motorcyclist speeder charged with manslaughter

[v65]

This story is causing some debate around here as to who is to blame:

Local new story

potential fallout

Some say the trooper shouldn't have engaged in the high speed pursuit, others see the loss of a family man at the hands of punk sport bike rider. Not offering judgement, though the fact that the kid is being charged with manslaughter might be of interest to the community. Take it easy out there.

 

[Carnifex]

Engaging in any sort of high-speed pursuit in a SUV is damn near suicidal.

Pursing for a simple traffic violation, especially when there's next to zero chance of catching the violator (i.e. a motorcycle) is not smart.

I hate to see any LEO killed, but he should have known better. My department's pursuit policy is so close to a 'no pursuit' policy it might as well be one, and with good reason.

 

[Woodstock]

I think manslaugher is a little stiff here, but I can see their point. Esp, with the lawyer's comments, who, IMO, didn't do his client much good...

“He was riding his motorcycle, there were a couple of cars behind him, behind those two cars, he saw a police vehicle with lights flashing. And frankly, he didn’t know if it was for him, or any other motorists in the area,” David Savlov told our Alyson Megur on Monday.

That's just complete BS. He admits the motorcyclist _saw_ the LEO behind him with lights flashing, he was doing 100mph, and didn't know if it was for him? Um, I don't think so.

 

[rickysnickers]

but he should have known better

I'm sorry, but that comment and really uncalled for. Being a state trooper, that was his job! He has a duty to try to enforce the law. Just because your chief has tied your department's hands, don't pass the same judgement on this officer. Unfortunately, when we sign up for the job, there is chance that we could be killed. If I were to chase a shooting suspect, on foot, and got shot by said suspect, would I get the same commentary, "I should have known better?"

Rick

...flame suit ready

 

[toophast]

I say "good" if the potential fallout becomes law

as to the rest...wasn't there-no comment

toophast

 

[Carnifex]

[ Being a state trooper, that was his job! He has a duty to try to enforce the law. Just because your chief has tied your department's hands, don't pass the same judgement on this officer. Unfortunately, when we sign up for the job, there is chance that we could be killed.

Sixteen years on the job with the State Police in my state. I don't have a Chief, I have a Colonel.

And yes, he should have known better. It was a ******* traffic violation - is that worth your life? Was it worth his? How about the motorcyclist, or the bystanders in the other cars? Not for traffic - not ever for traffic. Pursuit for traffic violations is reckless and stupid. His senseless death just furthers that truth.

If I were to chase a shooting suspect, on foot, and got shot by said suspect, would I get the same commentary, "I should have known better?"

No, that's completely different - and if you are a Trooper (or any sort of cop) you know it.

 

[fjr]

Have to agree with Carnifex on this one. Chase in an SUV....not good.

 

[jestal]

I'm not about to condone running from the cops or stupid riding....but.....why is the motorcylist responsible for the cop not knowing how to drive??? If the cop pursued him and drove within his and the vehicle's limits the fatality would never have happened. I find it hard to understand exactly why the motorcyclist, no matter how stupid of a stunt he pulled, was responsible for the trooper's death. If he had forced the cop off the road or shot at him or something causing him to crash it might be different but for the guy to just crash driving too fast chasing him... Sounds like the cops fault to me.

It appears to me that too many pursuits turn into a real comedy of errors with cops taking completely unreasonable risks to catch someone for a very low level crime or traffic violation. The cop was pressing the accelerator and in control of his own vehicle and thus was responsible for his own death in my opinion. This is not like the kid shot him in a hold up or something. The cop just crashed and died. He could have done that speeding to traffic accident, fire, bank robbery or other emergency. Would those individuals involved be responsible for his death then because he couldn't drive? Makes you afraid to call 911 in an emergency if the cop could kill himself hurrying over like a cowboy and then you would be responsible for him crashing.

There was a similar situation here in Michigan not too long ago. Cop had a drunk stopped on the side of the road. Arrested him and had him cuffed in the back seat and went to take him to the station. Pulled off the shoulder of the expressway and made a u-turn.....directly in front of a car traveling down the left hand lane (4 travel lanes I think at this spot in each direction). Unfortunately, the driver the cop turned directly in front of was drunk. So....some think the drunk kid "caused the cops death". Hmmm.... Fortunately the jury had some sense and threw it out. Kid spent time in jail for drunk driving but his being drunk did not cause the accident. The cop did and was responsible.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I feel sad that two people made serious errors in judgement, and one was killed because of it. The DA obviously feels the need to make a statement to others that might try the same and let the justice system decide how much blame falls on the motorcyclist.

I realize that it does happen, but when's the last time a speeding motorcyclist killed or even seriously injured someone in an automobile? The odds are that the motorcyclist is going to kill himself and do some property damage. The LEO should have let him run and chased him with a radio.

 

[rickysnickers]

[ Being a state trooper, that was his job! He has a duty to try to enforce the law. Just because your chief has tied your department's hands, don't pass the same judgement on this officer. Unfortunately, when we sign up for the job, there is chance that we could be killed.

Sixteen years on the job with the State Police in my state. I don't have a Chief, I have a Colonel.

And yes, he should have known better. It was a ******* traffic violation - is that worth your life? Was it worth his? How about the motorcyclist, or the bystanders in the other cars? Not for traffic - not ever for traffic. Pursuit for traffic violations is reckless and stupid. His senseless death just furthers that truth.

If I were to chase a shooting suspect, on foot, and got shot by said suspect, would I get the same commentary, "I should have known better?"

No, that's completely different - and if you are a Trooper (or any sort of cop) you know it.

Been an officer for 18 years. Doesn't matter if it's a traffic violation or not. The guy was doing his job. We'll apparently have to agree to disagree. I think though that the officer was doing what he was suppose to do, and I still think you are wrong. I do and will chase a person for a traffic violation. It's their legal responsibility to pull over.

If other drivers see him not do anything what kind of message does that send to the motoring public?

As for the others info, I can only speak for the law here in CA. If a person is being actively pursued and the officer gets hurt or worse, then the law looks at it as though the suspect is responsible. In the eyes of the law, it's no different than killing a person while committing another crime. Believe it or not, knowingly running from the cops is a felony.

Rick

Rick

 

[Bearly Flying]

According to the Police statement in the article, The Bike was doing 100 mph the OPPOSITE direction from the Officer. By the time he slowed down, turned around and accelerated back up to pursuit speed the bike would be a couple MILES down the road. According to the Police statement the chase only lasted 2 minutes......The Biker wouldn't even have known he was back there.

 

[v65]

I posted this for two reasons:

1) I was unaware how severe the punishment could be for running. Not ever going to be a problem for me, but thought it might be of interest to the forum.

2) I was interested what police officers thought of this, and now I have an answer - sort of.

I personally have mixed feelings. Not a big fan of high speed pursuits, on the other hand I have family that lives on this street and can say with confidence that this was not an isolated incident. The police, and ultimately the DA, are obligated to put a stop to this somehow.

 

[Woodstock]

According to the Police statement in the article, The Bike was doing 100 mph the OPPOSITE direction from the Officer. By the time he slowed down, turned around and accelerated back up to pursuit speed the bike would be a couple MILES down the road. According to the Police statement the chase only lasted 2 minutes......The Biker wouldn't even have known he was back there.

Except that the guys lawyer said that the biker _did_ see/know the cop was back there, with his lights going.

 

[radman]

Interesting to see, that the 2 (that I know of) cop responses here, they are evenly split as to go/no go on chases. I seem to find about the same ratio here at work, amongst about 8 officers I talk to on a regular basis-including several who ride (though bikes weren't specifically brought up in conversation with each one).

 

[Bearly Flying]

A couple years ago, Someone robbed a bank in Northern Alberta, The Police were on the lookout for a particular brand of Car. They stop a Vehicle of Interest, The Cop is Hyped up, pulls his Gun and shoots himself in the leg. Should the Driver they stopped be charged????

A Police Officer was doing Traffic on Hiway 16, East of Edmonton. Meets somebody driving a little too fast, Flips on The lights and pulls a U turn right in front of a Semi. Guess what, the Semi couldn't stop. Officer was killed in the wreck. Should the speeding Driver be charged????

In the case of the Biker, sure he was speeding, (How many on this Forum haven't had their FJR up to 100 mph). He probably did see the Police. ( I have sped past Police before when they were already after someone else). The Bikers actions did not cause the Cop to crash.

 

[PerfectBlueride]

Well, this is a sad subject, but I have to state I do not believe it is the motorcyclist fault. Like states by another, he did not cause the SUV to crash, it was reckless driving by the person behind the wheel of the SUV.

I do feel sorry that something like this happened to anyone.

I think sometimes people just allow their emotions to take over, I'm sure that is what happened in this case, road rage on the officers behalf, maybe.

So we'll all just have to say a prayer for the families involved.

 

[mbottoms]

So, Common Sense and Good Judgement and responsibility for said go right out the window once the pursuit starts, no matter what the crime.

I'm sorry I shot the wrong guy, I was just doing my job. Oh, OK.

I'm sorry that I killed an inocent by-stander while in pursuit for a 10mph speeding offinse, but I was just doing my job.

What?

Catch the guy or die trying, doesn't sound very smart to me.

Tell me it ain't so.

Mark

 

[Scab]

Let's just hang all them damn motorcyclists now. They're all bad people, everybody knows it.

I wonder, would the charges be the same if the traffic violator had been an 89 year-old granny running 10 over the posted limit?

 

[sparky3008]

[ Being a state trooper, that was his job! He has a duty to try to enforce the law. Just because your chief has tied your department's hands, don't pass the same judgement on this officer. Unfortunately, when we sign up for the job, there is chance that we could be killed.

Sixteen years on the job with the State Police in my state. I don't have a Chief, I have a Colonel.

And yes, he should have known better. It was a ******* traffic violation - is that worth your life? Was it worth his? How about the motorcyclist, or the bystanders in the other cars? Not for traffic - not ever for traffic. Pursuit for traffic violations is reckless and stupid. His senseless death just furthers that truth.

If I were to chase a shooting suspect, on foot, and got shot by said suspect, would I get the same commentary, "I should have known better?"

No, that's completely different - and if you are a Trooper (or any sort of cop) you know it.

Been an officer for 18 years. Doesn't matter if it's a traffic violation or not. The guy was doing his job. We'll apparently have to agree to disagree. I think though that the officer was doing what he was suppose to do, and I still think you are wrong. I do and will chase a person for a traffic violation. It's their legal responsibility to pull over.

If other drivers see him not do anything what kind of message does that send to the motoring public?

As for the others info, I can only speak for the law here in CA. If a person is being actively pursued and the officer gets hurt or worse, then the law looks at it as though the suspect is responsible. In the eyes of the law, it's no different than killing a person while committing another crime. Believe it or not, knowingly running from the cops is a felony.

Rick

Rick

Who do you really think you are serving by chasing down a speeder?

I will start with speeding. It seems officers think they are saving the world by stopping speed violaters. IMHO traffic stops are revenue nothing more. Average speed around here when no freaking cop is around is over 70mph in a 55. That is 15 over and 5 points and a $200 fine. It is ******** to fine me this simply because once a week some cop gets assigned traffic duty. I am no more a criminal on that day than the rest of the week when everyone on the road is going just as fast.

Second, it might be your so call duty, which I will argue with but lets say it is. Your duty does not mean putting yourself at risk if you can't keep up because you have an inferior vehicle. If you think it is then you are probably a danger to yourself and lucky you made it 18 years.

This cop had choices, he obviously got the tags and identified him. I really don't understand why his word of this guy speeding mattered whether he got him today on the road or tomorrow at his house. Cowboy perhaps!!! Don't tell me you don't get off stopping people and chasing them seems to get you off too.

Protect and Serve. You also have a duty to your family. This guy made a bad choice.