Harley's Plight

[SacramentoMike]

I was chasing a link posted today that led me to an unrelated story discussing the spot Harley Davidson has put themselves into with their lack of innovation and marketing strategy. The article (part of a blog I guess) is entitled "Harley’s lost generations: Failure to reinvent loses the After Boomers."

It's a little long, but very interesting, I thought. It boils down to saying that Harley has not kept up with the wants of younger riders in several important ways, and as a result, their potential market has both aged and become more isolated from the mainstream of riders. They compared it to the Oldsmobile--who tried to win back younger drivers with the "It's not your father's Oldsmobile" campaign a while back.

Not only have the technology (and the look of the product) stayed where they've been for decades, they have failed to "place" the brand where it appeals to younger riders. Lara Croft--and all video game riders--are on sportbikes. Harleys are too closely identified with the 1%'ers (not the "Occupy Wall Street" protesters). Villains like the Sons of Anarchy ride them. Or else the orthodontists and lawyers who trailer their bikes to Sturgis once a year--the Wild Hogs. Schwartzenegger rides a Harley. Younger stars who ride will more likely be on a Ducati.

I really didn't take much joy in reading that Harley--"the" American motorcycle--is circling the drain. It's a damn shame they don't make something that's a lot more competitive and a better value.

 

[steveoreno]

It seems like a pretty fair assessment of Harley's plight to me. The G/F and I were browsing in a Harley shop in Illinois the other day and a young saleman was working us pretty good until I finally told her I had just purchased a new FJR and I continued to tell her about all of the standard bells and whistles that came with my Feejer and She was somewhat dumbstruck. The article is correct, Harley doesn't "get it" and probably never will.

 

[Spud]

Give 'em a break. They've been fairly innovative recently. They're using gore-tex, kevlar, some heated gear...... decals and emblems for ford trucks, sponsoring the UFC....

Wait...are we talking about the bikes??? Oh, then yeah, you're right

 

[lonerider]

With emissions standards continually tightening, they might have painted themselves into a corner with their adherence to the air cooled twin motor. I chuckled when I saw the lengths they went to to "hide" the radiator on the V Rod; if the day comes that they have to liquid cool their big twins, they might experience a loss of sales from their core group. In today's market, a manufacturer has to do more than sue a competitor over the "patented" sound of a motor to stay in the game, just MHO.

 

[garyahouse]

Sad part about Harley's struggles is that there are a lot of hard working Americans that are currently losing hours and may one day lose their jobs because of corporate reluctance and/or misjudgment. As much as I have no use for Harleys myself, it is an American company providing local jobs. It would be a shame to see them go under (did I just SAY that?).

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Oddly enough I just read that Polaris has a running fully functioning Indian. They purchased the rights to Indian because that is the only brand name that can compete with Harley Davidson. The New 111 Thunder Stroke V-twin is indeed a beautiful chunk of iron. Polaris is gambling big on going head to head with Harley. Even though Harley may have a dying group it is still the largest motorcycle buying group in the U.S. right now.

For whatever reason, most Harley riders really seem to have no idea how slow their bikes are in comparison. When I show a Harley guy the actual measured 1/4 mile times they never believe it. There has to be a mistake, the test rider did not know how to shift it right, on and on. Reality is not part of the Harley mystique.

All that said, there are a few Harleys I would like to own. I just don't want to pay that much money for one.

 

[Fred W]

Harley is American. I get that. Buying in support of one's own country is good for the local economy. I get that too.

I might even do it too, if there was something actually worth buying.

What I don't get is why people willfully overlook the clear inferiority of these machines (in every possible regard), and on top of that are willing to pay a premium for the privilege to be part if that club.

Well, it's not really that I don't get it, I actually do. These people are the easily manipulated modern day sheep who refuse to do any amount of personal investigation into the products that they are preparing to plunk down their hard earned cash down on.

So maybe if they go under it's not such a big loss. Darwin's theory applies to business evolution too.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Harley is American. I get that. Buying in support of one's own country is good for the local economy. I get that too. I might even do it too, if there was something actually worth buying.

What I don't get is why people willfully overlook the clear inferiority of these machines (in every possible regard), and on top of that are willing to pay a premium for the privilege to be part if that club.

Well, it's not really that I don't get it, I actually do. These people are the easily manipulated modern day sheep who refuse to do any amount of personal investigation into the products that they are preparing to plunk down their hard earned cash down on.

So maybe if they go under it's not such a big loss. Darwin's theory applies to business evolution too.

Sad to say it's not just about Harley's. Where did America go?

Where are the Lee Iacoca's and Henry Fords?

 

[BkerChuck]

As a part time employee of a Harley Davidson dealership, I get an even better view of some of what you guys are talking about. For a long time Harley has played the "made in America" card as one of their sole reasons why you should buy their product. I can honestly say that in the years I've held my side job with the dealer, I've seen some pretty substantial improvements in both the quality and features they are offering. I'm not saying they're on a par with everyone else, just that for what they are they've gotten better. Many of you probably don't even realize some of the outsourcing that Harley Davidson Motor Company has done over the last 5-10 years. Cast wheels, as are found on MANY of their bikes were made in Australia for probably close to 20 years. They were produced for them by a company that invested heavily in tooling, training, and resources to get the Harley contract. About 2 years ago, in December, Harley shut down that plant, left go about 200 workers and moved production to China! That's right, China! I live near York, PA which is the home of the Harley Davidson final assembly plant. For many years Harley Davidson operated their own trucks and had their own fleet of drivers who took a lot of pride in their jobs. About 5 years ago Harley corporate decided it would be cheaper to farm out those driving jobs, 77 in all, to an outside contractor. My brother in law was one of those drivers. The replacement outfit, who use Harley Davidson's trailers, they sold off their trucks, drop off damaged bikes on a regular basis. This is something that was never a problem in the past. I happen to own 2 Buell motorcycles. I think we all know what happened to them! The official reason Harley wants to give for closing Buell is that they were losing money on every bike they sold. They had an offer from another company to purchase Buell and keep it going but chose instead to shutter it and eliminate another 187 jobs in Wisconsin. Prospective buyer was rumored to be Bombardier. As I understand it, they were talking of moving the Spyder production to East Troy and be able to claim then that they were American made. Imagine how many jobs could have been created. During this same time frame, Harley purchased MV Augusta, for a reported 109 million dollars! They gave as a reason a desire to get the patent rights held by MV for some smaller engines for potential future use. Instead they held onto it for about 4 years then sold it back for the equivalent of less than $5.00. You read that right $5.00! One of the only things I have to say I will give them credit for is that they at least offer color options on every model. In case you didn't know, colors other than black are an extra 3-500 bucks and 2 tone paint even more. Rant done, for now!

 

[Falko]

I don't know if I follow that. Many people I know in their 30's and 40's only want Harleys. They know they are slow, they know the reliability is questionable, and they know they are overpriced. BUT it is a HARLEY. It's the image, and Harley has done a great job creating that image. A friend of mine bought an older Harley and passed on a great deal for a Victory because of the name, and he admitted it. He asked me, "Are you going to make me ride in the back of the pack because of my pipes?" I said, "No, your bike is going to make you ride in the back because your bike is slow." He wasn't impressed.

 

[wfooshee]

This is different from what GM, Ford and Chrysler went through in the 70s how?

Our body-on-frame, "road-hugging weight" (actual Ford slogan!) pushrod-engine live-axle leaf-spring drum-brake 9-mpg land yachts are what 'Muricans really want. It must be all they want, 'cause it's all we make!

Companies don't innovate unless they have to. It's expensive to make new stuff all the time.

Look how quickly Harley dumped Buell as soon as the Buell with the "good" engine came out. Instead of thinking, "You know, we need to find a way to keep up," they threw it out as "not American, not interested."

Air-cooled twin paint-shaker potato-potato-potato might be bad-*** in some 50s gangster movie, but it's got nothing to do with modern riding, and if they can't figure that out, then they're doomed.

Oddly enough, there's a new Harley dealership being built here at the moment. It's been delayed several times; first sign I saw said "Open Fall 2010" and they didn't break ground until just last fall.

 

[BkerChuck]

One good thing I must add from my time in the Harley dealership. Someone was foolish enough to trade in their '07 FJR on a '12 FLHX Streetglide giving me the opportunity to finally get on one of these at a steal!!!!

 

[Greg 03]

I can tell you from my recent motor school training that Harley does not impress me at all. I get paid to ride them and I'm still not "getting it." Our road kings are brand new every year and we lease 'em cheap so I know why the chain of command loves 'em. But the differences between what should be identical bikes is staggering... They ALL ride completely different! A 1650 cc motor that only makes 85 horsepower?!?! WTH? Yes I know, ton of torque, different gearing, yada yada yada... I want to ride it, not disc a field with it! Anyway to those of you who like 'em good luck with that... maybe they'll release a few more "special editions" since they haven't run out of paint colors yet...

 

[Redfish Hunter]

It is worth noting that Harley will NEVER say exactly what percentage of the bike is made of foreign parts.

There are things about Harley that are worth liking. There are things about Harley that are worth loving. There is nothing about Harley that is worth that much money.

I have a cousin who really believes that the 110 inch Screaming Eagle motor will outrun a modern sportbike in the 1/4 mile. I work with a guy who says that the only reason the big bore V-twins don't turn good 1/4 mile times is because the transmissions can't handle all that power on a full throttle run. I have shown both of them a full on power wheelie from my Honda ST1300, they have no answer to that one. When I ask them to run against the FJR, they always have something else to do.

I like the Harley for what it is. Unlike the Harley faithful though, I actually know what it is. And I know what it isn't.

 

[airboss]

Lots and lots of Harleys and Harley types around where I live.

Flat straight bikes for flat straight roads.

Just pray you don't have to stop.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

I don't count HD out yet, and that's why I continue to buy their stock. Their sales are still high compared to the other brands, and at least for the foreseeable future, they should be able to remain strong in the industry, despite producing an inferior product. They sell a lifestyle, and that is hard to kill.

That being said, while I like owning their stock, I will probably never again own their motorcycle.

 

[SLK50]

Yet despite all the reasons NOT to own one HD still commands

50% of the big bike market.

They may be falling but they've got a LONG way to go.

 

[fljab]

Harley is still doing good because they know how to do one thing exceedingly well - create a community of inclusiveness. Around here - and I'm sure all over - the dealers on weekends have free BBQs sometimes with a band playing for example. Destination Daytona has all kinds of things going on from swap meets most every weekend to other events. All this brings current owners into the store for at least a look at the new bikes, and other riders - often metric cruise types but sometimes others - looking at the new bikes too. People talk about BMWs "koolaid" - but BMW hasn't got anything on HD IMO.

I've owned and ridden HDs for 34 yrs - I built my first shovelhead basket case in the NAS Key West Galley maintenance shop in '79 and up until I bought the FJR in '09 that's all I had owned. I still have my '99 Ultra Classic that I bought new that I've since slimmed down to my poor man's version of a Street Glide.

I think the tipping point for me to move on was that in '09 when I was looking for a LD exclusive mount I tried first off to buy another HD but it really came down to value. I was looking primarily at the Tour Glides because they have a fixed fairing vs the front end mounted version that is on my bike and most HD tourers. I had had "wiggling" problems that I couldn't sort out (that ended up being a cracked swingarm @ the axle opening) and felt going to a frame fairing would be better. I tried and tried to make a deal with them but I'd get aggravated because no matter which dealer I went to, it felt like the were doing me a favor (in their eyes/attitude) for selling me a bike at full retail plus whatever the she-ite they felt like adding to the price.

So - I said feck it - I'm gonna look at everything and let each bike be judged on what it is regardless of brand. I ended up with the FJR and it truly was the easiest deal I've ever done.

To echo BikerChucks earlier post - when HD touts "made in America" - just walk down the accessories/parts department of any dealer and start looking at where all that chrome crap is made. There is some USA stuff there, but you have to look for it.

I think for me, I'll always own one; it's a great bike as long as you don't need to ride it anywhere that requires power or handling, and the straight roads in Central Florida are perfect for it. I rarely go more than 100 miles in a day on it now, nor does it get pushed more than 65 or so; often I just use it to go up and meet friends for breakfast or similar. I've now got almost as many miles on the FJR that sits between LD runs as I do the HD. No more new tho, and maybe no more at all besides the one I got. It runs good enough for what I do with it. Yes, I know, they do keep putting progressively bigger motors in them - stock tourers now are @ 103" vs the 88" in mine (not to mention the Screaming Chicken models), but dang them things cost big bucks!

I really thought at one time HD was going to come into the modern age at least with alternative models, but as said earlier they killed Buell, sold MV Augusta, and have relegated the VRod to some sort of mutant drag bike instead of offering a version as a sport tourer or other innovative model. And, from what I've seen, they don't really push those as much as Sportys and the big bikes.

Dunno about the statement of 30 and 40 somethings wanting HDs - when I do go to the dealer BBQs (and that's not often - just when I'm meeting friends there) I mostly see riders in their 50s and up (I'm one of them - 58). I guess it's the same in a way with FJRs - a lot of us are older - but the difference is Yamaha does offer many styles of bikes for on and off road, and for entry level in both on up.

Since the FJR buy, I kinda feel I've been "set free", been able to escape from my pimp as it were. Shoot, I even bought a used VStrom now for my upcoming UCCC this summer! I'm thinking one of my hardtails needs to go to make room for? Dunno, but doubtful it'll be another HD.........

 

[dcarver]

I love my Harley.

So https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/****.gif all of you.

Oh, need proof Harley's can out-perform POS crap like FJR's made in Japan from 'Murican beer cans?