Legal Personal Defense on a Bike

[evil_henchman]

You're right! Wasn't the movie "Deliverence" filmed in your neck of the woods? Yikes! And you with such a....nice smile :gun:

 

[tripletango]

Never had a gun, what is pepper spray? Never been attacked except when I needed to be! (I can still run like hell). Survived 60 plus years in many different countries so far. "So far" being the operative statement. No guarantees!

Not sure about weapons, deadly force etc. May create more problems than they solve except in cases of sheer anarchy or war.

 

[chickey191]

Last year while on a trip , my riding partner and I found ourselves in a "situation" in which we were both concerned about our personal safety. We both had 9 mm pistols on our bikes but were reluctant to escalate the "situation".We were able to eventually extracate ourselves from our predicament and no one was harmed.

The next day after discussing the incident, we both bought cannisters of pepper spray and tested them on each other.

I can't speak for anyone else, but , this stuff is incapacitating. It was worse than teargas, much , much worse.

I now carry the stuff in my jacket pocket . All the time.

I've had the occasion to use it once when several dogs cornered me on my bicycle. It stopped them in their tracks ! The spray changed two german shephards in full snarl-attack mode into two whimpering animals in full retreat.

I am a believer. It is not a cure all , but when you need to add another step between talk and gunplay , it works.

BTW get the type that sprays a stream not a cloud.

interesting - but I had a completely different experience - so it obviously must have something to do with the quality of the spray and the aggressiveness or determination of the dog.

I had a rottweiller attack my golden retriever when she was just under a year old. I was riding my bicycle and running the dog in a rural neighborhood when the rott attacked. I saw it coming as I saw the dog assume the position and my doofus dog pranced right into it. I had sufficient time to pull some pepper spray out of a flashlight holder I had attached to the handlebars (dogs were a constant problem) and when the Rott was in full attack mode hit him DIRECTLY in the face - mouth and ears.

My dog was indirectly hit and seemed to be choking to death. The Rott hardly blinked and had a pretty solid piece of my dog's chest in its mouth.

I did something really stupid and slugged to Rott directly in the face/nose. The Rott then dropped my pooch and started after me. Proud father that I was - my little doggie took a MAJOR piece out of the Rott and sent it home (I was SOOOO proud of her). She had a major hunk of meat taken out of her chest which required a slew of stitches. don't know what happened to the Rott as the animal control folks didn't show up in time and the Rott disappeared out of the neighborhood.

One other time I used it when fishing on the river and the land owner kept sicking his doberman's on me (even though it was legal fishing within the high water marks of the river). Pepper spray DID cause those dogs to turn tail even though I never got them directly. so -

I think it depends on the motivation of the dog a great deal.

I also started carrying my 45 when fishing that stretch of the Truckee river, just in case the dogs came back. There was also a bit of a hooverville located upriver that gave one cause for concern if you stayed out past sundown. Nothing that a visible shoulder holster wouldn't cure. Never had to pull the gun, though.

funny - fishing on Lake meade once I did have some guys shoot at me because we were both fishing for the same "boil" of Strippers. I had crossed lines with them and they yelled at me and I yelled back - all of a sudden a bullet flew past my boat. Close enough that I could hear it. I had a 45 then, but refused to use it. even though I had been shot at - I doubted that I could prove it and didn't think killing the guy could have been justified (and it was illegal to carry on Lake Meade (I think). Of course i would have changed my mind had I been hit. As it was I just used the throttle to get the hell away and call a Park Ranger which never showed up.

After that I quit carrying because I knew that if I wouldn't pull that gun after being shot at.... I didn't think there would be a time when I would pull it all. I still carried when back country though. Beer cans all over the west shake when they hear my name (or not).

 

[black mamba]

Here in Florida, we have a unique circumstance. A State law was passed that allows you to shoot first and ask questions later. It used to be that you were required to try and flee if you felt your life was threatened. Under the new law, if to protect your life or others with you, you can blow the *******s away and be within the legal guidelines. There was talk that Florida would become a scene from out of the old west....gunfights everywhere and people dropping like flies. Hasn't turned out that way. The law stresses that you still have to prove that the situation was life-threatening to yourself or the others. There will certainly be civil suits, and maybe criminal ones as well, seeking to determine what is defined as life-threatening. In the few cases that have developed so far, the law has supported those who have killed the *******s attacking them. While there has always been the legal doctrine of the right of self defense, Florida's new law has taken the concept further to state that you don't have to have been injured to respond with deadly force. Under the threat of physical force, shoot them before they get you.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

For those who have a concealed permit, here is a great site that shows Reciprocity between states and such.

https://www.packing.org/

Hope this helps on this very important issue.

 

[warsw]

Just not sure Pepper Spray is the solution of choice. Maybe both would be best. Pepper Spray first, pull the firearm if distance does not permit the use of pepper spray?

My feelings exactly. Pepper spray as a deterrent and a firearm if all else fails.

My wife and I got our cancelled handgun permits about 20yrs ago. The class that we took was given by an ex presidential body guard. This man was super interesting. The class was great.

 

[Rogue]

The only encounter I've have with pepper spray was when a mail man came to the door, my wife answered it and my dog didn't like the mail man. He hit her point blank in the face, she stopped barking and looked up at my wife confused. No ill effects, it just confused her. She was a 110lbs Collie/Shepard mix.

 

[GalaxyBlue]

This is what i ended up buying...

This stuff looks evil! (I hope i never have to use it!)

Found Here

 

[GalaxyBlue]

For those who have a concealed permit, here is a great site that shows Reciprocity between states and such.
https://www.packing.org/

Hope this helps on this very important issue.

This could be a great site, But it's too damn hard to navigate, IMO (I am spoiled by this premium IBP software!)

 

[motorgod]

Just curious whether anyone here has ever been randomly attacked?

Yes, several times, just not motorcycle related. I've been attacked by screwdriver wielding, mouth foaming robber. I've had a punk want to do me with a 2x4 for some mistaken reason. I've had a stranger shoot up a car I was in. This ******* emptied a pistol, pump shotgun and was fiddling with a second pistol. I was laying on my girlfriend on the floor of the car until she freaked and started screaming in a way that curdled your blood. My friend, also laying on the floor managed to get the car into reverse and pull out while lying on the floor. There have been a couple of others but these stand out. BTW, the guy with the 2x4 sued ME for assault after the dust settled.

I'd move to a better neighborhood. <_<

 

[Bounce]

I have been thinking about this alot lately... Since i cant legally carry my firearm across state lines, I am considering a pepper spray. I have been looking at THIS, And the price is pretty good.
Anyone carry anything like this? And have you had to use it?

why can't you? aren't you protected under the "Firearm Owners Protection Act" and its sections on tranportation within the US?

alternately you could apply for a CHL and then check the states that offer reciprocity. with about 35 states having shall-issue laws, the ones who don't respect their citizens are a dwindling minority.

of course less-than-lethal force is always a good option to have. when riding, the throttle hand would seen best. some places (like canookie land) don't like you carrying pepper spray/mace either.

of course none of this applies to bad guys. they ignore the laws about robbing and mugging and so forth, so a little thing like carrying in opposition to local laws doesn't seem to bother them a bit.

 

[Bounce]

In the court knife would be looked at as a deadly weapon. My hands on the other side will not. Specially that I am a small guy it would be easy to defend my self against a bigger opponent in the court.

Incorrect

The very first case of deadly force used in self defense by a CHL holder when the law went into affect in TX was when the attacker was using his bare hands. The case went to a Grand Jury as part of the standard process. The CHL holder was "no billed" - they found that there was no reason to forward the case along for more consideration. IOW, the CHL holder was justified in using his gun against an attacker who was using his bare hands. Of course the anti-gun media was outraged. Once the details came out, it was clear the CHL holder was "in fear of serious bodily injury or death" (the standard used for lawful self defense with a firearm in TX). With the first blow, the attacker crushed the boney ridge of the skull around the outside of one eye socket.

Don't let them steer you wrong. More people are killed with "hands" and "feet" each year than any other single "weapon" (iirc).

I figured the law was the same for everyone, But it is not. I drive a commercial vehicle and the DOT prohibits me from carryinga fire on across state lines "in the truck".

Check closer. Your company may prohibit it, but I don't think the fed does. My step dad had both a CHL and a CDL. it's not a problem. i'm suspecting someone has been feeding you misinformation about WHO doesn't like it.

Yes, several times, just not motorcycle related. I've been attacked by screwdriver wielding, mouth foaming robber. I've had a punk want to do me with a 2x4 for some mistaken reason. I've had a stranger shoot up a car I was in. This ******* emptied a pistol, pump shotgun and was fiddling with a second pistol. I was laying on my girlfriend on the floor of the car until she freaked and started screaming in a way that curdled your blood. My friend, also laying on the floor managed to get the car into reverse and pull out while lying on the floor. There have been a couple of others but these stand out. BTW, the guy with the 2x4 sued ME for assault after the dust settled.

So, what part of Chicago do you live in?

 

[cougar8000]

He is obviously not from Chicago, Because I have been to some places in Chicago and never had a similar effect. Places like robert Tailor homes, Cabriny Green to name a couple.

Some one who desires to give you a body harm will do that even if you carry. They will not announce their intention ahead of time and most people are not trained to respond accordingly when surprised. I am not saying one should not defend one self, but is carrying a gun now days and current laws a good thing and are people trained to do so? If all they want is your wallet or your bike let them have it. It is cheaper this way.

I am totally pro gun, but I am not sure our society is ready to deal with them at this point. Too many wackos roaming around.

Here in Chicago we had someone shot over night in a car because of traffic disagreement.

 

[ionbeam]

Bounce queries

So, what part of Chicago do you live in?

Cougar8000 opines

He is obviously not from Chicago, Because I have been to some places in Chicago and never had a similar effect.

At the time I was living in an area of Rochester, NY that the locals called Bulls Head. In the neighborhood where I was living I was nicknamed Snow Ball because of the way I stood out from the general populace. When walking at night it was common to have someone in the dark yell, "Yo, Snow Ball, y'all lost or sumpin? What you be doin' here?"
When I was in JR High School I moved from Atlanta to Cleveland in the middle of the school year. My first day at school I took a pounding and got suspended for fighting. Fights were nearly a daily event for the rest of the school year. I started taking steps to prevent that from happen again the next year. Over the course of several years of intense training in a number of martial arts styles and boxing I learned how to take care of myself. I've been shot at several times and the only training that helps with that is track :ermm:

 

[black mamba]

A follow-up story about Florida's stance on self protection.......

In south Florida, as a result of a road rage incident, a man got out of his car carrying a large club of some sort. He approached the other car involved and proceeded to bash in the windshield. The other driver, licensed to carry a firearm, promptly shot him dead. The police declined to charge the shooter witn any crime. Did the club-carrying guy really intend to hurt the other guy? Who knows. A regretable incident? Absolutely. Perhaps, though, the outcome of this confrontation will make some people realize that their agressive behavior could lead to consequences they had not planned on. I applaud the Florida lawmakers for creating a legal environment conducive to allowing people to adequately protect themselves.

 

[airboss]

+1 on using the feet. For those that are considering carring a firearm heres something to consider.

Murphy's Laws of Armed Combat.

1. if the ememy is in range, so are you.

2. incoming fire has the right of way.

3. don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.

4. teamwork is essential: it gives them someone else to shoot at.

5. odd objects draw fire, you are odd.

6. never forget that your weapon is made by the lowest bidder.

7. whenever you are low on ammo, you can never hit anything.

8. the more a weapon cost, the further you will have to send it to be repaired.

9. the complexity of a weapon is inversely proportional to the IQ of it's operator.

10. try to look unimportant: they might be low on ammo.

 

[cougar8000]

A follow-up story about Florida's stance on self protection.......
In south Florida, as a result of a road rage incident, a man got out of his car carrying a large club of some sort. He approached the other car involved and proceeded to bash in the windshield. The other driver, liscenced to carry a firearm, promptly shot him dead. The police declined to charge the shooter witn any crime. Did the club-carrying guy really intend to hurt the other guy? Who knows. A regretable incident? Absolutely. Perhaps, though, the outcome of this confrontation will make some people realize that their agressive behavior could lead to consequences they had not planned on. I applaud the Florida lawmakers for creating a legal environment conducive to allowing people to adequately protect themselves.

From legal stand point it might be great for the shooter, but what was wrong with simply not getting involved? Driving away? Not getting involved in the confrontation to begin with? In road rage it takes two to tango!

 

[evil_henchman]

Here's a horror story from the PRC (California). As a member of a shooting club, my friends son has keys to the club's outdoor range. It's mainly a rifle range used for highpower rifle competition. Anyway, he's at the range early one morning, by himself, with his rifle and he has a pistol on his hip in a holdster. He goes to the toilet and when he comes out some dirtbag is holding his rifle. He says WTF or something to that effect and the guy shoots him. With his own rifle! He returns fire with his pistol and passes out. He wakes up in the hospital with no further recollection. The dirtbag and his rifle are gone. A couple of days later a dirtbag stumbles into a local hospital and dies of bullet wounds. It's traced to my friends son and now it's the States turn to end his life. He's charged with murder, jailed, loses his job, wife, and is bankrupted. After over a year of hell he's eventually exonerated without so much as an "I'm sorry" from the DA. I'm sure California's not the only state that would victimize somebody like that. Just something to think about. That and "exit strategy".

 

[Last Chance]

Here's a horror story from the PRC (California). As a member of a shooting club, my friends son has keys to the club's outdoor range. It's mainly a rifle range used for highpower rifle competition. Anyway, he's at the range early one morning, by himself, with his rifle and he has a pistol on his hip in a holdster. He goes to the toilet and when he comes out some dirtbag is holding his rifle. He says WTF or something to that effect and the guy shoots him. With his own rifle! He returns fire with his pistol and passes out. He wakes up in the hospital with no further recollection. The dirtbag and his rifle are gone. A couple of days later a dirtbag stumbles into a local hospital and dies of bullet wounds. It's traced to my friends son and now it's the States turn to end his life. He's charged with murder, jailed, loses his job, wife, and is bankrupted. After over a year of hell he's eventually exonerated without so much as an "I'm sorry" from the DA. I'm sure California's not the only state that would victimize somebody like that. Just something to think about. That and "exit strategy".

That's why I'm already devising my "exit" strategy from the Peoples Republic of CA. Already bought my retirement property in the mountains of Idaho and the first thing I will do upon arriving is get a concealed weapons permit.

LC :assassin:

 

[Bounce]

A follow-up story about Florida's stance on self protection.......
In south Florida, as a result of a road rage incident, a man got out of his car carrying a large club of some sort. He approached the other car involved and proceeded to bash in the windshield. The other driver, liscenced to carry a firearm, promptly shot him dead. The police declined to charge the shooter witn any crime. Did the club-carrying guy really intend to hurt the other guy? Who knows. A regretable incident? Absolutely. Perhaps, though, the outcome of this confrontation will make some people realize that their agressive behavior could lead to consequences they had not planned on. I applaud the Florida lawmakers for creating a legal environment conducive to allowing people to adequately protect themselves.

From legal stand point it might be great for the shooter, but what was wrong with simply not getting involved? Driving away? Not getting involved in the confrontation to begin with? In road rage it takes two to tango!

awareness of the whole story is also what the local media failed to consider with the issue i reported. a desire to find fault (at all cost) with the shooter left them not even asking simple questions like if the defender COULD drive away (he couldn't as he was blocked by traffic on all sides). there were a lot of questions the grand jury asked that the media didn't care about because it might have tripped them on their frantic dash to criminalize the victim.