HD Bashing and The Patriot Guard

[radman]

As I was riding home yesterday after attending the funeral of Sgt. Daniel Sesker as part of my Patriot Guard commitment, I began thinking about the multiple threads in this forum as to the foolishness of those who ride products from The Motor Company, otherwise known as Harley Davidson. I'm sure you've all seen the many comments on the lack of gear, the noise, the low power output vs high power claims etc. Thats ok I guess, some folks just have to feel superior to someone, in order to elevate themselves somehow, and the HD crowd is a relatively safe and secure target in this forum, though a few here take umbrage and react accordingly.

The cemetary was a good 16-17 miles from the funeral services, as a result, a large procession was formed. Led by 2 Iowa Highway Patrol cars, the hearse and family cars were next, then at least 2 dozen Patrol, Sheriff and local police cars, then at least a mile long retinue of motorcycles, paired off and most displaying flags. The content of this procession is why I write, for it was composed of at least 95% Harley D's. Now some may write this off as HD's just love a parade, or some other such ********, but it has to make one think-where were all the detractors when it counted? I'm sure this is gonna raise some hackles, but I sure think that when it counts, when real motorcyle issues are in question politically, or at an important event such as the one I just came from, the HD folks put their money where their mouth is, while a vast majority of riders in general just like to act high and mighty, and portray the 1%'ers as the losers in the cycle world, when I often have to wonder if the opposite is in fact true. Where were you all? Why, when your presence is necessary, are the other riders in this country so lacking in presence? Something to think about next time the bashing begins. What say you?

 

[MikeYork5]

:clap: Right on! I get a little tired of HD bashing as well. You're right the opposite is generally true from my experience. At any charity ride that I've been on, the vast majority of bikes are Harleys, wheather due to the age of the rider, socio-economic standing, or just the love of group riding, they are there, putting up the cash and support. To each there own I guess, some talk the talk and others walk the walk. I enjoy my Harley, and when on it life is good (not to mention the re-sale value).

 

[exskibum]

Well, good on you Rad. Seems like this could have simply been a report on opposing the nut job Reverend (who, BTW, seems to infect the military funerals in your part of the country more than in mine).

But it obviously also posed an opportunity "to act high and mighty" and "to feel superior to someone, in order to elevate [oneself] somehow" by lecturing everyone else about HDs and their riders, while claiming something to the effect that the rest of us are somehow not committed motorcyclists.

So, thanks for the patronizing lecture. I have a perspective on the subset of HD riders who regularly and loudly exhibit disdain for those of us who don't choose to ride HD. I don't have any idea what the statistical correlation may be between HD riders who ride HDs only because it fits their needs as riders (as opposed to the holier than thou, look at how bad I am HD ego ****). I simply DO NOT ENJOY riding in large groups, whether it is a slow moving 200 yard long caravan that doesn't yield to faster traffic, or in a charity poker run (I want to get back on the bike and ride, not stop repeatedly to talk about it), or in important events like you choose to ride in. I ride because I love the freedom and sensation of riding, not for some social need or the desire to be a part of any group or to make any statement. So, I mostly ride by myself or with a couple others. BTW, I do write to legislators on motorcyle issues, whether you consider mine to be "real motorcycle issues" or not.

Anyone ever call you a codger?

 

[FJRottie]

We should probably agree to disagree right now.

Some really like to bash the HD, its conglomerate and its followers. The bashing is childish.

Some ride them or have ridden them. Some don't follow all the hype, they just like that kind of ride.

Also, many HD riders do attend all sorts of events and parades like Radman said.

But, I agree with Exskibum. I am not fond of giant bike crowds or parades. I ride with a select few. If I am swindled into a big bike event, I ride at the back.

I am military, I honor fallen soldiers and fight for biker's rights. I do it all my own way.

I don't try and portray anything, and I do look after real motorcycle issues.

 

[MikeYork5]

With regard to:

So, thanks for the patronizing lecture. I have a perspective on the subset of HD riders who regularly and loudly exhibit disdain for those of us who don't choose to ride HD.

Interesting- take. I have ridden and hung with many primarily Harley riders , groups, etc.,- and I can't ever remember any 'rice rocket' bashing taking place. In fact, quite the opposite, I see/hear interest in the bikes being displayed, with regards to power, handling, etc. Also, I participate on a couple of active HD forums - and again little (if any) bashing going on against any other bikes (lots against the cagers). However, seems to be quite a bit of it going on here, regularly. Maybe it's coming just from a select few, just my observations.

 

[donaldb]

I did a few charity group rides a few years back. I don't do them anymore. The accordian effect kinda scares me to much. The last charity event I attended I rode to the start off point and just watched the bikes leave, then showed up at the destination a few minutes behind the group. I've never had any problems w/hardley riders, they have always been polite and kind to me and some even inquisitive of the FJR. I like cruisers and would like to have another someday but it wont be a Hardley, I'll stay metric, I just cant pay/afford the Hardley personna. It's a different crowd those Hardley guys, I just don't get it. Different strokes for different folks, most are friendly a few are jerks--sorta like this board!!

 

[Toecutter]

You're right Slappy.  Scratch all of it except the I'm done part.

Guess not, huh? I think, somewhere on the 'net, there must be a twelve step program for those who can't kick on their own. Welcome back.

Did any of the America-hating ****** lowlife funeral violators show up?

As for the HD issue, I've owned one before, probably never again, YMMV. There's a guy in my neighborhood who, thankfully due to weather hasn't ridden to work in months, rides by prior to 0600 rapping his loud *** drag pipes. I seriously doubt that any of the neighbors enjoy his "freedom of expression". Unfortunately, the street he uses is one over from mine, so unless I see him one day in passing, I can't find him to ask him to curtail his pre-dawn noise pollution. Maybe he just does it to keep the POS from stalling, and maybe it has finally broken down or he's moved away. If he starts up again I'm golden, as yesterday I discovered that an old friend just joined my city's PD. Now that I can be a bigger pain in his *** than he can be in mine, I may have to lie in wait at the controls of my bike and wait to hear him approach for a few mornings. I'm sure catching up to him won't be a problem.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the HD guys who run legal pipes. I don't have much desire to hang out with them, but I wave to all anyway. I don't care for the sportbikers who noise pollute either. These defiantly loud asshats are hurting all our reputations, regardless of make.

 

[exskibum]

With regard to:
So, thanks for the patronizing lecture. I have a perspective on the subset of HD riders who regularly and loudly exhibit disdain for those of us who don't choose to ride HD.

Interesting- take. I have ridden and hung with many primarily Harley riders , groups, etc.,- and I can't ever remember any 'rice rocket' bashing taking place.  In fact, quite the opposite, I see/hear interest in the bikes being displayed, with regards to power, handling, etc.  Also, I participate on  a couple of active HD forums - and again little (if any) bashing going on against any other bikes (lots against the cagers). However, seems to be quite a bit of it going on here, regularly.  Maybe it's coming just from a select few, just my observations.

I don't know whether it's a select few, but it is definitely a subset of Harley riders. I've been riding 41 or 42 years now -- 38 since I got my drivers license in California at 16. I used to paint, mold frames and rewire my bikes and friends' bikes, including 3 or 4 HDs back in the early 70s when I was into cruisers (before they were known as such) and choppers. A friend (who I learned passed last year) used to run Gary Bang's first retail outlet for aftermarket parts (mostly for HDs). In 1977, I bought a Kawasaki Z1 900 and never looked back. Point is that back when HD was probably justifiably the no. 1 bike in terms of the performance my friends and I sought, I agreed on that, but still never bashed anyone else's choice.

Now, after my ownership of a half dozen non-HD large road bikes, I've heard plenty of bashing of the non-HD crowd by SOME HD riders. I'd have to be deaf not to have.

Rice rocket, ricer, rice burner, throwaway bike, etc. are all terms that seem not to have been coined by the owners of Japanese motorcycles. I'm not going to go through the littany of times over the years that I've been asked what I'm riding when I walk in someplace with a helmet, and after telling the person, get something like: "oh, too bad it's not a Harley" . . . or "nice bike, too bad it's not a real bike" in a parking lot when I pull up next to the pickup truck with two guys getting in (with HD decal on back).

Or just last summer at the park a quarter mile from here -- my Blackbird sitting next to a Bandit and surrounded by HDs, I'm asked what it is (no one seems to know what that XX is). Here it comes - - - yep - - - "too bad it's not a real bike." I just roll my eyes and try to offer a laugh at what is hardly a new, original or interesting "my **** is bigger than yours" comment. Maybe it's because his **** is SO BIG that he couldn't even get a sniff of my XX's exhaust. Same rally -- HD shop owner gets up at the mic and during the raffle for a Fat Boy, suggests that this is the opportunigy for the few of us riding "rice burners" to get a "real motorcycle." Later, he denigrates the local dealer for all 4 Japanese brands (I have my own issues with him, but on a completely different level). I can go on -- I heard the same **** at a motel in Yreka last July 4. It's not like this is new, so I don't know why your experience is so different from what I have sat and listened to, but am glad it is. Just to be clear though: I've said it before here, but most of the HD riders I know on a one to one basis, probably MOST HD riders, are simply motorcycle riders and they have been polite to me in conversation and on 99.9 percent of topics.

I think Rottie got it right -- we ought to all agree to disagree on this. I don't care what someone rides or why, even if it is for ego purposes. (Doesn't mean I'm not bored or amused at the hypocricy of some of the demeaning **** I've heard from the subset of ignoramuses for years.) I don't care what riding preferences anyone has; I know what I enjoy and have the bikes that scratch that itch. But I DO think it's horse **** to say that another group (whether the HD riders or the non-HD riders) puts their money where their mouth is, stands to be counted on motorcycle issues, or some other condescending crap like that.

 

[radman]

But I DO think it's horse **** to say that another group (whether the HD riders or the non-HD riders) puts their money where their mouth is, stands to be counted on motorcycle issues, or some other condescending crap like that.

Yeah, whatever. Nice history lesson. Fact remains, HD guys were there, hardly anyone else is. And, the same guys were there when the snow was flying, and everyone arrived in cages. So I ask again, why? This wasn't supposed to be a thread about brand bashers, it's about belief in something and making a stand-something the Rice-Riders don't seem to do so well. Why?

 

[SkooterG]

But I DO think it's horse **** to say that another group (whether the HD riders or the non-HD riders) puts their money where their mouth is, stands to be counted on motorcycle issues, or some other condescending crap like that.

Yeah, whatever. Nice history lesson. Fact remains, HD guys were there, hardly anyone else is. And, the same guys were there when the snow was flying, and everyone arrived in cages. So I ask again, why? This wasn't supposed to be a thread about brand bashers, it's about belief in something and making a stand-something the Rice-Riders don't seem to do so well. Why?

Age.

That's my take. The people doing this stuff are ornery old farts. Those that can afford a Harley, and are old enough to want a lux-o-liner cruiser. That's a generalization, as we have some senior citizen FJR owners on the board, but realistically, they are a minority.

Also, you can debate to the end of time, but part of the H-D image culture is 1) Group mentality - group rides for whatever reason, and 2) Mom, apple pie, and the good ol US of A, so your going to get a higher percentage of H-D riders doing the patriotic stuff than the other makes.

But really, its all about age.

I wasn in San Diego this past weekend and went to check out South Bay Motorsports since many on this forum sing their praise. Well, that place was hoppin on a Thursday afternoon. And guess who most of the clientle is? Hint: The biggest naval base on the west coast is really, really, close. The same base I was stationed at many years ago. Also, Miramar MCAS is not too far away either. So here's a bunch of gung-ho young sailors and marines, all with more bravado then brains, and guess what motorcyles they are buying Rad? I can tell you they are NOT Harleys. But I would NOT be questioning the patriotism, loyalty, or motivation of these guys.

Young and stupid - for the most part performance bikes. Old and ornery, you generally have the money to buy a H-D, and the extra time to do stuff like you describe.

 

[Bounce]

where were all the detractors when it counted?

I would see it as what you consider "when it counted". If you think motorcycling is about politics and solidarity, then you'd have been there.

If you work for a living and think motorcycling is about riding, you may or may not have been there.

Has nothing to do with marque other than some dirtbags don't have a job.

 

[ionbeam]

I've noticed that there is a high number of military people that are HD riders. Especially within our generation (Asian and first Gulf conflicts). My neighbor flies his POW/MIA flags and rides his Harley. His friends fly flags and ride HDs. I see American flags as well as POW/MIA stickers 'n flags on a high number of HDs and almost never on Rice. As always there are exceptions.... (I don't need an alarm, from a 1/4 mile away he wakes me promptly at 4:40 am on every morning that riding is at all possible. Regardless of bike type, he's a riding kinda biker, gotta respect that.)

Edit: I see as I was typing Skoot covered it at 1:20 and my post didn't hit until 1:24.

 

[exskibum]

But I DO think it's horse **** to say that another group (whether the HD riders or the non-HD riders) puts their money where their mouth is, stands to be counted on motorcycle issues, or some other condescending crap like that.

Yeah, whatever. Nice history lesson. Fact remains, HD guys were there, hardly anyone else is. And, the same guys were there when the snow was flying, and everyone arrived in cages. So I ask again, why? This wasn't supposed to be a thread about brand bashers, it's about belief in something and making a stand-something the Rice-Riders don't seem to do so well. Why?

Really? Look at the title you gave the thread. The first words are CLEARLY about brand bashing, as is much of your text. If you mean that you didn't intend it to be about that, I'll accept that at face value, but that isn't what the words (without more) said.

As to your conclusions about why few others were there, that's just your own stab at one of many possible conclusions, as if it were the only one. Those may have to do with group riding preferences, effective communication of the particulars of these rides (HD riders do beat the hell out of the rest of us regarding organization of group riding opportunities) or other reasons, including the possibility that not everyone attaches the same significance to, or believes in the same "something(s)" that you do, not everyone has the same time to make allowances for group rides, or the same belief in what is important as you do. In my case, I have not heard of ONE single instance around here where that ***-wipe pseudo-Christian reverend from your part of the country and his band of morons has organized one of these despicable events, and would be surprised if he could come and go uninjured if he did.

Nobody is arguing that HD riders make up the bulk of attendees at these things and lots of charity rides -- they do. I don't need a bike to take my stands, but don't begrudge anyone who wants to use his bike as a part of any statement of cause. (Last summer, I was invited to two charity rides I didn't attend, but I wrote a check for the attendance fee anyway -- another in May on the other side of the mountain I will probably do the same with.) But please don't make me laugh at how much more studly and committed to beliefs you guys are than "Rice-Riders" like me, because among other things, you went in the snow. I don't recall giving you a rash of crap for being heat sensitive and declining to come out west for WFO (even if your comments included some snotty characterization of Tahoe residents); if you want to measure dicks in cold weather, like snow camping on skis in the mountains, let me know.

I'm neither disagreeing with your or the HD riders' commitment to this cause, nor to your or their willingness to do group rides in inclement conditions. You, on the other hand, ARE claiming that the rest of us "Rice-Riders" neither have that commitment nor the stones to take a stand on something.

You write something you expressly acknowledge in your original post is provocative and then get sensitive when it provokes a response that disagrees with your conclusions?!?

 

[FJRottie]

Why?

Because of bashing. I have had different types of bikes. When I used to go to large functions, the HD crowd would bash others.

It may be different now, but I have been to large rides or fund-raising events, and the HD crowd would try and claim all credit and bash others when they had the microphone.

My last one was a large fund-raiser for Blind People. Very far from bike-type.

But organizers and HD riders would mock and criticize German or Japanese bikes.

Therefore, all those none HD people stopped going to these childish games.

It may not hold true in all cases but it does happen. There are many Bike Clubs that are "Harley Only" and what they stand for has nothing to do with HD.

 

[radman]

So it's personal, eh bum? Sorry I brought it up. Screw you and your snow-****.

 

[radman]

But please don't make me laugh at how much more studly and committed to beliefs you guys are than "Rice-Riders" like me, because among other things, you went in the snow.

Oh, and this was written to illustrate that it wasn't the chance to "parade" on their bikes that brought them togther. Quit trying to read **** into things that isn't there, and you might understand what I'm trying to say a little better. Jeez........ :blink:

 

[exskibum]

So it's personal, eh bum?  Sorry I brought it up.  Screw you.

Not personal with me, though I'm a little disappointed that you can dish it but can't take it.

And thank you for the wish that I might be the recipient of enjoyable sexual consortium; may you be similarly blessed.

 

[Warchild]

Yeah, we're done here, gentlemen.

It was obvious just by reading the title that this thread would deteriorate quickly.

You're welcomed to take it to PMs if you want to continue slinging.