Got a ticket today

[RadioHowie]

Coming home from work today, wet roads, heavy traffic, hit a section of road typically packed 4 wide and 10 deep with cages. Coming up on a right turn to my last leg to home with 30-40 cars waiting in line. I'm coming up on a white Lexus ES250 who comes to a screeching halt, forcing me to brake HARD. ABS kicks in and I come to a stop about 10 feet behind the Lexus.

Almost immediately, I hear a loud slithering noise, like a giant snake coming up behind me. Look in the rearview and see a Ford Fusion coming up behind me FAST! I brace myself and WHAM, get rear-ended HARD! Fortunately, I took the wife's Civic to work today. I'm rammed into the back of the Lexus and felt like I was kicked by a dinosaur!

Cops finally show up, as do the EMS techs. I take a ride to the ER, because I'm feeling a little woozie, and my back hurts. Leave the cops my keys and driver's license. They'll catch up to me at the ER.

2 hours later, a cop shows up in the exam room, hands me my license, then hands me a ticket....FOR FOLLOWING TOO CLOSE! I nearly shouted at him "what is this for? I was at a complete stop and the girl who hit me drove me in to the Lexus!" "Well," the cop pontificates, "from the amount of damage to your car, I determined that you ran into the car in front of you, then the car behind you hit you."

I'm PISSED! And tell him so. I was at a complete stop and the bonehead girl hammered me into the car in front of me! No dice, he says...his "experience" says the amount of damage to the front of my car, a 2003 Civic, could only have been done by me hitting the car on the fly.

I try to keep my poise, and tell him "no...I was completely stopped..." but he ain't budging.

I'm going to court on this one. Anyone got any tips they can pass along to a brother?

Oh, it's the first day in about 10 months I DIDN'T take one of my bikes to work. I can't tell you how glad I made THAT decision! I would have been toast....badly burned toast, if I'd been on a bike when dumb-dumb hit me.

 

[CrabbyJack]

You need to get yourself a good lawyer cause you'll be on the hook, in most states, for damage to the Lexus and injuries to the driver. If/when this gets to court, ask the cop where he was when the accident occurred and what makes him an accident reconstruction expert. Oh, and have an accident reconstruction expert with you. You need to vigorously fight that ticket!

CrabbyJack

 

[CAJW]

No mention of what type of area it happened in, but see if any security cams happened to be pointed toward you when the "incident" happened. Probably no such luck, but worth looking to see if anywhere in the area a camera exists and might show the Fusion driver was texting, talking, etc... that might help prove your point. Post an add on Craigs list asking for witnesses, (might offer a free ride on a FJR as incentive ) Good luck, sounds like you got a raw deal!

 

[dingofarmer]

Coming home from work today, wet roads, heavy traffic, hit a section of road typically packed 4 wide and 10 deep with cages. Coming up on a right turn to my last leg to home with 30-40 cars waiting in line. I'm coming up on a white Lexus ES250 who comes to a screeching halt, forcing me to brake HARD. ABS kicks in and I come to a stop about 10 feet behind the Lexus.

Almost immediately, I hear a loud slithering noise, like a giant snake coming up behind me. Look in the rearview and see a Ford Fusion coming up behind me FAST! I brace myself and WHAM, get rear-ended HARD! Fortunately, I took the wife's Civic to work today. I'm rammed into the back of the Lexus and felt like I was kicked by a dinosaur!

Cops finally show up, as do the EMS techs. I take a ride to the ER, because I'm feeling a little woozie, and my back hurts. Leave the cops my keys and driver's license. They'll catch up to me at the ER.

2 hours later, a cop shows up in the exam room, hands me my license, then hands me a ticket....FOR FOLLOWING TOO CLOSE! I nearly shouted at him "what is this for? I was at a complete stop and the girl who hit me drove me in to the Lexus!" "Well," the cop pontificates, "from the amount of damage to your car, I determined that you ran into the car in front of you, then the car behind you hit you."

Honestly from someone who was traffic certified, it will be hard to argue, unless you had a witness, but the chances of the lexus driver noticing you or someone in another lane is slim, however it sounds like you were in the clear, after all we don't all allow a 3 car length gap while at a stop light.

Im sorry to hear about the judgement from the PO. His explanation is BS. it does not take much to push a honda civic into another vehicle. What do you think the speed was of the other car that hit you in the rear?

 

[HotRodZilla]

That's total bullshit. There is no way that cop can tell if you were stopped or moving when you got hit by the damage to the cars? How do I know this? I'm a qualified reconstructionist. We are not cheap by the way. I used to charge $150 per hour wth a two hour minmum for civil stuff.

I can almost guarantee you this dip-shit had no training beyond basic academy stuff. The scene would tell the story...Not the cars.

I would have investigated it by skid marks and points of impact. This is pretty Simplified, but a Civic is about 12 feet long +/-. Where you were rearended is POI #1. Where you hit the Lexus is POI#2. If there is more than the length of your car between those two points, you hadn't hit anything prior to being hit...Make sense?

Depending on where it happened, I'd get out there with a camera and get some pictures, as this dumbasses citation will cost you a bundle in insurance premiums.

Sorry about this Howie. We're not all fuckheads.

 

[wfooshee]

The front end damage will have the momentum of the Fusion driving it, and there is simply no way in Hell this guy can say you hit first because of the level of damage. You hit the car, then were hit from behind, or you stopped, were hit from behind and driven into the vehicle ahead. Same effect. The front of your car has 2 cars' worth of force shoving it into the Lexus.

It might even be possible to tell of your car was in a dive (hard brakes shit-I-hope-I-can-stop panic stop) or at normal at-rest height by examing where it "fits" against the other car.

Also, since you were stopped, there may be skid marks from where you were shoved from your at-rest condition. Since your car has ABS there would have been no skid marks even if you were panic stopping. An ABS-equipped car shoved from rest may leave a skid trail, though; how much of one, if any, depends on how hard you were holding the brake. Any skid mark that matches your car's tread width and track width would thus show that you were actually stopped, and hit from behind. Even if you didn't have ABS, the skid marks from your car being shoved would be heaviest at the point of first impact, and fade as you approach the second impact. They would be heavier still if you jammed the brake because you saw this thing approaching in the mirror, a natural reaction.

If you can prove you were stopped and then shoved, I see no reasonable way you can be held liable for anything on the Lexus. OTOH, recent experience has tought me the difference between the literal law and a just result in Florida.

 

[dingofarmer]

The front end damage will have the momentum of the Fusion driving it, and there is simply no way in Hell this guy can say you hit first because of the level of damage. You hit the car, then were hit from behind, or you stopped, were hit from behind and driven into the vehicle ahead. Same effect. The front of your car has 2 cars' worth of force shoving it into the Lexus.

It might even be possible to tell of your car was in a dive (hard brakes shit-I-hope-I-can-stop panic stop) or at normal at-rest height by examing where it "fits" against the other car.

Also, since you were stopped, there may be skid marks from where you were shoved from your at-rest condition. Since your car has ABS there would have been no skid marks even if you were panic stopping. An ABS-equipped car shoved from rest may leave a skid trail, though; how much of one, if any, depends on how hard you were holding the brake. Any skid mark that matches your car's tread width and track width would thus show that you were actually stopped, and hit from behind. Even if you didn't have ABS, the skid marks from your car being shoved would be heaviest at the point of first impact, and fade as you approach the second impact. They would be heavier still if you jammed the brake because you saw this thing approaching in the mirror, a natural reaction.

If you can prove you were stopped and then shoved, I see no reasonable way you can be held liable for anything on the Lexus. OTOH, recent experience has tought me the difference between the literal law and a just result in Florida.

They are not just in florida, Colorado trys to play a similar game also, if you have the time you can fight it, it would be interesting to hear if the expert officer can articulate how he knows that the damage is correct for the specific situation in relation to your honda civic, and provide data or specific accident cases that are similar to yours. You did the right thing by getting checked out medical wise. Id be curious if he even did any TA analysis of the event. Chances are that there is little documentation or photos. The other guys are right, there is all kinds of stuff to determine what occurred and what did not. Good luck and please don't hold it against all LEOs.

 

[dcarver]

Damn it Howie... if it weren't for bad luck..

 

[Zorlac]

Does a "a 2003 Civic" have an ECU data collector that can have vehicle speed and other parameters recalled from it?

Sorry to read about this Howie, I hope it works out OK in the end.

 

[lonerider]

If the scatterbrained skirt in the Lexus was young and good looking, it's not hard to see how the cop came to his conclusion. Good luck; hope you beat the rap.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Glad you didn't ride your GenI....you might not be here to type this.

Hope you get it sorted out. :clapping:

BTW, Are you gonna blame your cirrosis of the liver damage on the other guy, too?

 

[Thug]

You know I have may mates who are coppers...I'm pro Copper and they cop (hehe) a lot of shit...but this fucking idiot gives the rest a bad name....arrogant beyond belief, **** him and his opinion lets play...On the balance of probabilities and the facts... period. what a complete fuckstick.

 

[Fred W]

I'd check with the Lexus driver first. They should have noticed that when you first made contact with them that you had already been plowed from behind by the girl.

The sound and imapct feeling to the Lexus would have been different too, as there would have been two distinct impacts to the Lexus in the cops version.

In your version there would have been a two crunch sounds, but only one impact feeling to the Lexus.

 

[beemerdons]

Damn it Howie... if it weren't for bad luck..

+1, Gunny; very sorry to hear about this RH, just a damn shame!

 

[Auburn]

I wonder if the cop is basing his "analysis" on the lexus driver giving some statement to the affect that she thought you hit her. Maybe she did not realize that you were hit into her by another car. Get a good lawyer.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The Ford hitting you means he had insufficient stopping distance. That's an almost guaranteed citation around here and the only question becomes who else had insufficient distance. The cop assumed that you did.

A few other ideas and I see some others have suggested similar, all of which are perishable and will need to be done fast:

See if there are skid marks on the pavement that you can photo. Skids from a stop begin differently than those of braking. Don't be surprised if there are none, as many folks so lightly rest their foot on the brake at a light, but you saw the truck coming so maybe tensed and will be lucky.

Get a statement from the Lexus owner about HOW LONG they had been sitting still and whether there were two thunks. Unless he/she wants to totally back up that you were at a full stop and pushed forward, nothing else matters from them, as they are the hittee.

Then hit the gas stations and other stores on all 4 sides of the intersection to see if there is a security camera.

Align the heights of where the initial contact marks are on that Ford's bumber and back of your car AND measure the heights while sitting stil. Do this fast, because insurance companies promise fast repairs these days. The point is that during braking the nose will go down and tail goes up. Showing the heights ought to show the Ford braking hard and you at a dead stop when he hit. Be careful on using ONLY initial contact point of the aft most vehicles in the que, as the truck probably forced your nose down when you went into the Lexus.

 

[Pale Rider 07]

Personally Howie, I think you just got screwed. My advice? Drive the car to court. Find the officer's patrol car, accelerate to about 25mph and slam into the back of his vehicle. If you're gonna get charged with it, you might as well get the satisfaction!!!! :lol2:

Glad you are ok otherwise.

 

[FastSpy]

Personally Howie, I think you just got screwed. My advice? Drive the car to court. Find the officer's patrol car, accelerate to about 25mph and slam into the back of his vehicle. If you're gonna get charged with it, you might as well get the satisfaction!!!! :lol2:

Glad you are ok otherwise.

and make sure you push his car into the one in front of him so you can get out and ask him why he rear-ended that car he hit.

 

[64Y80]

Howie, did the air bag deploy?