Front Tire Mount & Balance

[fretbender]

I suppose this one may get booted over to the NEPRT section. . .but I'll let the admins make that call.

Last week I finally got around to pulling the front wheel off the FJR in order to have the old AVON AV45 replaced with a new one I ordered from FJRGoodies (way good job packaging the tire I might add). Since it was mid-week I asked my wife to drop off the tire at the shop for me. Usually I have the local KTM/GM dealership do the mount & balance for me because they charge $15 per tire vs. $25 per tire at the Yamaha shop, however I didn't make this clear and my wife ended up taking the tire into the Yamaha shop.

The previous 2 times I had the KTM dealership do the mount & balance, the tire came back with a 30g weight attached to it. Come to think of it, I'm not so sure that it wasn't the same 30g weight in exactly the same place between those two times. Also, both of those times, after putting the wheel back on the FJR, I found that I had a slight headshake while lightly decelerating through 55 - 50 mph, when taking my hands off the handlebars. Since this happened at my first tire change (after booting the stock MEZ4's down the road) I attributed the headshake effect to being an AVON characteristic.

Interestingly enough, when I got the tire back from the Yamaha shop, they said that the wheel/tire combo balanced out perfectly with no weights at all. After taking the bike out for about 40 miles of riding, I noticed the headshake is entirely gone. Dead stable steering at any speed (only tested up to 70mph so far), coasting down while in neutral or in gear. I guess you get what you pay for. Has anyone else had a wheel/tire combo balance out perfectly with no headshake resulting?

 

[Timbo2015]

When I installed my front Avon, it also balanced out perfectly with no additional weights. I watched the guy at the shop do it on the computer spin balancer, then he ran it again, just to be sure.

Mine has the head shake. The head shake is worst at 40-45 mph and is gone by 50-55 mph. Did you check it at slower speeds? The 55 mph speed you mentioned is too high for it to appear.

In my opinion, the shake is mostly a characteristic of the tire and is unrelated to whether or not a few grams had to be added to balance the front wheel.

 

[SkooterG]

In my opinion, the shake is mostly a characteristic of the tire and is unrelated to whether or not a few grams had to be added to balance the front wheel.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I have had 4 Avon front tires. Only one showed slight headshake tendencies, and that was only during the last 1/3 of its life. Probably due to slight cupping. There are others factors leading to headshake. Perhaps the Avons are more sensitive to those factors being out of whack, but its not an inherent characteristic of the tire.

Balancing with no weight? Possible, but unlikely. This is why I balance my own tires. I don't care if it is a computer spin balancer, I am more accurate with my Marc Parnes balancer.

When I change tires, I always find the heavy spot of the new tire, then break the bead again, and move the tire so that the heavy part of the tire is opposite the heavy spot of the wheel. (You do realize the wheel is not in perfect balance don't you?) Does any shop do that? Nope.

Closest match I got on a front Avon required only about 7g to balance. Others have been up to about 30g for the front.

All these little things DO make a difference.

 

[skyway]

I believe the wiggle that gets described is due to the tread pattern of the front tire, or rain groove. I say this because there is no tread left on the rear, maybe not much of anything right now truth be told.

My current set of tires are shot and the front does not feel good right now. It has almost a constant wiggle in the handlebars that doesn't offer much inspiration riding with one hand. Also between the 40-50mph range it is greatly amplified.

 

[MCRIDER007]

Has anyone else had a wheel/tire combo balance out perfectly with no headshake resulting?

I have had a lot of new tires be in balance with the weights that came with the bike which leads me to believe that the weights are really balancing the wheel rather than the tire. If you do not have any head shake when the tires are new then later head shakes have to be attributed to tire wear -- and it might be the rear tire rather than the front. I have gotten rid of front tire shake several times by changing a worn out rear tire. I had a bad head shake on the OEM Z4 tire that completely went away when I put an Avon on the rear and 3,000 miles later when I finally changed the front I still did not have a head shake.

 

[Ignacio]

I believe the wiggle that gets described is due to the tread pattern of the front tire, or rain groove.

I disagree. Wiggle at low speed (less than 10 mph) is the tread pattern. I've had 2 Avon fronts and the second one when it was new had significant headshake. Slowing 50 to 35.

I even retorqued the head bearings thinking that was it. It wasn't.

Weird thing is that it's mellowed out now after about 4,000 miles.

IMO (nothing scientific mind you) Avons have a little more variation in their tires. Occasionally you get one that's closer to spec limits.

 

[skyway]

If you do not have any head shake when the tires are new then later head shakes have to be attributed to tire wear -- and it might be the rear tire rather than the front.  I have gotten rid of front tire shake several times by changing a worn out rear tire.  I had a bad head shake on the OEM Z4 tire that completely went away when I put an Avon on the rear and 3,000 miles later when I finally changed the front I still did not have a head shake.

This may well be the case that I have, but how do you explain constant head shake from a rear tire that resembles a babies back side?

 

[radman]

The Avon Wiggle is a low speed phenomena. Anything beyond that is tire, cg, neck bearing adjustment, or a combo of the three. IMHO of course.

 

[MCRIDER007]

This may well be the case that I have, but how do you explain constant head shake from a rear tire that resembles a babies back side?

I would use the same logic that you use to explain why you have rear tire that resembles a babies back side.

 

[skyway]

This may well be the case that I have, but how do you explain constant head shake from a rear tire that resembles a babies back side?

I would use the same logic that you use to explain why you have rear tire that resembles a babies back side.

If you can't see light through your tires, you didn't get your my money's worth IMO!

 

[MCRIDER007]

If you can't see light through your tires, you didn't get your my money's worth IMO! 

Skyway -- you are absolutely correct. The next time I take a tire off that still has a 32nd of tread left I am going to donate it to a worthy cause that has fallen on hard times and needs it more than I do -- like EZBoard. :clap:

 

[crewof1]

If you can't see light through your tires, you didn't get your my money's worth IMO! 

Skyway -- you are absolutely correct. The next time I take a tire off that still has a 32nd of tread left I am going to donate it to a worthy cause that has fallen on hard times and needs it more than I do -- like EZBoard. :clap:

:lmao: :rolf:

 

[skyway]

If you can't see light through your tires, you didn't get your my money's worth IMO! 

Skyway -- you are absolutely correct. The next time I take a tire off that still has a 32nd of tread left I am going to donate it to a worthy cause that has fallen on hard times and needs it more than I do -- like EZBoard. :clap:

Shame on you for throwing away practically brand new tires. Slicks rule! :haha:

I like to see my tires going bad, as other than a smile, its the only way that shows the level of fun I'm having.

 

[Windjammer]

I had headshake under deceleration with my Connie. Every single tire, until I put in Progressive fork springs. They raised the front end just a bit, and I never had it happen after that. Later I put the Progressive shock in the back too. Man what a difference. Can't wait to try out my new Wilbers gear on the Feej.

 

[fretbender]

Did you check it at slower speeds? The 55 mph speed you mentioned is too high for it to appear.

Yes, for speeds that slow I got up to about 60mph and shifted to neutral and took my hands off the handlebars until I got down to about 20 mph, which I felt was slow enough to shift into 2nd gear. . .quite stable all the way. Also, the 55 mph I mentioned was where I noticed the headshake on both tires previous to this one, so it looks like 55 is just above the speed for your particular situation. I suppose it's just luck of the draw, if you get the headshake, and if so, where it occurs. For all I know, I've got a nasty headshake waiting for me the next time I hit triple digits.

I'm thinking about going to mounting my own tires in any event. I hate to pay $27 per tire to have them mounted from here on out. I suppose the Marc Parnes balancer and Harbor Freight tire changer/bead breaker is the way to go, since cost most definitely IS an issue for me. I'd have everything paid for in a couple of years by avoiding paying someone else to do it.

 

[leebunyard]

I just turned 13,300 miles on the Avons on my '04 FJR and have never had any headshake/wobble from the day they were installed. Even with this mileage on the Avons, I can still take both hands off the grips at 60-70 mph (very carefully) and there is absolutely zero wobble decelerating all the way down to 25 mph. Nada. Very minor amount of cupping on the front tire compared to the moderately severe cupping I had on the OEM Bridgestones at the 10,000 mile point. I don't remember now what amount of weight my mechanic said they it took to balance the Avons when installed but I remember that it was very minimal. The bike just went over 24,000 miles and I've never touched the head bearings. Both the rear and front tires are almost at the wear bar points and I have new Avons in the garage ready to go on shortly. Have always run the tires at 42/42 psi. Most of my riding is solo hiway riding in the 75-95 mph range, with the remainder moderately aggressive riding in the twistees, very little city stop and go riding.

Lee in the Mountains of Northern California

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

I also have a VTX1300 Honda cruiser. With the spoke wheels they have had some wobble, mostly due to the bias ply tires for that bike, but by balancing the rim first then balancing the tire most of the wobbles and decel headshake have gone away. Anyone try balancing rim first then the trie?

 

[longnokr]

My wobble started when I replaced my worn out Stone with a perfectly true and balanced Avon. The Avon rep said it was a characteristic of this tire/bike combo and that he would gladly exchange the tire for a sport tire w/o the rain-grove to resolve my problem. I declined, it sucks but it isn't a huge deal for me, I just won't use Avons again. The worn out, badly cupped, noisey stone didn't shake at all, and yes the head bearings have been packed, checked and rechecked.