motorcyclist speeder charged with manslaughter

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And geez, if speeding is such a problem on this road, set up a radar-triggered camera. Go get 'em tomorrow.

Whats a camera cost compared to someones life?

It was just a bad move. Period.

edit: On second thought, just set up an OBVIOUS camera. How many you think will speed by then?

 
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And geez, if speeding is such a problem on this road, set up a radar-triggered camera. Go get 'em tomorrow.Whats a camera cost compared to someones life?

It was just a bad move. Period.

edit: On second thought, just set up an OBVIOUS camera. How many you think will speed by then?
EXactly. Back to my revenue point. DC has dozens if not up in hundreds of traffic cameras for speeding that in the first year made millions. Now that people know they are there they have slowed down.

This is not about a cop protecting anyone, it is in the hope that with the ticket the speeder will slow down and with the cost of insurance it will be a deterrent. In fact it puts more people in danger when cops chase.

Put your tool back in your pants. For goodness sake all you cops. I have a mother and step dad who are cops and believe me I know how they drive. I know the entire Plano Police department and you guys speed just like everyone else. Stop with your holy attitude when it comes to speeding...

 
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It seems that every officer in this situation has to weigh the risk/benefit ratio and do what is prudent for that situation. If a kid goes by me doing 100 out in the open, on an interstate, flat and level, no one around yeah I'll chase him up to where I feel uncomfortable. But In town with other traffic, in a Tahoe that will flip easier than a car, I may chase up to 60-70mph, realizing that if I crash its my own fault. I'll take the risk. But to blame my wreck on someone I'm chasing is an abdication of my own responsibility in the situation.

 
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It seems that every officer in this situation has to weigh the risk/benefit ratio and do what is prudent for that situation. If a kid goes by me doing 100 out in the open, on an interstate, flat and level, no one around yeah I'll chase him up to where I feel uncomfortable. But In town with other traffic, in a Tahoe that will flip easier than a car, I may chase up to 60-70mph, realizing that if I crash its my own fault. I'll take the risk. But to blame my wreck on someone I'm chasing is an abdication of my own responsibility in the situation.
gr8eyes, have you changed professions or are you moonlighting :D :lol:

 
Interesting to see, that the 2 (that I know of) cop responses here, they are evenly split as to go/no go on chases. I seem to find about the same ratio here at work, amongst about 8 officers I talk to on a regular basis-including several who ride (though bikes weren't specifically brought up in conversation with each one).

Radman,

It is an interesting point of conversation. It seems that a lot of the east coast jurisdictions do not engage in chases, or severly limit them. Out on the west coast, it seems just the opposite. LAPD and CHP lead the state in the amount of chases that are done.

I will agree that they do get out of control sometimes. It takes a mature officer, that is in control of himself, to terminate a pursuit. I've had to do that once, due to heavy traffic. Honestly, I got plain scared. The other times we were able to catch the bad guy.

Rick

 
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This is not about a cop protecting anyone, it is in the hope that with the ticket the speeder will slow down and with the cost of insurance it will be a deterrent. In fact it puts more people in danger when cops chase.

Put your tool back in your pants. For goodness sake all you cops. I have a mother and step dad who are cops and believe me I know how they drive. I know the entire Plano Police department and you guys speed just like everyone else. Stop with your holy attitude when it comes to speeding...

Well, for starters "I don't get off" jamming people up or putting the public in danger. If someone chooses not to obey the law, then they know that there may be a price for them to pay at some point. Whether that be a fine or jail is up to somebody else. If someone deserves a ticket then they get one. I let more go than not. Also, I'm not the person that sets the fines. You would need to talk to your legislature and or judge about that.

The second thing is, the officer doesn't make the first decision when a chase starts. It's the person that is LEGALLY required to stop that initiates that chain of events.

Rick...all done

 
This is not about a cop protecting anyone, it is in the hope that with the ticket the speeder will slow down and with the cost of insurance it will be a deterrent. In fact it puts more people in danger when cops chase.

Put your tool back in your pants. For goodness sake all you cops. I have a mother and step dad who are cops and believe me I know how they drive. I know the entire Plano Police department and you guys speed just like everyone else. Stop with your holy attitude when it comes to speeding...

Well, for starters "I don't get off" jamming people up or putting the public in danger. If someone chooses not to obey the law, then they know that there may be a price for them to pay at some point. Whether that be a fine or jail is up to somebody else. If someone deserves a ticket then they get one. I let more go than not. Also, I'm not the person that sets the fines. You would need to talk to your legislature and or judge about that.

The second thing is, the officer doesn't make the first decision when a chase starts. It's the person that is LEGALLY required to stop that initiates that chain of events.

Rick...all done

Yea, whatever. I grew up around this stuff. Explorers (kids wanting to be cops) riding with cops. How much they get off on this stuff.

When a cop pulls me over and gives me attitude that I was speeding when just 10 minutes earlier he was tailgating the person in front of him because he wanted to do 80 in the fast lane to get down the road faster doesn't make me feel I should obey the law any more than him...

 
It is an interesting point of conversation. It seems that a lot of the east coast jurisdictions do not engage in chases, or severly limit them. Out on the west coast, it seems just the opposite. LAPD and CHP lead the state in the amount of chases that are done.
Crazy west coast cops.

No hard feelings there Ricky - just a difference of opinion.

 
For all you speed enforcers out there.

Why is it that I never see anyone stopped for not turning their lights on or windshield wipers on when it is raining. It is the law, it is for their safety, it is for the safety of those around them. As an ex-truck driver I know first hand how hard it is to see someone when it is raining and they don't turn their lights on. It is a safety hazard, the law and it is goes un enforced. I also see dozens of these people going down the highway all the time.

Why is it that the Slower Traffic Stay Right sign is not enforced? How many Road Rage cases do you think stem from people doing 55 in the fast lane going slower than the slow lane and people have to go around them.

The sign is there for a reason. How many lives would be saved if these people were taught that it is the law.

Nice how some laws are enforced and others aren't. Reckless driving in and out of lanes I understand but most speeding tickets I see given are for people simply going with the flow of traffic in the fast lane and it is no more than what everyone else and cops included are doing. They really aren't any danger to anyone.

Then there is the question of cops speeding and tailgating but who is going to stop them. I guess it is a perk of the job.

No free coffee and donuts are!!!

 
And geez, if speeding is such a problem on this road, set up a radar-triggered camera. Go get 'em tomorrow.Whats a camera cost compared to someones life?

It was just a bad move. Period.

edit: On second thought, just set up an OBVIOUS camera. How many you think will speed by then?
Point taken.

 
We had another situation in Michigan where a cop was killed late at night. He had pulled a semi over for speeding at 3:00 AM and had him stopped on the side of the interstate. Another semi comes along, drifts onto the shoulder (falls asleep...??) and drives the trouper's car under the semi he had stopped killing him in the process. The news media makes it out like the trooper was "killed" by the speeding driver or the sleepy driver. They practically make a hero out of him for his reported zeal in stopping speeding semis during his night shift. Kind of makes you want to go hhhmmmm....... What is more dangerous?...a semi running 75 or 80 at night when there is no traffic or creating an obstacle on the side of the interstate where any traffic drifting off the centerline will hit it?? I vote for letting the speeders go and stop creating unsafe situations on the side of the interstate. As far as I'm concerned, given the severity of the situation the cop should be sued for creating an unsafe situation in the middle of the night. Instead of the rumble strips alerting the driver he was drifting off the road he ends up in a severe reck and killing someone because the cop created a situation that shouldn't exist on the side of the interstate.

Along these same lines, why do cops think they are absolutely bulletproof to other traffic?? They stop on the side of the interstate, whip open their doors and hop out in front of traffic as if it was everyone else's duty to miss them? If I walked around on the side of the interstate and was killed they would write me up as an *****. When a cop gets killed by traffic on the road he is a hero??? Spare me.

Stopping cars on the side of the interstate is a rediculous move that should be outlawed period. It puts the officier in jeapordy, the motorist stopped in jeapordy and creates a target for other traffic to hit and causes MANY other unsafe moves as people swerve to move over a lane and miss them and slam on the brakes because they suddenly see a cop. If someone is really breaking the law THAT bad then follow them and pull them off an exit ramp.

Twice I have had cops cross the median on an interstate, make a u turn and pull into traffic directly in front of me causing me to have to slam on the brakes and make evasive moves to avoid them......all so they could chase down a speeder in front of me. Cowboys.....sorry to all the officiers that mind their p's and q's but I see WAY too much cowboy activity to bust someone for simple infractions that were way safer than the bust ended up being. I think most cops loose it with the adrenaline rush of stopping someone despite statements to the contrary.

As long as I am unloading on the cops....how about the freeways in Detroit...?? During rush hour when things are moving the traffic flows along bumper to bumper at 90 MPH in spots. Not a cop to be seen and things move great. Middle of the day....cops throw out the gauntlet on I696 and bust people right and left for speeding 10 over. They disappear about 3:00 and the traffic flows along fine at 90 again. Hmmm.... Pure revenue generation. Convince me otherwise. It seems OK and plenty safe to run 90 in rush hour bumper to bumper but somehow 70 becomes a reason for speeding in the middle of the day when traffic is light? Right......

 
My thoughts are that none of the posts are really bounded well. I believe it's all about quickly understanding the risks involved. Examples:

A dangerous driver should definately be persued and stopped from dangerous driving.

Law enforcement should be trained (and I believe that they are) as to what risks should be taken to save other peoples lives, and should set an example. Most cops I know are hard working sincere folks, but there are the testosterone filled "big man" cops that will take unnecessary risks and endanger themselves and others just to be the "big man".

It depends on what risks are necessary in the situation, and it's up to the cop to make a split second decision, that may cost him/her their own lives.... they should have more slack.

Anyways -- not enough data on the details of risk assessment here.

 
Interesting thread. I would not say the biker killed the cop in this story, the cop made an error.

Adrenaline is a powerful thing. Some cannot control it. Cops are human, which means, not perfect.

There are cases of cops crossing the line, and there are cases when cops are commendable and professional.

Very excessive speed is dangerous, but speeding is general is not horrible.

 
My 2 cents

I think there is a small, itty bitty tinsy weansy bit of LEO bashing here. Not all unfounded. Some of the worst drivers I know are cops. I'll ride with a buddy to a shop in his car. "ya every heard of the 2 second rule, I feel like I in the other car", I'll tell him He passes on double yellows when we are on bikes. He says he is just use to riding people ***** to get tag info check out the car, etc. Just habit. I've told him he makes me uncomfortable with his driving. Many more examples from just this one individual.

But last Halloween, I was trick-or treating with the kids in the hood, we are talking (he is on duty), a car flies by doing 60 or better in a residential neighborhood with kids walking the streets. He is facing the wrong way to pursue. He lights up the car, turns around, lays rubber and takes off in pursuit. he come back a few min latter, I ask if he got the speeder? He replied no.... to dangerous to pursue, I broke it off.

We are talking philosophy here, does the means justify the end: get that damn speede no mater what.

Do you shoot a shoplifter, was the shoplifter stealing food to feed his kids that haven't eaten in 2 days?

Do you shoot a child molester, hell yes no matter what.

Do I feel the biker is responsible for the troopers death, no, is it a tragic loss ,Hell Yes, Should the trooper use the radio, yes,(speculation on facts) if he had the tag get him latter, if he didn't have the tags and the pusuit was to dangerous (which it obviously was) oh well, he got away TODAY!

Ricky- I am sorry, you keep going back to the speeder is "legally required to pull over" He is breaking the law in the first place by speeding, whats to stop him from breaking a few more

Honestly Ricky, I don't mean to pick on you, but with the "legal" thing have you ever broken the Law? I do almost daily. 30 in a 25, 75 in a 70, roll a stop sign, etc.

Cops are held to a higher standard. Is it fair? No, But they are. Do they break the same laws off duty (or on for that matter) that they will give you a ticket for, yes. Do cops get prefferential treatment from other cops? You betcha! Should they? ethically no, every one is the same in the eyes of the law, right? Do they deserve a break for their thankless job? you betcha!

To me, this falls into the same catagory as gun mfgs are responsible for murder, not the POS that pulled the trigger. We do not have all the facts of the case, did a tire blow out? sue Firestone. would you charge the biker if he was doing 40 in a 30 and the trooper straightend a curve and hit a tree? It would appear the pursuit should have been broken off. The fact that the biker did or did not know the trooper was behind him is irrelivant?sp If the speed involved was dangerous break it off! Bottom line it really sucks for the trooper and his survivors

OK maybe that was 5 cents

 
Okay, only Jestal is allowed to post that long. Staighten up, Fencer.

 
It is an interesting point of conversation. It seems that a lot of the east coast jurisdictions do not engage in chases, or severly limit them. Out on the west coast, it seems just the opposite. LAPD and CHP lead the state in the amount of chases that are done.
Crazy west coast cops.

No hard feelings there Ricky - just a difference of opinion.

No worries... :)

Rick

FJRFencer,

I never claimed nor said that I was prefect, nor did I ever mention that I don't break the speed limit. However, lately, with gas prices the way they are, $3.35 a gallon for regular, my truck goes 60 mph in the slow lane. The motorcycle doesn't go much faster than that anymore either. :)

Rick

 
Opinions are like ********, everybody has one. Accept the fact you might be alone in yours and move on. A couple of you are forgetting someone lost their life and there is a little kid out there whose dad didn't come home.

This is/will be my one and only post on this thread. The advesarial comments of some of you (cops and non-cops alike) is disappointing.

I'm out.

 
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