Insulate the air box for more hp

[dustyrains]

Wondering if anyone on the forum has any experience with this particular horsepower mod. The idea is to insulate the air induction box, thus keeping the inside of the box cooler, thus making more power. This company, performanceandperfection.com focuses primarily on sport bikes, but when I contacted them, they said they also do FJR air boxes. I can buy an insulated box straight up or send in mine for the mod. A stage 2 is said, by them, to give up to 8 more hp and 2 to 4 ft. lbs. torque. $150.00 for the silver insulation and $309.00 for the stage 2 gold one.

 

[JamesK]

If all they are doing is covering it with Alfoil, than why not just buy a couple of rolls of self-adhesive aluminum foil tape and save a bundle. I am not sure how effective this is likely to be though, without something like ram air ducts, etc.

 

[user 213]

I tend to agree with JamesK. Due to the location of the air box, and the lack of air flow over it or rammed into it, it will heat soak regardless of what it's covered with. It might take slightly longer to do so, but you're not really gaining anything since you won't be flogging it while the motor is still warming up.

The concept is strait forward. Cool air is denser and more oxygen means more fuel can be added and make more power.

However, so you gain 8 Hp and 1-4 ft/lbs of torque. Are you currently using what you have? If you're not using every bit of what you have, the increase is going to be barely noticeable, if at all.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

I wonder if cooler air in would mean a bit cooler running temp and cooler exhaust out. Something that is important for us Gen 1 riders.

 

[Burnspot]

Seems like this might be one of those things where the benefit is marginal in reality, but bigger in the mind. I agree, just go out and do what JamesK suggests and save the money for more useful farkles.

 

[frito1]

Some pretty big claims. I forget the source, but I think it was Smokey Yunick, anyway dyno results showed that a 7 degree decrease in intake temp netted a 1% increase in HP. On a race vehicle that would be significant, on the street I doubt you'd ever be able to detect the difference. I call it snake oil. Send me your airbox, I'll paint it gold, and won't charge but $250.

 

[ionbeam]

I wonder if cooler air in would mean a bit cooler running temp and cooler exhaust out. Something that is important for us Gen 1 riders.

In the bigger picture where complex hydrocarbon molecules recombine with the components in air, under pressure, the resulting byproduct of heat is more related to chemical energy release and pressure rise than the temperature of the incoming air.

What cold air adds to this reaction is a denser mass of air which contains a higher volume of reactive molecules.

At the drag strip it is common to see people icing down the intake manifold for better performance. I've seen all kinds of numbers about how much of the incoming air charge would be in contact with the walls of the manifold, the duration that they would be in contact and some math about energy transfer while the molecules are in contact with the walls of the manifold. By the numbers, icing the intake doesn't work. By the track timer it does slightly improve ET. The size and surface area of an automotive intake track and intake manifold is vastly bigger than a motorcycle's intake offering a better opportunity to reduce the temperature of the intake charge.

Now, N2O is a real laugh when injected into the intake, supplying both an increase in intake charge density by means of temperature reduction, resulting in improved volumetric efficiency, and as an oxidizing agent.

 

[wfooshee]

Since it's always being filled with outside air, I don't see any benefit of insulating it. The air inside it doesn't sit there and get heated, it gets ingested into the engine. It spends even less time in the air box when you're right hand is cranked all the way back, so any heating during its milliseconds trip through the box is less than negligible.

The airbox is not a reservoir that stores air for when you need it. The planet itself does that part. You want cooler air, ride in the winter.

As for icing down the intake manifold at the drag strip, keep in mind that such cooling only needs to last a few seconds. It will not affect something that drives the hills all day. Also keep in mind that we have no intake manifold to speak of. There are mere centimeters between the throttles and the valves.

Anybody actually monitored the intake air temp in an insulated vs. non-insulated air box?

Now, put an A/C compressor on the bike and the condensor in the intake path, and maybe you'll cool the intake air. Compressor load might offset your power gain, though. . . .

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Free HP is available through cooler intake air via an intake air cooler -- inter-cooler. Most forced induction set-ups (turbochargers) employ inter-coolers to make the incoming charge denser (after they've heated the air by compression).

So, the concept has merit.

 

[Bungie]

Free HP is available through cooler intake air via an intake air cooler -- inter-cooler. Most forced induction set-ups (turbochargers) employ inter-coolers to make the incoming charge denser (after they've heated the air by compression).

So, the concept has merit.

Yup. Same idea as wrapping the header pipes with heat wrap to 'hold in' the heat in the cylinder.

If your going that far, throw in a water injection system mixed with 50% alcohol to cool the intake charge further still.

 

[Crash Cash]

This is one of those scams where it sounds just plausible enough that stupid/gullible people will actually part with the money. What does gold color do that's worth $59 more? That points to it being more bling than substance right there. You sure as hell aren't gaining 8hp from anything as simple as this.

 

[FJR919]

Free HP is available through cooler intake air via an intake air cooler -- inter-cooler. Most forced induction set-ups (turbochargers) employ inter-coolers to make the incoming charge denser (after they've heated the air by compression).

So, the concept has merit.

Yup. Same idea as wrapping the header pipes with heat wrap to 'hold in' the heat in the cylinder.

If your going that far, throw in a water injection system mixed with 50% alcohol to cool the intake charge further still.

Actually, header wrap is not to hold the heat in the cylinder. The purpose of header wrap is two-fold- first, to hold the heat in to improve cylinder scavenging. If the exhaust in the header is giving up heat, the exhaust gas velocity is slowing down thus reducing scavenging which aids in eliminating exhaust gases from the combustion chamber allowing for better filling with fuel and air. Second, and primarilly for auto applications, it reduces underhood temperatures at the expense of the header's metallurgy.

Unless you've made some modification to the engine which increases cylinder pressure (turbo or supercharging, compression ratio increase, etc) you would lose power by adding an alcohol/water injection system. Even pure alcohol does not have the energy output (btu) of gasoline.

 

[user 213]

Free HP is available through cooler intake air via an intake air cooler -- inter-cooler. Most forced induction set-ups (turbochargers) employ inter-coolers to make the incoming charge denser (after they've heated the air by compression).

So, the concept has merit.

Yes, but you're not cooling the air below ambient. In a turbo application you are simply dumping heat made during compression, (when you compress air, it gets heated. For you Roots fans, when you beat at it to shove it along faster, all that flailing about causes heat too. ).

In the FJR's case, you're not going to cool air below ambient either, and the incoming air is ambient. The airbox does get hot from all the surrounding engine heat and lack of exposed surfaces, and will contribute some minor heat to the air drawn in via our funky snorkel, but not so much, imho, that you're going to find significant gains by some foil wrap. It's snake oil.

And again, if you're not using all the Hp you have, adding more to the top end won't be noticeable. I see tons of people driving/riding high Hp vehicles that short shift, then tell me how they need more power.

 

[tmc]

*shakes head*

Can you say placebo?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Free HP is available through cooler intake air via an intake air cooler -- inter-cooler. Most forced induction set-ups (turbochargers) employ inter-coolers to make the incoming charge denser (after they've heated the air by compression).

So, the concept has merit.

Yes, but you're not cooling the air below ambient. In the FJR's case, you're not going to cool air below ambient either, and the incoming air is ambient.

True..., but the air could be cooled to less-than ambient -- a simple windshield washer tank & pump could spray onto inter-cooler/airbox/whatever and let evaporation (on a hot, dry, day) lower the temp. below ambient.

...if you're not using all the Hp you have...

More is more -- many want more...

 

[Constant Mesh]

Agree, it's a bogus concept for the FJR. Regrettably, though, the FJR's intake air is heated above the ambient temp since the air inlet is rearward of the engine and fairing. Gotta believe the air temp at the inlet under the seat area is a few degrees higher than the ambient.

 

[Fred W]

The primary need for an intercooler is to reduce the superheated intake air after it has been compressed (via a turbo or super charger blower). Compressing the air raises the temperature well above ambient, thereby reducing its density and decreasing overall efficiency. They can only bring the temp of the intake air back down to (near) ambient outside temp as an intercooler is just an air to air heat exchanger.

If you wanted even more cooling density you could run the intake through a refrigeration coil (like an AC system), but the losses of running the AC compressor would total more than the gain from the lowered intake air temps, so it would be a net power loss.

No, if you want to get significantly more power (torque) from an engine, without increasing displacement, the only way is to jam more oxygen in (along with the right amount of extra fuel, natch) via a turbo, supercharger or nitrous injector.

There was someone that had rigged up a dry Nitrous injection system on his FJR a couple of years back. Never did hear how it worked out for him. Maybe the engine fragged?

 

[wfooshee]

Fred W was close to the point I came back to make regarding intercooling.

Intercooling is not done to increase charge density. The ****'s under pressure, after all, right? It's already dense. Supercharging itself is done to increase charge density! Intercooling is done to prevent pre-ignition. If the compressed intake charge were allowed into the engine uncooled, the compression stroke of the piston could heat it enough higher to ignite the fuel before compression is finished, a Bad Thing.

Insulating the airbox is a placebo. (I wish I'd thought of that word!) The air doesn't live in the airbox long enough to take in any heat. The paths are too short with not enough hot surface interfacing with a given air volume. Especialy not with the airflow expected during the time you are told the thing works best, at top end.

 

[Fred W]

Well, I'm sure it works every bit as well as these other Performance Mods:

The Turbonator

https://www.autoanything.com/air-intakes/77A4397A3355989.aspx?kc=ffskuThrottle Body Spacers

Cold Air Intakes (that actually suck in hot engine bay air)

Nitro Performance chip (for FJR's no less)

And the best part is, they all work 100% exactly as they are intended to!!

Spoiler

They seperate the foolish buyers from their money and make the sellers richer!