Gen 1 won't transition off idle (sometimes)

[Pete Bansen]

Okay, here's the situation. 2005 Gen 1 has always run like a top. I rode a little over 100 miles today to have lunch with my daughter for Valentine's Day - no problems, running 65-80 the whole way. When I got to slow traffic on the west side of Sacramento, I started to lane-split and the bike didn't want to rev off of idle, as soon as I started to engage the clutch and increase the throttle, it would die.

Initially (as in the first iteration), it gave a very slow starter spin (and I thought, 'oh, crap - the battery is toast..."), but then it started normally and in subsequent starts, the starter spun at normal speed. There would also be sort of a "chirp" noise as it stalled (that's the best I can do - I was wearing earplugs and there was traffic all around me) That first time (I think) it also had some sort of electrical issue, because the clock reset as did the trip odometer. I could start it and then rev it somewhat and engage the clutch and then it would ride normally - no issues at freeway speeds, but then I got to a traffic light and it died as I was downshifting, but then restarted and would ride OK, but just didn't have any transition off-idle: had to rev while engaging the clutch.

I pulled the cover off to make sure the battery terminals were tight and they were. Initially as I left after lunch, it ran fine even down low and I was encouraged that just tightening the terminals a hair had solved the problem, but after a few blocks (again - pulling away from a light) the thing died and would restart and get underway only with higher than normal revs. Rode it the 115 miles home and it seemed to be using more than average fuel (could be my imagination, but I think not). Now I have pulled the covers and taken all the battery connections off and cleaned them thoroughly (although they were pretty dang clean to start with), reinstalled and tightened.

Voltage underway was the normal 14.2 volts on the Datel meter. It shows 13.2 initially when turned on but not started, which gradually drops to about 12.7 (which, IIRC, is normal). Always on a Battery Tender when parked in the winter. I thought is might be an old fuel issue at first, but filled the tank with fresh fuel almost immediately after the first stalling incident and there seems no change. The "will idle and will ride, just won't pick up the load from idle" thing is perplexing. I'm thinking it's an electrical thing, because it seems to run totally normally at speed, but I guess there could be something funky with the fuel injection causing the issue.

Any ideas/suggestions??

Pete Bansen

Truckee, California

 

[HotRodZilla]

On the top, it sounds like you need a new battery. I know it started normally a couple times, but the slow hot start and the reset of the clock and trip meter are tell-tale signs.

 

[Pete Bansen]

On the top, it sounds like you need a new battery. I know it started normally a couple times, but the slow hit start and the reset of the clock and trip meter are tell-tale signs.

Okay - I like that suggestion, because it's cheap and easily implemented. Do you think the battery would cause the stalling issue after being ridden at freeway speeds for well over an hour? 6,000 foot change in elevation? I agree with the slow starter speed and the resets being weak-battery benchmarks - had that happen once before several years ago, but I don't remember if it was with this battery or the preceding one, but then the bike started and ran and there was none of this other drama.

Thanks,

Pete

 

[HotRodZilla]

Not sure about the freeway speed stalling. These bikes are weird as Hell when the batteries are dying. When my OEM battery was at its end, the check engine light came on, and every now and then, I'd get this weird "buck," like a strong surge. Replaced the battery, and neither of those things has happened again.

Either way, I'd start there.

 

[Pete Bansen]

Not sure about the freeway speed stalling. These bikes are weird as Hell when the batteries are dying. When my OEM battery was at its end, the check engine light came on, and every now and then, I'd get this weird "buck," like a strong surge. Replaced the battery, and neither of those things has happened again.
Either way, I'd start there.

Thanks - it didn't stall at freeway speed, it did after I had stopped with stop and go traffic, then attempted to start again while lane-splitting. Let the clutch out, bike was moving, rolled on some throttle and it stalled.

But thanks - it's probably about time for a battery and that would be one element that could be eliminated as a potential issue.

 

[ionbeam]

The clock and trip odometer are caused by low voltage only. This may not be a root cause of your stalling, it may be some secondary thing that occurred during the stall/restart sequences. My first suspicion would be the TPS, especially if the stalling happens only to a hot engine. About the only way you can determine this is to put a volt meter on the TPS when it's hot and measure the 5 volt signal line. At idle it should be a rock solid 0.650 to 0.750 volts and increase stably and linearly as the throttle is turned up. A TPS that only fails when hot will almost always pass the diAG test. If your engine runs fine everyplace but idle and the engine speed doesn't go up until the throttle is turned significantly strongly indicates a TPS.

Another possibility is the 'wax motor' and the linkages on the fuel rail which are part of the choke system may be sticking or going bad.

It's very unusual for the engine speed to simply not follow the throttle movement.

 

[BobCo]

Your problem seems very similar to what I went through last year on my 2008.- https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/165555-died-coming-off-idle-3-bars-on-temp-guage/ . I hope you can find a solution cheaper/easier than I did.

 

[TomInPA]

Just to review the obvious, what is your warmed up idle speed? You can easily use 1100 RPM as a set idle speed, and it should prevent any stalling. If the idle speed is properly set, and the bike still stalls, then we go to fuel or electric as a cause.

The 2005 had a NHTSA recall for the throttle position sensor. If that service was not performed on your motorcycle that is the likely cause, and is still free to replace. Check with the dealer as a national database of warranty fulfillment is maintained and available based on your bike's VIN. https://wemakeitsafer.com/vehicle-recall/Yamaha-Fjr1300-Recall-3470627-2005#RecalledProductInformation

 

[Pete Bansen]

My first suspicion would be the TPS, especially if the stalling happens only to a hot engine. About the only way you can determine this is to put a volt meter on the TPS when it's hot and measure the 5 volt signal line. At idle it should be a rock solid 0.650 to 0.750 volts and increase stably and linearly as the throttle is turned up. A TPS that only fails when hot will almost always pass the diAG test. If your engine runs fine everyplace but idle and the engine speed doesn't go up until the throttle is turned significantly strongly indicates a TPS.
Another possibility is the 'wax motor' and the linkages on the fuel rail which are part of the choke system may be sticking or going bad.

It's very unusual for the engine speed to simply not follow the throttle movement.

Thanks. I wouldn't say that the engine was hot - it was at operating temperature and had been for well over an hour - it was a coolish day and I was probably at two bars on the display. Will check the TPS - that was my first thought after reading some of the threads on here. I'm the second or third owner and I don't know if the TPS recall work was done or not. Can the TPS voltage be checked with the key on but the bike not running?

Just to be clear, when this failure manifests, the bike WILL idle fine, but as soon as the throttle is rolled off idle, it dies. If you roll the throttle on more rapidly, revving to, say, 3 - 4,000 RPM, you can engage the clutch and ride - what it will not allow you to do is smoothly and slowly raise the RPMs from idle while engaging the clutch - if you do that, it stalls. It is also inconsistent - some of the time it runs fine and will allow a normal throttle roll-on and clutch engagement, but some of the time it will not. I'm going to experiment some today - yesterday I was mostly concerned with getting home and I could not be as observant and detailed as I would have like while I was trying not to get run over on I-80.

 

[ionbeam]

Wordmanship. When I said hot, I meant the normal operating temperature type hot, as opposed to a cold engine. You can call a dealer service department and give them your VIN and they can tell you if the TPS replacement was done. If the TPS is just starting to fail it may not cause problems every time and may need a good heat soak (normal operating temperature) before it fails. The TPS will fail in a fairly narrow rpm band and let the engine run just fine above and below that point.

The engine will need to be at operating temperature and running to do a TPS voltage check. Take a look at troubleshooting and how the TPS fails. Edit to add: You can check the TPS voltage with just the key on, but the TPS probably won't be expressing the failure mode like that, it needs to be at full operating temperature and the engine running to express the failure mode.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh...I didn't get the bike was stalling as you rolled on the throttle. Reading comprehension is key.

Yeah, maybe TPS, which is weird. We've seemed to have a LOT of those lately.

 

[grumpypoo]

It might not be a bad idea to sync the throttle bodies.

I'd take a look at your plugs too (doubt this is the problem, but it wont hurt!).

I'd also look into the fuel injectors as well. The reason I say this is because if we remember our carburetor days what was wrong whenever the bike would stall after take off and the bike was warm? Dirty carbs.

Just throwing very easy ideas at you.

 

[Pete Bansen]

I pulled everything off the battery and cleaned all of the connections very thoroughly the other day. They all looked clean, but I polished them with emery cloth and fine sandpaper, then reassembled. I get 14.3 volts running, 12.7 to 12.8 with the bike off, which I have found to be a good nominal voltage for a battery in good condition. The battery is a Motobatt AGM and is 2 1/2 years old, so it should be OK. I did a test ride and the bike was fine, so it may have been a minor electrical glitch (but I'm not banking on that).

Called Yamaha and checked whether either of the TPS recalls had been done. They had not (Yamaha showed one TPS recall for this bike, BTW). I called the dealer in Reno and they will order the part and call me when they have it and can do the work, so hopefully that and the electrical clean-up will solve my problem. I'm going to have the valves checked and will probably replace the plugs and do a throttle-body sync at the same time, but right now my independent mechanic is just working on snowmobiles, so that may be a springtime project.

 

[odot]

Make sure your tyres are filled with nitrogen...............any air imbalance will affect fuel/air distribution at low idle speeds.

 

[Pete Bansen]

Make sure your tyres are filled with nitrogen...............any air imbalance will affect fuel/air distribution at low idle speeds.

Ah, crap - I think they're only at about 80% nitrogen right now. That may be the problem...

 

[grumpypoo]

You can do the plugs and TBS! Don't wait it takes maybe 15 minutes?

Valve check is easy if you wanna drop the motor it's easy in the bike as well just don't knock it outta time.