Mechanical Repair Advice Needed

[VersysRider]

I have a 2007 AE with 78,000 miles that I bought for $1600 that runs rough off idle. I dropped it off at the dealer for diagnosis, Cyl 1 pressure checks at 210, Cyl 2 180, Cyl 3 at 150 and Cyl 4 at 90. Leakdown results were Cyl 1 good, Cyl 2 30%, Cyl 3 good, Cyl 4 60%. The shop wants to do a valve adjustment @ $300, which I'm not opposed to, but there is no guarantee that the adjustment will fix the bike. Do you guys feel the odds of a valve adjustment fixing the bike are high enough to go ahead and do it? Or should I just bring it home and part it out? I don't want to sink $300 more into it to find out it needs $1500 worth of head work. Let's hear your thoughts!

 

[JamesK]

Those readings would indicate problems with the engine that are much more severe and terminal than a valve adjustment or head work would fix.

 

[RossKean]

Did they oil the cylinders and redo the compression and leakdown? It could reveal whether it is a ring or a valve issue. Possible it's nothing more than stuck rings and a Seafoam or Yamaha Ring Free enema could fix it. It could take awhile. (Running the snot out of it from time-to-time doesn't hurt either!) AS you are probably aware, 78,000 miles is not a large amount of miles on the FJR motor - unless it has been badly abused. JamesK (above) had well over the 200,000 mark on his original motor and I am closing in on 200,000 as well (next spring maybe).

If the indication is valves, a valve adjustment isn't going to do a thing except put a few hundred bucks in your mechanic's pocket. I have never heard of valve clearance dropping to zero (or negative) which is what would have to happen for clearance to be the issue on a cold motor. Have the valves been checked before? They rarely need much, if any, any adjustment in much under 100,000 miles. Possible that the valves are carboned up and preventing complete closure. Try HaulinAshe's Seafoam treatment (he really does know what he is talking about).

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/156782-seafoaming-your-fjr/page-3?do=findComment&comment=1133722

As far as head work or new rings are concerned, be prepared to pay a bunch of money with no guarantee on results. Are you competent to try it yourself? (I'm not)

You would be far better off to pick up a used engine on eBay and swap the motors. If you don't find an AE version, you can use parts from your motor to make one - really just the shift drum, I think.

Edit - a number of them on eBay now for under $900 including one for an AE.

If it isn't something simple like stuck rings or carboned up valves causing the bad compression numbers, it probably ain't worth trying to fix as JamesK suggests above.

 

[Fred W]

I believe that what they are thinking is that the valves probably have never been adjusted and now the clearance is so little that some valves are no longer being allowed to close fully, and that is the cause of your compression loss. To confirm or deny that theory would only require doing a valve check. Since you have no idea what the state of those clearances are, I would not be opposed to having them checked, but being a cheap SOB I would pull the valve covers and check them myself.

 

[RossKean]

I believe that what they are thinking is that the valves probably have never been adjusted and now the clearance is so little that some valves are no longer being allowed to close fully, and that is the cause of your compression loss. To confirm or deny that theory would only require doing a valve check. Since you have no idea what the state of those clearances are, I would not be opposed to having them checked, but being a cheap SOB I would pull the valve covers and check them myself.

I don't disagree that a valve check needs to be part of the process but I surely wouldn't pay the $300 they are asking! I still think that a confirmation on a wet/dry compression/leakdown would be useful to start. Followed by the Seafoam enema. If the valves are carboned up, he won't get the right results for a valve check anyway - they will show too much clearance rather than zero. Based upon Fred's Valve Check Poll ( https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/111697-valve-checks-vs-adjustment-required-poll/?hl=%2B%2Bvalve+%2B%2Bcheck+%2B%2Bpoll ), it seems unlikely (to me) that any clearances have dropped to zero (or minus) in 78,000 miles unless there was a problem from the factory or somebody abused the crap out of the bike. I don't know whether it was established if this bike had ever had a valve check and what the results/adjustments were - possible that it was done but totally messed up by whoever did it (perhaps due to carboned exhaust valves).

 

[Canadian FJR]

Try a strong dose of Ring Free, worth a try.

Canadian FJR

 

[08FJR4ME]

Wow, on the third valve check only 5.14% of the FJR's needed adjustment. That's pretty dam good. That would put the OP as one of the 5% per centers if needed. My guess is there is something elso going on. Time to ****** it.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[Fred W]

Wow, on the third valve check only 5.14% of the FJR's needed adjustment. That's pretty dam good. That would put the OP as one of the 5% per centers if needed. My guess is there is something elso going on. Time to ****** it.

Look again, Dave. The percentages in the poll are skewed because on the last question I have several years covered, so you have to ignore those percentage calculations.

The real percentages are:

1st Check 15.7% require adjustment

2nd Check 28.7% require adjustment

3rd Check 27.3 % require adjustment

4th Check 40% require adjustment

5th Check 50% require adjustrment

Notice that if you add them all up you get 161.7%. That suggests that on average a large amount of the bikes that reach a 5th check will require shimming a second time.

Just adding up the first three checks says that on average ~70% of all bikes will require a reshim. Some of those may have been shimmed twice, but I suspect not that many.

 

[wetwolf]

If the mechanics were any good at doing a leakdown test they would have a clue as to where the leakage is happening. If you can hear air coming out the exhaust, it's an exhaust valve not sealing, same with the intakes valves and the airbox. Undo the oil fill plug and you can hear it going past the rings. Sheesh.

 

[VersysRider]

The dealer sent a technical service request to Yamaha, so I am waiting on the reply to that before I authorize any more work to be done. If they come back and say they can fix it for a few hundred dollars dollars, I'll have it fixed. Otherwise, I'll have to decide if I want to make it a winter project and fix it myself or part it out and try again. The little bit I have ridden it, I love the bike, it fits me well. I just bought 2 new bikes in 2016 so I can't justify buying another new one yet...decisions, decisions....

 

[RossKean]

Best case scenario is that something simple fixes it - Seafoam (or Ringfree) treatment or (unlikely) a valve shim adjustment. Would anyone want to commit to expensive head work unless they will guarantee a fix for a reasonable price? I think I would go looking for an eBay engine to swap in before I did that.

See if Yamaha has anything interesting to say and take it from there.

 

[VersysRider]

Yamaha seemed to be baffled by the issue as they stated they have never encountered this issue with an FJR. The recommendation was to do a RingFree treatment, which was done and the bike ran better but still not correct. I authorized the dealer to do a valve check/adjustment since I have no idea when or if it has been done. We'll see how that turns out....

 

[08FJR4ME]

Did it have fresh gas in the tank?

Dave

 

[rbentnail]

Maybe I'm a little daffy but it sounds to me like the timing chain jumped 1 tooth on the crankshaft sprocket.

 

[VersysRider]

Did it have fresh gas in the tank?
Dave

Yep. I rode it from Nashville TN to Dayton Ohio. Ran about 4 tanks of seafoam through it.

 

[VersysRider]

Maybe I'm a little daffy but it sounds to me like the timing chain jumped 1 tooth on the crankshaft sprocket.

I suppose that's possible, but I think it would backfire. Worth a look though.

 

[VersysRider]

One thing I failed to mention was when I bought the bike, it appeared that it had NEVER been washed. With that in mind, if it was a cylinder issue, wouldn't the end of exhaust pipes show some evidence of oil burning or carbon deposits? The pipes had no black gunk on them at all.

 

[wetwolf]

OK, it runs rough off idle... How does it run up to the redline? I'm assuming you have already changed the oil and taken it out to thrash on it some more. Rough off of idle could be TB sync, the friggin lean spot that Yamamama programs into the fuel curve, and a myriad of other little stuff. Before I took my bike anywhere to get fixed I would definately check the compression myself, especially if it was what they dealer CLAIMED.

so, how does it run other than a stumble off idle?

 

[rbentnail]

Maybe I'm a little daffy but it sounds to me like the timing chain jumped 1 tooth on the crankshaft sprocket.

I suppose that's possible, but I think it would backfire. Worth a look though.

Nope, no backfiring when cams are timed right and the crank is off one tooth. Basic symptoms of this are rough idle and/or the idle can't be adjusted high enough to sometimes even keep it running; low gas mileage and stumbling off idle like it has bad gas; low compression on 1 but rarely 2+ cylinders.

A valve adjustment may well solve your problems not b/c the valves need adjusting but b/c the timing will [presumably] be correct when the job is done.