Looking to the exit

[Kevin Daly]

Ok so after a 500 mile ride this weekend a friend made a comment (of course after telling me I had nearly perfect form )about how I dont turn my head to look at the exit of a corner. Actually I dont turn my head much under any circumstance, a habit formed after rupturing 3 discs at the base of my neck. So i am not really supposed to look up (makes shaving tough) or to the sides (I have maybe 1/2 my total rotation left) if i want to keep the feeling in my left arm. My solution has been to look with my eyes as much as possible. So for example in a long sweeper where i am leaned over and hanging off i "yaw" my head a few degrees to the inside of the corner and look up and into the corner with my eye balls to monitor the unfolding tarmac.

Now i could rotate my head more than I do but risk bump or wind bumping my head over that critical point where pain comes. So the question really is, as long as i can see the exit of a corner, does it matter if my chin is pointed to it??

I would really perfer critical comments unless you plan on twisting "Does head position really matter?" into some perverted joke... I always like a good dirty joke

 

[GalaxyBlue]

I would say under your circumstances, Your fine... But what they say about looking through the corner (ie:turning your head) is the right thing, IMO...YMMV

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I rode for 17 years before anyone taught me to level my head and look through the turn. I used to have my head leaned over the same angle as the bike and I never really concentrated on where I was looking. I just kind of did it. I never crashed and I don't think I'm any faster today after taking classes and stuff than before when I was purely self taught (incorrect stuff). I am safer though ( I slowed down on the street about 5 years ago...except sometimes).

So, I think you get used to however you turn and compensate for it so I don't think it's that big-a-deal.

I have a friend with one eye. You'd think his lack of depth perception would screw him up. He compensates. His brain determines distance by size of familiar things and the figures it out and gets the best lines...if he can do it...

 

[FJRay]

Ok so after a 500 mile ride this weekend a friend made a comment (of course after telling me I had nearly perfect form )about how I dont turn my head to look at the exit of a corner. Actually I dont turn my head much under any circumstance, a habit formed after rupturing 3 discs at the base of my neck. So i am not really supposed to look up (makes shaving tough) or to the sides (I have maybe 1/2 my total rotation left) if i want to keep the feeling in my left arm. My solution has been to look with my eyes as much as possible. So for example in a long sweeper where i am leaned over and hanging off i "yaw" my head a few degrees to the inside of the corner and look up and into the corner with my eye balls to monitor the unfolding tarmac.
Now i could rotate my head more than I do but risk bump or wind bumping my head over that critical point where pain comes. So the question really is, as long as i can see the exit of a corner, does it matter if my chin is pointed to it??

I would really perfer critical comments unless you plan on twisting "Does head position really matter?" into some perverted joke... I always like a good dirty joke

I also have neck issues c-4 thru c-7 are pretty much gone which is why I sold my KLR to MM2. I have found with practice you can do a reasonably good job of looking thru the corner without a lot of head movement. I also do traction everyday along with a bunch of neck exercise. I also have found that not trying to keep up with the fast guys relieves a lot of tension and pain.

 

[Murph]

I'm not saying that anybody is wrong ... especially if there are medical conditions involved. With that said, I am a firm believer that the bike follows the rider's head. I guess that just means that it takes a bit more effort to control the bike when using the eyes instead of full head movement.

But I am only an expert in my opinion.

 

[cougar8000]

I'm not saying that anybody is wrong ... especially if there are medical conditions involved. With that said, I am a firm believer that the bike follows the rider's head. I guess that just means that it takes a bit more effort to control the bike when using the eyes instead of full head movement.
But I am only an expert in my opinion.

+1 what Murph said

When ever you turn your head your body follows plain and simple. try it on your chairsaky now. If you turn your head far enough your body and your hands will go there as well.

If there is a medical condition I sure hope that person learns to compensate for the turning deficiency.

Rossi is the only professional rider that I know that does not look through the turn. You also do that to slow thing down which allows you to keep your heart rate to a minimum. His heart rate is below the norm as is, so it does not effect the Doctor.

 

[Kevin Daly]

good point about the body following the head and to the degree that I turn my head at all it is by rotating both my upper body and neck.

PS I knew me and Rossi had the same technique

 

[Jaycen]

I beleive this is where the term target fixation comes to play. You tend to go where you are looking. If thats to the exit of the corner, thats where you will go

 

[madmike2]

Okay, here's the quote, "The bike goes where you point your nose". However, your medical condition (along with FJRay and others) precludes your being able to participate in this exact form. This only means you must exercise greater awareness regarding lane position, etc., so you don't turn-in to quickly.

I would suppose you could rotate your shoulders slightly, but again, you'd have to maintain your handlebar position where the rest of us can keep our shoulders square and turn our heads.

I know that turning my head makes a world of difference to me. I keep my head turned into the corner and use my peripheral vision to locate the sides of the road to maintain lane position. You will just have to concentrate differently.

 

[Kevin Daly]

I beleive this is where the term target fixation comes to play. You tend to go where you are looking. If thats to the exit of the corner, thats where you will go

YEah but the question is whether it matters if you are looking by moving your eyes or your whole head (and what ever else turns along with it)??

So i looked at a bunch of pics of Rossi, Stoner, hopkins and a few other top riders. Rossi who IMO is the best in the corners really does not orient his head as much as others do. for example in this pic, Stoner is in front and look at the difference in head angle. Rossi must be looking with his eyes and not moving his head as much

 

[FJR Steve]

geez....I even tilt my head when Fox Sports goes to the on board camera in the MotoGP and WSBK broadcasts

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

YEah but the question is whether it matters if you are looking by moving your eyes or your whole head (and what ever else turns along with it)??

My reponse is an big loud YES, it DOES matter. Without moving your head, you're compromising your visual directional control as well as your field of vision. Now, having said that, let me also say I understand that physical limitations may leave you with no other choice.

Because the motorcycle naturally wants to go where you're looking, you have to consciously work harder to make it go somewhere you're NOT looking. It is completely unnatural to view and evaluate the horizon without having your head level. Add some speed through a unfamiliar curve and your increasing your risk of misjudgement tremendously. Also, by only moving your eyes, you cannot look as far into a curve as you would by turning your entire head, so your ability to evaluate that curve and all potential hazards that exist in it is limited. Again, add some speed and an unfamiliar setting and your risk factor increases dramatically. "Does it matter...?", the answer is obviously yes. And just because one high profile rider has learned to use limited head movement while turning (in a known and VERY controlled environment), I don't think anyone should assume that's a better way to negotiate a curve on a motorcycle out on the street.

That's my couple o' pennies...

 

[Sherman]

Just ask John Denver.

 

[Mike-H]

I was at a Total Control course 2 weeks ago & the consensus was if you can't turn your head to look that far thru the corner it helps if you turn your upper body to compensate for the lack of ability to turn your head.....it appeared to work for those who had limited (neck turning) mobility....

 

[FJR1300Mark]

It is my experience that the bike will tend to go where you are looking.

I'm certain I turn my head too - how far I don't know. I think it is the looking and shifting of the upper body that counts.

This has generated an additional question

While getting ready to turn or turning should you keep your head/neck in line to the bike, ie leaning as the bike leans, or should you try and keep it perpendicular to the ground, is your head stays upright as the bike leans?

 

[Kevin Daly]

I should reitterate that I do see the exit (or as much as has unfolded before me on a blind corner). Mike, I do twist my torso to move my head (even when I am not on the bike. Your point about the orientation of the head with respect to the horizon is well taken Larry. I guess I will need some physical therapy to get my head more mobil. I can move it farther than i do but it has become a protective habit.

Mark in response to your querry, I would say that as you approach your turn you should be scanning for your entry point (where you initiate your lean) and then systematically scanning through the turn past the apex to the exit in order to observe the surface then keep your eye on the exit as you initiate and execute your lean/turn keeping your head as level and aimed to the exit as possible.

That said, i am no longer quite able to do that so well (or so i have been told).

 

[Karmak]

Neck problems for me, also. Never recall having any particular difficulty in corners. What bothers me most is taking the "life-saver" glance when changing lanes, etc.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Neck problems for me, also. Never recall having any particular difficulty in corners. What bothers me most is taking the "life-saver" glance when changing lanes, etc.

You mean when you look over the sholder only to find that your neck is locked momentarily. Man that smarts.

 

[mcatrophy]

I believe this is where the term target fixation comes to play. You tend to go where you are looking. If that’s to the exit of the corner, that’s where you will go

Yeah but the question is whether it matters if you are looking by moving your eyes or your whole head (and what ever else turns along with it)??

So i looked at a bunch of pics of Rossi, Stoner, Hopkins and a few other top riders. Rossi who IMO is the best in the corners really does not orient his head as much as others do. for example in this pic, Stoner is in front and look at the difference in head angle. Rossi must be looking with his eyes and not moving his head as much

I think Rossi is concentrating on the back of Stoner's bike!

My own experience: When I returned to motorcycling after a 30+ year gap, I turned my head, but kept my head in line with the lean of the bike.

Later I read about holding the head level. I tried this, and my abilities and confidence improved immensely.

I interpret this as the brain not liking to be leaning over (it's quite unnatural for a caveman, and we have to overcome hundreds of thousands of years of evolution).

Obviously if you have a medical problem and can't move your neck, you can certainly compensate to a large extent (we are amazingly adaptable). What would scare me is not so much cornering (where you may be slightly disadvantaged) but turning to see who is in your blind spots (roughly 3 o'clock to 4 o'clock on the right and correspondingly on the left). I have once or twice been saved by my (what in the UK is called) lifesaver check to the side.