FJR engineers embarrassed by Concours 14

[Wicked Webby]

Hey all,

Well ,as most of you know, I am not a Kawi basher(see below my signature line) BUT give me a break on the whole C14 being superior to the FJR. Even if it does have 140ish at the tire... With the extra heft, bags sticking out farther(less top end) than the FJR and lack of low end grunt..

Both bikes are probably gonna be very very close as far as performance times.... As most know or would agree the faster bike(within comparable bikes) is always the one with the better rider.

I do not care for the looks of the C14(only my opinion) compared to the FJR. But to each his/her own. Who came up with that exhaust? I agree that the C14 needs to be the sport tourer of the year for better than two years before it can even be compared to the FJR. The whole kpass system is a unnecessary gimmick that will probably fade away like the dinosaurs(when they start to fail..more than they have already). The tire pressure monitor system is a great standard option(take note Yamaha).

The C14 is a start but needs some tweaking.... HOT HOT HEAT issues.... Bags obstructing the rear-view of the mirrors, too aggressive seating for a sport tourer(feel sorry for those over 6 foot). And YES... I have test rode one and NO, I didn't think it handled any better or worse than my FJR. The C14 is WAY too Expensive to maintain (referring to the 15,000 valve adjustments and spark plug issues.....MOTOR REMOVAL......YUK!!!!)

I suspect that most owners of the C14 will make a lot more money than I do. They better enjoy paying those stealerships them fees cause they are a coming.... Way sooner and way more of them than my FJR!!!

WW

 

[murf]

Hey all,
Well ,as most of you know, I am not a Kawi basher(see below my signature line) BUT give me a break on the whole C14 being superior to the FJR. Even if it does have 140ish at the tire... With the extra heft, bags sticking out farther(less top end) than the FJR and lack of low end grunt..

Both bikes are probably gonna be very very close as far as performance times.... As most know or would agree the faster bike(within comparable bikes) is always the one with the better rider.

I do not care for the looks of the C14(only my opinion) compared to the FJR. But to each his/her own. Who came up with that exhaust? I agree that the C14 needs to be the sport tourer of the year for better than two years before it can even be compared to the FJR. The whole kpass system is a unnecessary gimmick that will probably fade away like the dinosaurs(when they start to fail..more than they have already). The tire pressure monitor system is a great standard option(take note Yamaha).

The C14 is a start but needs some tweaking.... HOT HOT HEAT issues.... Bags obstructing the rear-view of the mirrors, too aggressive seating for a sport tourer(feel sorry for those over 6 foot). And YES... I have test rode one and NO, I didn't think it handled any better or worse than my FJR. The C14 is WAY too Expensive to maintain (referring to the 15,000 valve adjustments and spark plug issues.....MOTOR REMOVAL......YUK!!!!)

I suspect that most owners of the C14 will make a lot more money than I do. They better enjoy paying those stealerships them fees cause they are a coming.... Way sooner and way more of them than my FJR!!!

WW

Motor removal is not required to do a valve check on the C-14. However, a fair amount of stuff has to come off on the bike which probably takes 2-3 hrs. With labor rates at shops approaching 90 bucks an hour, it's not going to be cheap. Stuff to be removed to do valve check:

1. Structural supports both sides must be removed.

2. Middle fairings.

3. Air suction valves.

4. Left subframe.

5. Stick coils.

6. Inlet cam position sensor.

7. Right engine bracket.

8. Right hand side cover.

Info from shop manual.

 

[daddysbike]

While riding in the smokies last week I met a rider on a Concours. I expected him to be bragging about it. Instead he said the jury is still out. He didn't like the airflow or the heat blowing on him. He's owned several bikes and mentioned his son owns a '04 FJR and that he didn't like the heat on that. I told him the '06 FJR has improved heat/airflow/valve tick fix and he should try one if he finds he doesn't like the Concours.

I also didn't like the looks of it so I'm sticking with my FJR a few years more until my back/hip demand another upright more comfortable (Goldwing? RT? GS?) bike.

I did love my all day ride on a ZX14 though but hear riders also say its hot.

Steve

 

[Wicked Webby]

Hey all,
Well ,as most of you know, I am not a Kawi basher(see below my signature line) BUT give me a break on the whole C14 being superior to the FJR. Even if it does have 140ish at the tire... With the extra heft, bags sticking out farther(less top end) than the FJR and lack of low end grunt..

Both bikes are probably gonna be very very close as far as performance times.... As most know or would agree the faster bike(within comparable bikes) is always the one with the better rider.

I do not care for the looks of the C14(only my opinion) compared to the FJR. But to each his/her own. Who came up with that exhaust? I agree that the C14 needs to be the sport tourer of the year for better than two years before it can even be compared to the FJR. The whole kpass system is a unnecessary gimmick that will probably fade away like the dinosaurs(when they start to fail..more than they have already). The tire pressure monitor system is a great standard option(take note Yamaha).

The C14 is a start but needs some tweaking.... HOT HOT HEAT issues.... Bags obstructing the rear-view of the mirrors, too aggressive seating for a sport tourer(feel sorry for those over 6 foot). And YES... I have test rode one and NO, I didn't think it handled any better or worse than my FJR. The C14 is WAY too Expensive to maintain (referring to the 15,000 valve adjustments and spark plug issues.....MOTOR REMOVAL......YUK!!!!)

I suspect that most owners of the C14 will make a lot more money than I do. They better enjoy paying those stealerships them fees cause they are a coming.... Way sooner and way more of them than my FJR!!!

WW

Motor removal is not required to do a valve check on the C-14. However, a fair amount of stuff has to come off on the bike which probably takes 2-3 hrs. With labor rates at shops approaching 90 bucks an hour, it's not going to be cheap. Stuff to be removed to do valve check:

1. Structural supports both sides must be removed.

2. Middle fairings.

3. Air suction valves.

4. Left subframe.

5. Stick coils.

6. Inlet cam position sensor.

7. Right engine bracket.

8. Right hand side cover.

Info from shop manual.

Murf,

Hmmm...... You got yourself a C14 service manual....... already.... huh? I am throwing the ******** flag.

Maybe you have access to one BUT from what you described it sure sounds like a motor drop... Lets see..

Remove all structural supports..Left subframe...Cam sensor..Right ENGINE bracket....Only 2-3 hours of shop time

my ***.

PLEASE post a couple pics of this "service manual" of the C14 describing this...

WW

 

[Bounce]

I'm guessing it's too early for the engineers of the C14 to be embarrased about their bike (or other engineers to be embarrased BY the C14).

Clearly the designers have been caught, red-handed, stealing their ideas from Chrysler.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Bounce,

Now that is a great observation....and post!

WW

 

[06INDIXIE]

While riding in the smokies last week I met a rider on a Concours. I expected him to be bragging about it. Instead he said the jury is still out. He didn't like the airflow or the heat blowing on him. He's owned several bikes and mentioned his son owns a '04 FJR and that he didn't like the heat on that. I told him the '06 FJR has improved heat/airflow/valve tick fix and he should try one if he finds he doesn't like the Concours.I also didn't like the looks of it so I'm sticking with my FJR a few years more until my back/hip demand another upright more comfortable (Goldwing? RT? GS?) bike.

I did love my all day ride on a ZX14 though but hear riders also say its hot.

Steve

After an all day ride you could not tell if it was hot?

 

[Leartech]

So, I am guilty of reading this thing all the way through. It seems to me, it is all subjective and comes down to what you like. I like nearly everything about my FJR. I doubt very seriously the new Kawi is going to be that much better, if any different at all. So, back to what people like.

I went to the dealership locally to check one out. This young punk sales kid walks up and asks what I ride. With a grin, I said FJR. So, he removed the "Do not sit on bike." sign and said hop on. I sit on the thing, play with the buttons, bounce it around, get a feel for the weight, all the nonsense you can do sitting in a showroom. After three minutes of fiddling with the bike, the dork has enough brain activity to ask if I liked it better than my FJR. I looked at him and asked, "Are you ******* kidding?" With that, I hopped off and walked out laughing at the thought of being able to compare it in that manner.

So, my thoughts after only sitting on one? LOL, the damn thing reminds me of my FJR. Why would I give much thought to seriously considering a trade if it so quickly reminds me of what I already have? I doubt the differences are worth the time, money or effort. It is probably a very nice bike though. Now if only Kawi green didn't make me want to puke so bad............obviously, that is what counts.

I still haven't seen one on the road. Looking forward to that day.

Bryan

 

[evilmedic13]

They seem to have a serious lack of existence out here. I've seen every damned bike made in the last 10 years out in the last 3 weeks, except for that and any Augusta's. They're killing me I tell ya :angry:

 

[yamaholic]

I feel if I want a bike any smoother than my FJR I will look to buy an electric. I like to feel the grunt, hear the sound, and sense the vibration of a powerful well engineered machine.

Maybe I am corrupted, my other bike is a Suzuki TLR and my car has a Yamaha engine.

SHO?

Yes

Cool. My MR2 Turbo has Yamaha pasted all over the side cover. Toyota outsourced the build of the entire vehicle and engine design to Yamaha, knowing they were experts with handcraft and high performance. If you saw the engine bay and chassis, it's clear that it HAD to be hand assembled. It's pushing about 150hp/liter My 4runner has Yamaha designed/built "XREAS" suspension. It's a hydraulic, cross linked sway bar system. Works awesome, best handling real SUV (meaning can tow a bunch and can offroad well) out there. Every vehicle in the house is Yamaha or Toyota, save for the wife's Honda Hawk GT

Their hands are in places you would not expect!

As far as Kawasaki goes..nice bike, but the FJR suites me to a "T". I was not impressed with my last Kawa build quality and design, personnally.

 

[Ramblin Man]

Wow. 6 pages. I would just like to point out that both balancers ARE adjustable by anyone with the tools and desire to give it a try. I've been tempted. I would doubt that these motors are hand balanced but are just assembled according to some predetermined setting that they created with test engines back in 1999 when they designed the motor. There may be some room for improvement.

What would be nice is to have a dyno, or at least somthing to keep the bike stationary while letting you put a lod on the rear tire. Then, put the bike in gear and do the TBS and unoffical TBS at different speeds like 40, 70, 90 MPH. I think thats where you'd find the big reductions in vibration. You could play with the balancers at the same time.

But as to the title of this topic, embarrassed? I think flattered would be more believable.

 

[GreyGoose]

Ok, after 6 pages, i better get on board.......

Engineers embarressed?........Theyde have a fit if they knew what they built...

The engineers of motorcycles never take these bikes out. Look at the history

BMW surge problems

FJR heat issues (Gen 1)

FJR vibration issues (gen 1 and 2)

ST1300 heat Issues

Overall lack of sport tourer adjustability (we've just lately seen minimal seat height and handlebar adjustment options)

With todays technology available, its amazing how little we get in some areas (certainly handling and power have made huge strides). The idea that the bars buzz, the gen I guys get cooked, our shoes soles become one with the exhaust, our handlebars come with one inch adjustments, and the bikes low speed manners have much to be desired, is borderline humurous (in a sick way).

The FJR is a great bike, but theres no doubt it could be alot more (expecially straight out of the box). The reason this is the case is that motorcycles are designed by engineers and not by motorcyclists. YOu actually think an engineer got on a gen 1 fjr or a gen 2 st1300 on a 90 degree day and took it for a spin? He would have laughed at the guy who designed it after having his nuts fried. Same thing would happen when trying to limp around town with that stiff throttle (fjr) and subsequent lurch (bmw). Engineers never get to "where the rubber hits the road" when it comes to motorcycles.

Make no mistake, these guys never get near these bikes. They do a 3D model, get some instructions from the man upstairs, and sign off.

the technology is available to make a motorcycle as smooth and buzz free as an st1300, while being as light and fast as an FJR, while being as comfortable as any touring bike made, and have way more adjustability options (since its well known that humans tend to be different shapes and sizes). But untill we get a sport touring motorcycle riding engineer with "clout", we've got it (current gen2 fjr) about as good as its gonna get (for now).

Greygoose

 

[Pjturbo]

Well, I know they ride them. And the test riders put more miles on them than you or I will ever.

Phil

 

[Warchild]

Damn, there is a lot of angst in this thread! It's almost like some folks feel "threatened" by the presence of the GTR1400.... :glare:

It's just another hyper-sport-touring platform, that's all. New, yes. Worthy of investigation? Absolutely. Good for consumers to have a choice and promote further refinements of the FJR? Hell, yes.

But it's not going to determine the Fate of All Mankind...... damn, people, breathe and relax.....

In the end, as it is with all motorcycles, the key is how does the bike perform for you over the long haul? We may get a glimpse into this issue, as I have just confirmed that there is indeed a GTR1400 entered in the Iron Butt Rally this year.

I will be personally Tech Inspecting this bike tomorrow, and watch it closely over the 11-day event. I'll pass on any noteworthy findings.....

 

[Bounce]

good to know. i'll keep an eye peeled for your updates.

 

[bp2643]

"I'm guessing it's too early for the engineers of the C14 to be embarrased about their bike (or other engineers to be embarrased BY the C14). Clearly the designers have been caught, red-handed, stealing their ideas from Chrysler."

Sorry, hate to point this out but, but clearly the All-New Connie has been 22 years in the making. Obviously, Daimler/Chrysler stole the design from Kawasaki at the last minute (relatively speaking).

As a life long owner of Kawasaki's, and still really missing my 96 GPZ 1100, I have to say, if the new Connie is smoother than a yamaha it may be the first time ever for Kawasaki. My 86 Concours buzzed like a bumble bee when I got it, but after employing all the tricks it was acceptable. Having said THAT, my FJR still puts my RH to sleep after 10 mins. Working on that soon.

P.S. The Sport Touring market in the U.S. has been a barren wasteland until recently-competition will make better MCs I am all for the Concours being better now, makes Yamaha work harder on next gen.

 

[murf]

Hey all,
Well ,as most of you know, I am not a Kawi basher(see below my signature line) BUT give me a break on the whole C14 being superior to the FJR. Even if it does have 140ish at the tire... With the extra heft, bags sticking out farther(less top end) than the FJR and lack of low end grunt..

Both bikes are probably gonna be very very close as far as performance times.... As most know or would agree the faster bike(within comparable bikes) is always the one with the better rider.

I do not care for the looks of the C14(only my opinion) compared to the FJR. But to each his/her own. Who came up with that exhaust? I agree that the C14 needs to be the sport tourer of the year for better than two years before it can even be compared to the FJR. The whole kpass system is a unnecessary gimmick that will probably fade away like the dinosaurs(when they start to fail..more than they have already). The tire pressure monitor system is a great standard option(take note Yamaha).

The C14 is a start but needs some tweaking.... HOT HOT HEAT issues.... Bags obstructing the rear-view of the mirrors, too aggressive seating for a sport tourer(feel sorry for those over 6 foot). And YES... I have test rode one and NO, I didn't think it handled any better or worse than my FJR. The C14 is WAY too Expensive to maintain (referring to the 15,000 valve adjustments and spark plug issues.....MOTOR REMOVAL......YUK!!!!)

I suspect that most owners of the C14 will make a lot more money than I do. They better enjoy paying those stealerships them fees cause they are a coming.... Way sooner and way more of them than my FJR!!!

WW

Motor removal is not required to do a valve check on the C-14. However, a fair amount of stuff has to come off on the bike which probably takes 2-3 hrs. With labor rates at shops approaching 90 bucks an hour, it's not going to be cheap. Stuff to be removed to do valve check:

1. Structural supports both sides must be removed.

2. Middle fairings.

3. Air suction valves.

4. Left subframe.

5. Stick coils.

6. Inlet cam position sensor.

7. Right engine bracket.

8. Right hand side cover.

Info from shop manual.

Murf,

Hmmm...... You got yourself a C14 service manual....... already.... huh? I am throwing the ******** flag.

Maybe you have access to one BUT from what you described it sure sounds like a motor drop... Lets see..

Remove all structural supports..Left subframe...Cam sensor..Right ENGINE bracket....Only 2-3 hours of shop time

my ***.

PLEASE post a couple pics of this "service manual" of the C14 describing this...

WW

You can throw the ******** flag all ya want. Your right, I do have access to a C-14 shop manual. It's at the dealership and they have been kind enough to let me look at it and answer my questions about the bike. As far as posting pics, last time I checked, it was a copyright violation to scan printed material and pics from a copyrighted piece of material and post it on the Net.

The two to three hours was the dealer's tech estimating the time to take stuff off including the valve cover. So total time could be six hours if no adjustments to valve clearances were required.

What constitutes engine drop I guess depends on what the definition of engine drop is. According to the self proclaimed C-14 expert, COG tech editor MOB, it is not theoretically an engine drop, and he lists the stuff that has to come off. Link included for ya.

https://concours.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_...earance%2Ccheck

 

[Wicked Webby]

Hey all,
Well ,as most of you know, I am not a Kawi basher(see below my signature line) BUT give me a break on the whole C14 being superior to the FJR. Even if it does have 140ish at the tire... With the extra heft, bags sticking out farther(less top end) than the FJR and lack of low end grunt..

Both bikes are probably gonna be very very close as far as performance times.... As most know or would agree the faster bike(within comparable bikes) is always the one with the better rider.

I do not care for the looks of the C14(only my opinion) compared to the FJR. But to each his/her own. Who came up with that exhaust? I agree that the C14 needs to be the sport tourer of the year for better than two years before it can even be compared to the FJR. The whole kpass system is a unnecessary gimmick that will probably fade away like the dinosaurs(when they start to fail..more than they have already). The tire pressure monitor system is a great standard option(take note Yamaha).

The C14 is a start but needs some tweaking.... HOT HOT HEAT issues.... Bags obstructing the rear-view of the mirrors, too aggressive seating for a sport tourer(feel sorry for those over 6 foot). And YES... I have test rode one and NO, I didn't think it handled any better or worse than my FJR. The C14 is WAY too Expensive to maintain (referring to the 15,000 valve adjustments and spark plug issues.....MOTOR REMOVAL......YUK!!!!)

I suspect that most owners of the C14 will make a lot more money than I do. They better enjoy paying those stealerships them fees cause they are a coming.... Way sooner and way more of them than my FJR!!!

WW

Motor removal is not required to do a valve check on the C-14. However, a fair amount of stuff has to come off on the bike which probably takes 2-3 hrs. With labor rates at shops approaching 90 bucks an hour, it's not going to be cheap. Stuff to be removed to do valve check:

1. Structural supports both sides must be removed.

2. Middle fairings.

3. Air suction valves.

4. Left subframe.

5. Stick coils.

6. Inlet cam position sensor.

7. Right engine bracket.

8. Right hand side cover.

Info from shop manual.

Murf,

Hmmm...... You got yourself a C14 service manual....... already.... huh? I am throwing the ******** flag.

Maybe you have access to one BUT from what you described it sure sounds like a motor drop... Lets see..

Remove all structural supports..Left subframe...Cam sensor..Right ENGINE bracket....Only 2-3 hours of shop time

my ***.

PLEASE post a couple pics of this "service manual" of the C14 describing this...

WW

You can throw the ******** flag all ya want. Your right, I do have access to a C-14 shop manual. It's at the dealership and they have been kind enough to let me look at it and answer my questions about the bike. As far as posting pics, last time I checked, it was a copyright violation to scan printed material and pics from a copyrighted piece of material and post it on the Net.

The two to three hours was the dealer's tech estimating the time to take stuff off including the valve cover. So total time could be six hours if no adjustments to valve clearances were required.

What constitutes engine drop I guess depends on what the definition of engine drop is. According to the self proclaimed C-14 expert, COG tech editor MOB, it is not theoretically an engine drop, and he lists the stuff that has to come off. Link included for ya.

https://concours.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_...earance%2Ccheck

Murf,

Yep just what I expected. You don't have a C14 service manual...What dealership in MN allowed you to see one? Do tell? You haven't even seen one...Hear comes the ******** FLAG..Again!! Your spreading rumors... All you did was quote someone else's ******** off of a C14 forum. And provided the link!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Maybe you should do some of your own research on this issue before you make yourself sound any SMARTER!! Your also quoting Fred H who is a member of this board and who has posted on the C14 forums about this very issue..Because he has both bikes.

WW

 

[rayban]

Warchild and crew,

I agree with your stance. The source, and intensity, of all the emotion and shouting seems to be the original sentiment and title that implies that Kaw has created some superior, monstrous, godly FJR-killer. One might even wonder if 3/4 of the seemingly blind or relatively blindly fanboy style kaw posts aren't somehow linked to Kaw in one way or another if the facts could ever magically be brought to light.

It's a competing bike. Is it better? How do you set your definition and criteria? If you had true common sense, you'd know there is rarely such thing as "hand down better all around", hence titles like this threads are juvenile and flame-bait at best, downright ignorant at worst.

I personally have disliked Kaw after owning 4 of their products, 2 dirt and 2 street. I posted earlier in this thread my reasons and experiences. I also laughed at the original poster's assertion that Yamaha is somehow put to shame by this model.

It's another sport touring bike. It's different. I has as many or more different problems as any other model out there. Therefore the only thing it has going for it is the perception that because it's new, it must put all previous pack members to shame. Laughable.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Warchild and crew,
I agree with your stance. The source, and intensity, of all the emotion and shouting seems to be the original sentiment and title that implies that Kaw has created some superior, monstrous, godly FJR-killer. One might even wonder if 3/4 of the seemingly blind or relatively blindly fanboy style kaw posts aren't somehow linked to Kaw in one way or another if the facts could ever magically be brought to light.

It's a competing bike. Is it better? How do you set your definition and criteria? If you had true common sense, you'd know there is rarely such thing as "hand down better all around", hence titles like this threads are juvenile and flame-bait at best, downright ignorant at worst.

I personally have disliked Kaw after owning 4 of their products, 2 dirt and 2 street. I posted earlier in this thread my reasons and experiences. I also laughed at the original poster's assertion that Yamaha is somehow put to shame by this model.

It's another sport touring bike. It's different. I has as many or more different problems as any other model out there. Therefore the only thing it has going for it is the perception that because it's new, it must put all previous pack members to shame. Laughable.

Rayban,

I agree with you on all except THAT I have liked all my Kawasaki's. Still do. I do think the C14 is good in that it brings competition to the super sport tourers. It is definitely not a FJR killer nor does it even add up to a FJR yet(still needs a lot of tweaks, touch ups and proving grounds to be compared).

WW