lack of signage related incidents

[v65]

Reading about Old Michael's unfortunate get off reminded me of a couple of incidents I have had with unmarked "features" of the road. The first happened outside of Nashua, NH. The road was maintained nicely enough, but apparently only local people were supposed to use it because there was no sign announcing the 90 degree bend in the road that appeared out of nowhere. That one must have been funny to watch, I was just coming back to motorcycles from a 10 year lay-off and I really don't recall how I made it.

The second one spidey-sense saved me. I was cruising along in 55mph zone on a back road of NY. I could see a road crossing mine, but I had no stop sign. The odd part was that my road rose up a couple feet to meet the crossing-road, which just didn't seem right. Fortunately I slowed down because the road I was about to cross was clearly the major road, they didn't have a stop sign either, and the road I was on turned to dirt on the other side. :glare:

What stories do you have?

 

[k7lvo]

The thing I notice most often is that, while 99% of the time the yellow speed signs are hopelessly conservative, every once in a while one of them REALLY means 15 MPH, which can get real interesting, real quick!

Regarding your experience with the unmarked cross road, good on ya spotting it the way you did. We have a "T" intersection out in the middle of nowhere where the leg of the "T" is a secondary highway that is straight as a string for at least 7-8 miles, with only a few elevation changes to keep it from being the proverbial gun barrel. It's real easy to really wick it up on that stretch. The last time I was over it I saw a dark black (yeah, dark black!) set of skid marks leading up to the intersection, continuing across the national highway :dribble: and then plowing up the (fortunately) huge dirt parking area on the other side. Even more fortunately, apparently no one had been approaching the intersection on the main highway at the time.

(Lesson (re)learned: If that car on the side road doesn't look like he's going to stop - maybe it's because he really isn't going to!)

 

[Crash Cash]

The thing I notice most often is that, while 99% of the time the yellow speed signs are hopelessly conservative, every once in a while one of them REALLY means 15 MPH, which can get real interesting, real quick!

Ohhh yeah... I remember coming up on one such sign and hitting the 90-deg right at about 45mph on the RZ-350. I slammed the bike right w/o touching the front brake and PRAYED. Evidently the spirit of Kenny Roberts was with me as I made it around. The guy behind me said I just vanished - one moment I was there, and the next I wasn't.

Around here, it's the 15MPH signs can be ignored, but the 25mph signs usually mean you should be doing 20. Go figger. We also have a lot of the damn speedbumps w/o the yellow paint.

 

[ponyfool]

Regardless of what road you are on, if you are riding faster than you can see, you are taking a risk. Even on roads we know very well and trust (signage or not), if there is something unexpected in the roadway (stalled car, cow, deer, or if the road is washed out, etc) if you are riding faster than you can see, you are likely to get into trouble.

 

[ctfjr]

Regardless of what road you are on, if you are riding faster than you can see, you are taking a risk. Even on roads we know very well and trust (signage or not), if there is something unexpected in the roadway (stalled car, cow, deer, or if the road is washed out, etc) if you are riding faster than you can see, you are likely to get into trouble.

+1 its what usually limits my speed on the back roads

 

[ShawnKing]

The thing I notice most often is that, while 99% of the time the yellow speed signs are hopelessly conservative, every once in a while one of them REALLY means 15 MPH, which can get real interesting, real quick!

No kidding. One of the reasons why I love my GPS - I've always got it set to a fairly tight zoom and I can "look ahead" and see how twisty the roads are...

 

[SkooterG]

Regardless of what road you are on, if you are riding faster than you can see, you are taking a risk. Even on roads we know very well and trust (signage or not), if there is something unexpected in the roadway (stalled car, cow, deer, or if the road is washed out, etc) if you are riding faster than you can see, you are likely to get into trouble.

A painful lesson I learned just a couple weeks ago. Crashing sucks. I now have adjusted my blind corner entrance speed strategey.

 

[Fred W]

Regardless of what road you are on, if you are riding faster than you can see, you are taking a risk. Even on roads we know very well and trust (signage or not), if there is something unexpected in the roadway (stalled car, cow, deer, or if the road is washed out, etc) if you are riding faster than you can see, you are likely to get into trouble.

While I agree with this idea in general, if taken to heart one would not be able to ride above 25mph on many of the back-roads of New Hampshire.

 

[ionbeam]

Next time Shawn King is up in NH I can take him and his GPS out on a wonderful route of discovery where the curves aren't too sharp but they are reverse banked.

Rt. 107 in Deerfield has a couple of wonderful 90 degree corners without warning signs. Rt. 202A in Strafford has several corner warning signs that are superfluous except to lull you to sleep until you find the four wicked corners with the added benefit of not being banked properly. Rt 153 the area of Wakefield has three corners that are zingers without adequate signage.

Also, whazzup with those MOOSE NEXT 12 MILES warning signs? What good is that? I want to know where they are, not where they might be (Jeff Ashe was actually looking for these signs with his camera in hand )

 

[Fred W]

Rt. 107 in Deerfield has a couple of wonderful 90 degree corners without warning signs. Rt. 202A in Strafford has several corner warning signs that are superfluous except to lull you to sleep until you find the four wicked corners with the added benefit of not being banked properly. Rt 153 the area of Wakefield has three corners that are zingers without adequate signage.

Hey... those are all favorite roads of mine. I'm up and down 107 way too often. It's a great riding road unless you get behind a grandma, as there are few opportunities for passing.

I actually lived just off 153 in Wakefield at Woodman corner for a while. That's where the old Cookoo's Nest restaurant was, sadly closed now. Well, technically our house was in Newfield, ME but you could throw a rock into Wakefield.

 

[Big Sky]

Gotta add a tale from the Big Sky.

My buddy and I are heading up the very remote Wise River Road in SW Montana. Back in about 1990 I rode up this for the first time on my old 1983 1100F Honda. At the first real good 180 degree switchback, a spring or something must pass under the road because the pavement there always has these big whoops in it - about three really big, sharp dips/bumps in a row, right in mid-turn. The first time I hit it I was all catty-wampus and crossing the stripe into the on-coming lane, gathered it back in, pulled over to let my heart slow and to change underwear.

So as we approach this corner, which I had since ridden many times and always still found snafued, I pull over to warn my semi-squid buddy who is riding behind. But he just passes me and keeps on a'goin'. I wait but away he goes still. Oh well, thinks I. I take off after him and watch him go sweeping into that switchback, right knee near dragging. As he disappears around the corner I see a big puff of dust. Oh ****! thinks I.

Yup, he hit them whoops, got all crossed up, across the center line and the oncoming lane and into yonder ditch, cracking his FZ1 faring, scratching fork legs, clutch cover and other assorted bits and takes a pretty good divot out of his knee. His pride was hurt more than anything. He asked me - with my much greater experience - what happened? I showed him the buckled up surface and said, "Pilot error." He sputtered and argued and refused to accept responsibility.

What do you say?

I know that the next time I escort anyone up that road, I will stop well before that turn and definitely warn them. It's just too easy to get too enthusiastic.

Some of my favorite roads out here I refer to as "paved logging roads" and that is pretty much exactly what they are: asphalt, yes, but one, maybe one-and-half vehicle width, big patches of missing pavement, no stripes... at all!...no signs...at all!...many sharp, blind turns, camber every which way, washouts, etc. Just stay the hell on your toes to stay on the road, then be watching for deer, moose, elk and bear (no signs warning of these either).

Let the rider beware!

Big Sky

 

[eeksnake]

North Shore Drive that follows along the Northern shore of Lake Mead, NV. One late evening, made my turn toward what is now Lake Las Vegas and spied a sign warning "Gravel on road". I was thinking "Awww, wasn't that nice of them to warn... ****!" The paved road was completely gone! My beautiful pavement had been replaced by rutted, loose gravel on dirt.

Going down a steep hill I prayed that I could make the turn at the bottom. Luckily, the repair work being done included increasing the radius of the turn. Made the turn, slowed down on the uphill and pulled over to quit crying scream profanities into the night sky.

Just a word of caution if you're ever cruising along North Shore Road (which has long since been restored.) Going North past Calville Bay, the road isn't the best kept. After riding 15-20 miles on the teeth jarring, crappy excuse for a road, you'll be greeted with a "Rough Road" sign. I always chuckle and say "WTF do you call the last 20 miles?!"

 

[ShawnKing]

Next time Shawn King is up in NH I can take him and his GPS out on a wonderful route of discovery where the curves aren't too sharp but they are reverse banked.

LOL That ain't right...

 

[Aasland]

..... "Pilot error." He sputtered and argued and refused to accept responsibility. ....
Big Sky

I recall a group of riders from Seattle (IIRC) came down The Aufderheide in Oregon. Three or four went down and blamed it on poor signage, rather than "pilot error". They were apparently riding so close together, and faster than they could see around through the corners, so when one went down, a couple more ran over the fallen bikes.

Frequent trips to NorCal taught me that municipalities don't necessarily all agree on the speeds to post on corners, hence, can't use the posted signage (or lack thereof) to guage a corner.

I suppose, out west (MT, OR, CA, etc), with the vastly lower population density, there are less signs, than out east (NH).

 

[johnny80s]

Was riding a friend's Honda 400 a few days after completing the motorcycle training course. I was buzzing down a long sweeper and then all of a sudden the road ended in a T. I grabbed the brakes and the back started to come around. I let off a little to stop the slide then grabbed a hold again and it started to slide the other way. I knew I was not going to stop in time so I let off the brakes, prayed to Jesus and whipped around the corner. I made the turn and luckily nobody was coming down the road to hit me.

That was when I knew god has a soft spot in his heart for idiots. It also slowed me a down a lot.

 

[Big Sky]

It's almost ALWAYS pilot error, when you come right down to it.

Last year I was following my brother, Suzuki Bandit S, on my FJR on a very remote mountain road in Idaho - very poor markings, etc. Well, he overcooked a surprisingly tight righthander, grabbed brakes, went across the center line and across the oncoming lane. He was fixating on the concrete barriers on the outside of the curve and missed them by about a foot...and I was fixating on his brake light and followed him...across the center line but got my **** together before I got too deep into the oncoming lane. Good thing this stretch was so remote that there was almost zero traffic.

The Seattle fellows you cite above were probably fixating on the back of each others bikes - one screws up, all screw up.

Yep, pilot error. After 30 years, I'm still erring and learning.

Well, it's Friday night and quitting time. Gonna go take that Feej out for a fun little pre-dinner run. And I'll be riding the road, not the signs and markings.

Big Sky

 

[boomerang]

Regardless of what road you are on, if you are riding faster than you can see, you are taking a risk. Even on roads we know very well and trust (signage or not), if there is something unexpected in the roadway (stalled car, cow, deer, or if the road is washed out, etc) if you are riding faster than you can see, you are likely to get into trouble.

Very true.

 

[v65]

I grabbed the brakes and the back started to come around. I let off a little to stop the slide then grabbed a hold again and it started to slide the other way

[begin off topic]

Oooh that reminds me of some the best/worst riding I have ever seen. I had seen this kids bike before the "incident", running some cheap (ie hard) rubber in the rain. He tries to emergency brake and fishtails the bike four times, each time I swear his rear end was perpendicular to the line of travel. To his credit he held it up, and then proceeded on like nothing happened. It was something to see, almost on par with the pair of nekkid riders I saw in PA! :lol:

[/end off topic]

 

[El Toro]

I hate to tell stories on my fellow Tennesseans. There are a lot of rural folk here who are living "off the grid".

On a route from Appalachian Hwy 111 over to US 30 there is a shoulderless, off camber, hair pins, and basic Deal's Gap style crummy road, and at one location in Van Buren County, it makes a very hard, blind, and tight S.

A lot of the signs in this part of the world are pretty badly shot up. At this particular location, there were > and < type signs to warn the unknowing about what was coming over the blind humps in the S.

Locals thought it would be funny, and turned the signs upside down, indicating that the curvature was opposite of its actual geometry.

I called TDOT when I saw it, and they came out and set it right the same afternoon.

I had seen cars fully nose down deep in the hole when they'd missed the S even with the correct signage, so everyone (but the locals) took the sign change seriously.

I don't trust signage on rural roads. I work hard to stay within my range of sight... and if that means slowing down, that's what I do. I've come up on downed trees, deer, tractors with hay bailing skewers, and other assorted killers around blind curves. And, although I'm sure folks are tired of hearing it, when I used to do forensic work and accident reconstruction, I saw my share of the aftermath of folks riding or driving over their head, with the estate trying to prove that the accident was someone else's fault.