braking, acceleration, speed, distance, and closing speed is another issue.

I would never buy my kid a large street bike like that for their first street bike. That still may not have saved him even with a smaller one but it's better to get used to a bike starting at the bottom.

Bummer all the way around.

 
It really doesn't not matter if your on a R1 or ninja 250, both poor judgment and lack of experience can kill you, but I think the lack or good judgment is the bigger danger by far, if one is going to ride over their experience level , due to having poor judgment, to relalise your in over your head, your going to get hurt,

Sad story, I feel for the family and their loss, but it's clear, the first deadly mistake was for the father to show poor judgment in buying his kid a bike that he was not ready for, we all know 16 yr olds think their invincible, but a father should know better. my prayers are with them

And I don't care what type of quad or seadoo or moto cross experience you have, it's not the same as a lite bike on the street, baby steps

 
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Sad, very sad....

I've never know very many 16 yr olds that had the maturity for good judgment. I know I didn't.

An R1?

I'm thankful all I had at 16 was a '73 XL250. It got me in enough trouble.

 
I have a lotta years of experience and for the most part it keeps me out of situations where reflexes or judgement are needed. You didn't mention the 3rd needed aspect, and that is the self-discipline to follow the judgement and experience. Yes, I still occasionally do stupid things.

More to the point, my 18 year-old son has pretty good judgement, but every now & then he reminds me that he has the self-discipline and emotional reactions of a teenager.

 
Kids have good reflexes -- but, that's about it.

My son grew-up on nice small 4-stroke dirt-bikes -- XL70, XL100, etc. But, when 16, he talked his (now divorced) mom into buying him a 55 HP RZ 350 (but mom, it's only a 350...). Of course he crashed it....several times.

Luckily, he's still around and in good health; has kids of his own; still rides; and is waaay more sensible.

Point of the story...?

I guess I'd say there's good reason for the age of consent/adulthood.

Kids need good parenting/tough love.

I don't think a 16 year-old kid should be riding an R1 -- hell, I shouldn't be riding an R1.... :huh:

Still....sad for all concerned.

 
Regardless of how much experience he had, it was overcome by poor judgement. We have all been guilty of it, and sometimes lucky enough to live through it and realize our mistake. It's sad this kid wont get the same chance.

 
What a horrible report. Im deff going with judgement over experiance. I cant believe that anyone would put a 16 YO on an R1. The kid isnt old enough to practice good judgement and the father obviously has no sence at all. Kids have to deal with there peers. A 16 yo on an R1 even if you think he is reponsable still may be faced with the friends egging him on to see what that R1 can do. A normally sensible teen can turn pretty stupid when his buddies are standing around calling him a *****. I know that this is a stretch and who knows why this kid was doing what he was doing but I remember what it was like to be a kid and this is just somthing I would consider even if I felt my 16 yo kid was capable of being reposible on a bike that can 160+ mph. How tragic and avoidable. :rip_1:

 
I can only speak from my own viewpoint. I have TONS of experience, but the only times I have truly been in danger on a MC is due to my poor judgement at the time. Certainly there is a threshold of experience and skill one must have, but that threshold is pretty low, everything considered. Judgement and the determination to follow it is the weak link...IMHO.

I would be heartbroken had this been my son. He rides, and I bought him MCs to ride when he was younger. Thank God he did not meet this end. :(

Ed

 
A father in the MC shop asked me if he should buy his 16 yr old a CBR1000 for his first bike.

The son didn't like my answer, looked like he wanted to kick my ***.

Young guy I know bought a RC-51 for his first bike. I told him to buy it, (great deal) put it away and buy a little beater to learn on. He took the MSF course and has three months on the RC-51, said he couldn't afford the second bike. He still hasn't opened it up, maybe he will make it?

 
Well, this puts this quote in perspective :

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement

 
Well, this puts this quote in perspective :
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement
I've used a slight variation of the exact same quote for years.

Good judgment comes from experience...most of which comes from bad judgment.

Neither good judgment nor experience were in effect here... experience would dictate that a 16 y/o doesn't get a freekin' 1,000cc supersport bike.

He's not rationalizing his son's decision...he's rationalizing his own.

Condolences to the family. Let's hope there's an aspiring young rider out there somewhere who learns from this.

 
Well, this puts this quote in perspective :
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement

Couldn't have put it better myself. Every time we screw up, hopefully we survive the event and learn something from it. On that premise, I know one heck of a lot about riding!!! OTOH, I still have a lot to learn.

Jill

 
Neither good judgment nor experience were in effect here... experience would dictate that a 16 y/o doesn't get a freekin' 1,000cc supersport bike.He's not rationalizing his son's decision...he's rationalizing his own.

As any of us would if we were in a similar situation. I'm sure he feels an incredible amount of guilt. It's a very tragic lesson to learn.

 
Yes what a sad story. Having 2 boys myself who both love my bikes I of course am quite concerned about their fuures.

I didnt read all of your posts but I get the sense after reading many of them that many feel that judgement is more important than experience. But I think that this problem is more complex. For example parental judgement (or lack there of) may have been the most important factor here. That said there is the issue of judgement and experience of the kid. And while he might have had a great amount of experience. The problem with 16 year old boys isnt that they have bad judgement, what they have is a lack of ability to impliment good judgment, particularly in the absence of parents and the presense of peers. So you have raise a kid to have the great judgement and great experience and they will do stuipd things.

I dont blame the dad. I wouldnt have bought my kid an R1, i wont. However, I think at some point you have to let your kids start making their own choices, 16 is just 2 years away from making decesions without your control....

 
100 miles an hour in a school parking lot ya know nothing good is going to come out of the. Thank God he did not take any one else out. We used to try to do all the stunts our bike were capable of when I was a kid but they did not have near that kind of power back then. You would be surprised what kind of wheelie you can do an a 100 - 250 cc bike though.

 
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