Gas Prices, Two Wheel Withdrawl, Other Ramblings -
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Just Plain Dave
Just Plain Dave
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I haven't seen any married hybrid drivers that look too happy either. :haha:
I own a Prius, and I love it -- so there. Do I get 60mpg, no. But few cars get in the real world what they get on the EPA loop. Remember that it isn't the manufacturer who says what the car is rated for, it is the EPA (well the manufacturer running the car in a prescribed by the EPA loop). Toyota specifically asked to be able to lower the numbers, and was denied that permission.
What do I get, in the high 40's in the Spring and Fall, low 40's in the winter and summer (heater and AC). If I go on a trip and do mostly highway driving, I get in the high 50's. The car rocks! That is better than I get on the FJR.
In terms of happiness, in the recent Consumer Reports survey, the Prius had the highest percentage of owner's that would "definately buy the car again" at something like 97%. It was the highest of all car, truck and SUV models.
When you consider mait. & tire costs, the Prius is much cheaper to operate per mile than my FJR.
For the batteries, they are warrented for 150,000 miles in several states, including CA, as they are considered part of the emissions control of the vehicle. Several people have over 100,000 miles on their car and the original battery is still powering it. On the Prius board there is one person who reports having his battery replaced due to fault, covered under warranty. Toyota says a new one would be $5,000 to $5,000 -- if you needed it. But that price will surely come down. You also have to know that you can get one real cheap out of a crashed Prius. There was one on EBay recently that went for $350 (there is no market since no one needs one) with supposedly less than 10,000 miles on it.
No one who has ridden in it, has failed to be impressed with it.
With normal ways of doing the accounting you will never recoup the cost of the hybrid divetrain thru normal gas savings. But what do you compare it to, there is no other small car on the road that has the features availible it has? You also have to take into account that the car spits out about 1/10 of the pollution of a Corrolla -- not exactly a poster child of a gas guzzler.
You also have, according to consumer reports, Intellichoice, and JD Power; one of the most reliable cars out there.
You are talking about a car that MSRP's for $26,000 fully loaded and offers: voice activated Navigation, 6 CD (in dash) player, 10 speaker stereo, ABS, EBD, traction control, stability control, side airbags and curtain airbags in the front and rear seat, voice activated climate control, HID headlamps, Bluetooth capability, hatchback carrying capacity, keyless entry and start, Homelink, and on...
what other vehicle offers that in that price range? Plus the benefits of the gas and emissions savings
Spike
What do I get, in the high 40's in the Spring and Fall, low 40's in the winter and summer (heater and AC). If I go on a trip and do mostly highway driving, I get in the high 50's. The car rocks! That is better than I get on the FJR.
In terms of happiness, in the recent Consumer Reports survey, the Prius had the highest percentage of owner's that would "definately buy the car again" at something like 97%. It was the highest of all car, truck and SUV models.
When you consider mait. & tire costs, the Prius is much cheaper to operate per mile than my FJR.
For the batteries, they are warrented for 150,000 miles in several states, including CA, as they are considered part of the emissions control of the vehicle. Several people have over 100,000 miles on their car and the original battery is still powering it. On the Prius board there is one person who reports having his battery replaced due to fault, covered under warranty. Toyota says a new one would be $5,000 to $5,000 -- if you needed it. But that price will surely come down. You also have to know that you can get one real cheap out of a crashed Prius. There was one on EBay recently that went for $350 (there is no market since no one needs one) with supposedly less than 10,000 miles on it.
No one who has ridden in it, has failed to be impressed with it.
With normal ways of doing the accounting you will never recoup the cost of the hybrid divetrain thru normal gas savings. But what do you compare it to, there is no other small car on the road that has the features availible it has? You also have to take into account that the car spits out about 1/10 of the pollution of a Corrolla -- not exactly a poster child of a gas guzzler.
You also have, according to consumer reports, Intellichoice, and JD Power; one of the most reliable cars out there.
You are talking about a car that MSRP's for $26,000 fully loaded and offers: voice activated Navigation, 6 CD (in dash) player, 10 speaker stereo, ABS, EBD, traction control, stability control, side airbags and curtain airbags in the front and rear seat, voice activated climate control, HID headlamps, Bluetooth capability, hatchback carrying capacity, keyless entry and start, Homelink, and on...
what other vehicle offers that in that price range? Plus the benefits of the gas and emissions savings
Spike
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twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
What, you mean transgenders? :blink:
:haha: IME, I've seen more Hybrids on the hook than their percentage of all vehicles would warrant. Makes me kinda hesitant to consider Hybrids - at this point. Also, you have the long term question of battery disposal.
Where'd I put that design for the 100 mpg carburetor? Hmmm, I know it's here somewhere...
gr8eyes
Well-known member
TWN is correct on the mileage for the prius. My dad got one in December and has been a bit disappointed in the mileage. He's averaged 46 in town and 40 on the highway.
I'm confused about the diesel in CA. Why would the eco geeks let a diesel Jettya be sold and not a Passat?
I'm confused about the diesel in CA. Why would the eco geeks let a diesel Jettya be sold and not a Passat?
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
We (the US) have not yet begun using the low sulfur diesel that the Euros use. Hence, we are stuck with the 'old' tech diesels that require (edited to say: are designed to run on...) the higher levels of sulfur. Consequently, these don't burn clean enough to meet CARB's standard of average emissions/fleet (CARB's standards are tougher the the EPA's Tier 1 regs). So, VW had to decide which cars would get the diesel. Since the Passat is/was the heaviest of their fleet, they gave the motor to the lighter New Beetle and Jetta. Lighter cars burn less, pollute less so they can sell more up to their 'pollution quota'. IIRC, VW's California allotment of diesels is around 20,000/ model year. I'm not sure of the mix, though.
Course when Tier Whateverthefucklevelisnext kicks in next year we will be using the same diesel as the Euros, so here's hoping....
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HIGHLANDER
naewittyshitepostedeere
They don't allow either one the last two years. They stopped allowing the Passat in 2002 and the Jetta in 2003. The VW emmisions are less than a powerstroke diesel, yet they allow the Ford to be imported.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Beetles, Golfs and Jettas never left. Just the Passat.They don't allow either one the last two years. They stopped allowing the Passat in 2002 and the Jetta in 2003. The VW emmisions are less than a powerstroke diesel, yet they allow the Ford to be imported.
Clicky
Also, I think(?) that the Powerstroke is available on the F250 and up. I'm not sure if that falls into the 'light duty' category that counts in the 'pollution quota'.
gr8eyes
Well-known member
OK, I assumed from the verbage above that the Jetta was still being sold with the diesel. I Just read last night in the latest Road and Track that there won't be any diesels sold in 07 for resonsTWN outlined. I guess thats unless we start getting low burning sulphur diesel. ?
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Hmmm, unless they've bumped the effective date for Tier II implementation, we go to low sulfur diesel next year. That means we can run current Euro diesels of which there are scads.
I'd better go grab a copy of R & T...
I'd better go grab a copy of R & T...
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gr8eyes
Well-known member
TWN I may have mis understood what the article was saying I'll look again this evening
Just Plain Dave
Just Plain Dave
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According to Clicky, the day I got my license (10/20/53) the average family income was $4,706, and a gallon of gas was 29 cents. The average family income on 01/01/02 was $71,032.
71,032/4,706=15.094..... So a gallon of gas would have to cost $4.37 to be equivalent to the price of a gallon of gas in 1953.
[SIZE=8pt]So why doesn't this info make me feel any better about paying $2.50 for a gallon of gas????[/SIZE]
71,032/4,706=15.094..... So a gallon of gas would have to cost $4.37 to be equivalent to the price of a gallon of gas in 1953.
[SIZE=8pt]So why doesn't this info make me feel any better about paying $2.50 for a gallon of gas????[/SIZE]
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
No worries, Glenn. Still, I'm going to get that issue as I've been following this diesel issue for a while now. With the proliferation of fast food outlets here in SoCal, I'm keen on this oil to veggie oil conversion...
In LA the other day in heavy I 405 traffic. Something smelled real yummy and I got real hungry for a burger and fries. That's when I noticed an older Jetta in front of me with vanity plates that read: FRN FRY
In LA the other day in heavy I 405 traffic. Something smelled real yummy and I got real hungry for a burger and fries. That's when I noticed an older Jetta in front of me with vanity plates that read: FRN FRY
fretbender
Well-known member
Might have something to do with driving a WHOLE lot more than we (read: you old farts) did in 1953.According to Clicky, the day I got my license (10/20/53) the average family income was $4,706, and a gallon of gas was 29 cents. The average family income on 01/01/02 was $71,032.
71,032/4,706=15.094..... So a gallon of gas would have to cost $4.37 to be equivalent to the price of a gallon of gas in 1953.
[SIZE=8pt]So why doesn't this info make me feel any better about paying $2.50 for a gallon of gas????[/SIZE]
The last I read, USLD will go on sale to the public 9/01/06.
Bring on the new diesels! Honda and BMW will start selling diesels in the states.
It's rumored Subaru might as well. I'll trade my Jetta wagon TDi for a forester turbo-diesel in a heartbeat.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Stay away from that one. IIRC, it's motor is sourced from, gulp, Italy and it's mileage ain't that great.
Sorry, Stef, but the Italians make sexy, albeit mechanically crappy machines... (Hell, even the Fiat big wigs drive Audis BMWs and Mercs!)
I don't know how many you see "on the hook", as I can't recall seeing any, ever. It may be that if you have seen any, they stand out more. But like I said, Consumer Reports, JD Power, and Intellichoice all mark the Prius specifically as one of the most reliable cars on the market. Way, way above average. Very impressive for a new model unveiling (the 2004 Prius shares very little withe the 2003 and earlier model)
The overwhelming number of the posters to the prius board have never had a lick of trouble. You do occassionally maybe see idiots that run out of gas, thinking they can go on electric (several people report being told this by their dealers).
The overall environmental imprint of the Prius is tiny, even with the big bad batteries -- and they are a concern. But Toyota has already set up a recycling program for when they do start to come back. They also utilize partially recycled plastics for the interior, as well as marked all plastic parts for recycling at the end of its useful life. They also limited the amount of mixed plastics used, as those are difficult to recycle usefully. The recyclable content is very high on the Prius.
And you can get 50 MPG in regular driving, you just have to drive it carefully. The first couple of weeks I owned it, I was always in the high 50's, because I was a slave to the dash readout of current mileage. I would fill up only after 500 miles and would put between 10 and 11 gallons in. Heck on one trip from Minden NV to Livermore CA, I got 73.8 miles to the gallon! This on a trip of slightly over 200 miles. Admitedly most of it is downhill, but still. We were a little handicaped in the begining as the battery was near 0 -- I had left the car powered up but not running while I loaded it up and we said our goodbyes. Lesson learned.
If the cars were so horrible, there wouldn't be a waiting list in most parts of the country for one 2 years after its debut. 2 years. You rarely see even a used one on the used car lots, or on EBay, and when you do it is often someone trying to sell it at a profit. And they only started advertising them a short time ago. Toyota hoped to sell 20,000 2004 Prii in the US the first year and the "American" manufactures laughed at them. Openly scoffed at its unveiling. In the first 18 months they sold 88,000 cars. So how bad can they be? What other car has had a wait list 2 years after it unveiling? People were paying $5k and $6k over sticker. On a $20 - 25k car, that is a lot.
Heck Ford even went to Toyota for some input to get the Escape out as soon as they could.
People are just bitter because once again the Japanese manufactures did it better.
Spike
The overwhelming number of the posters to the prius board have never had a lick of trouble. You do occassionally maybe see idiots that run out of gas, thinking they can go on electric (several people report being told this by their dealers).
The overall environmental imprint of the Prius is tiny, even with the big bad batteries -- and they are a concern. But Toyota has already set up a recycling program for when they do start to come back. They also utilize partially recycled plastics for the interior, as well as marked all plastic parts for recycling at the end of its useful life. They also limited the amount of mixed plastics used, as those are difficult to recycle usefully. The recyclable content is very high on the Prius.
And you can get 50 MPG in regular driving, you just have to drive it carefully. The first couple of weeks I owned it, I was always in the high 50's, because I was a slave to the dash readout of current mileage. I would fill up only after 500 miles and would put between 10 and 11 gallons in. Heck on one trip from Minden NV to Livermore CA, I got 73.8 miles to the gallon! This on a trip of slightly over 200 miles. Admitedly most of it is downhill, but still. We were a little handicaped in the begining as the battery was near 0 -- I had left the car powered up but not running while I loaded it up and we said our goodbyes. Lesson learned.
If the cars were so horrible, there wouldn't be a waiting list in most parts of the country for one 2 years after its debut. 2 years. You rarely see even a used one on the used car lots, or on EBay, and when you do it is often someone trying to sell it at a profit. And they only started advertising them a short time ago. Toyota hoped to sell 20,000 2004 Prii in the US the first year and the "American" manufactures laughed at them. Openly scoffed at its unveiling. In the first 18 months they sold 88,000 cars. So how bad can they be? What other car has had a wait list 2 years after it unveiling? People were paying $5k and $6k over sticker. On a $20 - 25k car, that is a lot.
Heck Ford even went to Toyota for some input to get the Escape out as soon as they could.
People are just bitter because once again the Japanese manufactures did it better.
Spike
I'm tellin' ya, the diesel is the way to go, at least with the cagers. We have a Diesel Passat and a 1-ton Dually Chevrolet with a Duramax Diesel. Great milage on both, great power and my wife won't have anything else now. We started with a diesel Jetta.
But try to tell Detroit that. When GM came out with the Hummer H3, no diesel! The reviews on the vehicle called it underpowered. So I write GM to ask about a diesel for the H3. Their first response said "no diesel and no plans for a diesel". I then pointed out that they offer a diesel in the european version of the H3 NOW! Their second response was "we're thinking about it". What happened to no plans? I swear they just want to tell us what to buy. :angry:
But try to tell Detroit that. When GM came out with the Hummer H3, no diesel! The reviews on the vehicle called it underpowered. So I write GM to ask about a diesel for the H3. Their first response said "no diesel and no plans for a diesel". I then pointed out that they offer a diesel in the european version of the H3 NOW! Their second response was "we're thinking about it". What happened to no plans? I swear they just want to tell us what to buy. :angry:
Carnifex
Ka-Chow!
We just got a Passat Wagon back in the Spring, and I tried to talk the wife into the Diesel, but no-go. I'm happy with the 1.8T, still gets good mileage, but I was hoping for great..
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