Musings from Dad helping his daughter buy her first new car

[Cav47]

@Bounce, as for your #3 about buying a car, I hate the dealing with the dealership too, but my experience is not negative with the salesmen. It seems like the salesmen now are just a frontline for the "sales managers" They are the ones with power. The salesmen do not have any ability to make a decision. I generally do what I can to bypass them in the transaction. Or warn them if they try to play games. But I agree, they can be sleazy.

@Pants, did you really not haggle at all with the car?? I know you are frugal and like to get a good deal, so make them throw in something. The great part of the internet is that you can know exactly what they are making on the deal and then shop your desire for accessories around to other dealerships. Floor mats, oil changes, car washes, mud flaps, and appearance items are all things I have got the dealer to "throw in" for staying at their dealership.

Thanks for sharing the experience with us. It is cool to see this happen. I might make my oldest read this as a precursor to a future experience he will have sooner than I would like to admit.

It's not as good as your ride reports, but we will take what we can get from you for now.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Maybe you should let your daughter talk to my wife. Mrs. Redfish could probably explain to your daughter how to get the car (or anything else) she wants without any money. While Mrs. Redfish has been gainfully employed for 30+ years, she still does not make much money. In spite of that she manages to drive some pretty nice vehicles and she lives pretty well. Taylor could definitely benefit from what Mrs. Redfish knows.

 

[Fred W]

Sorry, Andrew, I do not think that you'll be the least bit successful at upgrading your Mrs Redfish for Mr Pants' daughter with a promise of fancy cars, or at any price. But by all means stay optimistic my friend.

 

[yanktar]

I realized, reading this, that it's not too far in MY future: my son, the little kid last time I was on an FJR group ride, is going to be 21 in the spring, and graduating college the following year! Where DID the time go?

 

[Fred W]

@yanktar - Your (potentially) best part of child rearing is ahead of you. The part where you reap the rewards of all of your hard work, and get to see your adult children flourish, and be successful, and be happy.

Don't sweat the little stuff like buying cars, getting married, buying houses, etc. As Pants has just related, it ain't all that hard if you are able to keep your own ego in your back pocket. Just consider that they got the best possible training in life that they could have.. from you.

 

[Big Sky]

I'd hate to be the salesman who had to deal with Mrs. Sky. I am a sap by comparison. She is of Scandinavian North Dakota Wheat Farm heritage and is therefore... uh, er... real frugal. She can make a car salesman weep and a sales manager gnash his teeth. I'm too embarrassed to go car shopping with her anymore. The last time the sales guys kept looking at me for help and mercy. All I could do was shrug. They were on their own. She once dug her heels in, then walked away from a deal on a new Camry when she and the dealer were $250 apart.

Anyway, sounds like Mr. Pants has raised up a real sensible like daughter. No wonder, given her pedigree. Congrats to the new car owner and the proud papa.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Sorry, Andrew, I do not think that you'll be the least bit successful at upgrading your Mrs Redfish for Mr Pants' daughter with a promise of fancy cars, or at any price. But by all means stay optimistic my friend.

Not my intention at all. I have no intention of "upgrading" and in all fairness, it would be very, very difficult to "upgrade" on the model I currently pay for. Mrs. Redfish is awesome. Added to that is the fact that Mr. Pants is a very dear friend. Hitting on his daughter is NOT going to happen.

What I meant was that Mrs. Redfish could certainly give a young woman lessons on how to demand, receive, and keep the respect and adoration of her partner. Mrs. Redfish gets what she wants because I want to keep her happy.

The thought of the boyfriend telling young Taylor what she needs to buy just pisses me off. Does he tell her when she needs to buy herself flowers? If he thinks she needs a Camaro he needs to come up with the money himself.

 

[HotRodZilla]

1. She shoulda bought a truck.

2. All a "no haggle" policy means is that they're gonna over charge you and don't want to argue about it. Car Max is "no haggle" and is always $4-$6k above MSRP.

3. Whatever...So long as she's happy, that's what matters! Good work pants!

 

[Fred W]

2. All a "no haggle" policy means is that they're gonna over charge you and don't want to argue about it. Car Max is "no haggle" and is always $4-$6k above MSRP.

Not always. I have no experience with Car Max, but there is a multi-brand car dealership in Concord NH (Grappone) that has gone to a published Internet pricing (meaning aggressive) no-haggle approach and is doing quite well with it. The idea is that you can look up the price on the car that you want before you set foot in any dealership, go shop around and try to make your best deal elsewhere, and finally go to them and make the deal that they advertised when you find it is the lowest. And they do that for both new and preowned cars. That tactic wouldn't work if you were pricing them all high.

 

[hppants]

Good discussion - thanks to everyone for your contributions.

At the MSRP "no haggle" price of $17,600.00 (including destination charges), considering its direct competition, the Scion iA isn't gouging anyone. The salesman has shown me the invoice on that vehicle and the dealer markup is less than $500.00. I am aware of dealer holdback and other factory incentives - there is no point in debating any of that. I think in the case of this vehicle, because everyone pays the same, in the truest sense of the term, the market price is the market value.

My previous comment was to point out that my daughter, like my son and virtually everyone else their age that I know or have met, has a significant lack of interpersonal communication skills. They have the technological skills to put someone on the moon, but good luck selling the idea. People my age know that regardless of what you do, to be successful, sooner or later, you have to collect intelligent thoughts, compose yourself, look someone straight in the eye, and tell them what you want. At 24, I had already done that (successfully and unsuccessfully) MANY times in different environments. I've been an administrator at a 17,000 student University for 26 years - that doesn't make me an expert at anything, but I've seen this generation very closely. At least twice a semester, I am invited to give a guest lecture for some class on campus. After I'm done speaking about whatever they asked me to, I always tell the class that if they want to get the most out of their education here, LEARN and PRACTICE on technical writing and public speaking.

Not withstanding my friends' intelligent and tongue-in-cheek comment, and certainly agreeing with his take on Mrs. Redfish's abilities,

another thing worth mentioning here is one of my personal philosophies on fathering a daughter. Let's face it - if she even gets married, she's got a 50% chance of divorcing her spouse. Any kid she gives birth to has a 30% chance of being raised by her alone, and a 55% chance of being raised by a part time dad. Down here in the deep south, some things have certainly progressed over the past 100 years. But some things still have a LONG way to go. One such thing is the undeniable fact that a woman simply doesn't have the same earnings potential and vocational opportunities that men do. The oilfield, petro-chemical, agricultural, and fisheries industries are still HUGELY male-dominated fields. From a very young age, I taught my daughter to get educated and seek a job that would not only make her happy, but give her a realistic chance to earn a decent living. If she wants to marry (or not) and have babies - that would be wonderful. But if she gets caught up in those horrifying statistics, then at least she will have the ability to make her own money and most importantly - not have to rely on a man for anything.

My methodologies were completely different and admittedly somewhat prejudiced for my 20-year old son. It's just not the same and I can't change the way the world turns.

This past weekend has given me a chance to reflect on this and share thoughts with my wife and you. We are very proud.

 

[Bounce]

Maybe you should let your daughter talk to my wife. Mrs. Redfish could probably explain to your daughter how to get the car (or anything else) she wants without any money. While Mrs. Redfish has been gainfully employed for 30+ years, she still does not make much money. In spite of that she manages to drive some pretty nice vehicles and she lives pretty well. Taylor could definitely benefit from what Mrs. Redfish knows.

Are you suggesting she marry some old phart that spends all his time fishing?

People my age know that...

What age is that? While practiced in both public speaking (technical and otherwise) and technical writing, I still despise the gutterish game of "haggling".

As for daughters not hanging their lives on snagging a man, a house, and dishes, I am 100% in agreement. Both my daughters were taught to stand on their own two feet and not think that some pipe dream Barbie lifestyle was something to envy.

 

[yanktar]

@yanktar - Your (potentially) best part of child rearing is ahead of you. The part where you reap the rewards of all of your hard work, and get to see your adult children flourish, and be successful, and be happy.
Don't sweat the little stuff like buying cars, getting married, buying houses, etc. As Pants has just related, it ain't all that hard if you are able to keep your own ego in your back pocket. Just consider that they got the best possible training in life that they could have.. from you.

I certainly hope so! We do miss him, though he usually calls in to Skype every week. However, he's doing well, and got to do his own thing. And no way in HELL we want him to live at home, for his sanity and ours!

Not QUITE ready for grand-kids (not that I have any say in it), though my brother has some.

 

[Fred W]

@yanktar - Your (potentially) best part of child rearing is ahead of you. The part where you reap the rewards of all of your hard work, and get to see your adult children flourish, and be successful, and be happy.
Don't sweat the little stuff like buying cars, getting married, buying houses, etc. As Pants has just related, it ain't all that hard if you are able to keep your own ego in your back pocket. Just consider that they got the best possible training in life that they could have.. from you.

I certainly hope so! We do miss him, though he usually calls in to Skype every week. However, he's doing well, and got to do his own thing. And no way in HELL we want him to live at home, for his sanity and ours!

Not QUITE ready for grand-kids (not that I have any say in it), though my brother has some.

Grandkids are fun too, in a different way. We've got 2 of them (so far).

You get to enjoy them, spoil them rotten, then send them home with their parents, your kids.

It's called payback.

 

[mcatrophy]

...Grandkids are fun too, in a different way. We've got 2 of them (so far). You get to enjoy them, spoil them rotten, then send them home with their parents, your kids.

It's called payback.

Except, when both parents are working, you sometimes have to look after them for a day, or even overnight. The amount of energy a 3- and a 6-year old have to get rid of during a day is incredible. Looking after them is when I really start to feel my age.

 

[ionbeam]

...Grandkids are fun too, in a different way. We've got 2 of them (so far). You get to enjoy them, spoil them rotten, then send them home with their parents, your kids.

It's called payback.

Except, when both parents are working, you sometimes have to look after them for a day, or even overnight. The amount of energy a 3- and a 6-year old have to get rid of during a day is incredible. Looking after them is when I really start to feel my age.

Fred's wife was 'hired' to watch the grandkids so they were at his house all the time. Fred goes for very long motorcycle rides all the time.... :lol:

 

[Fred W]

S'truth!

But now that they are both school aged, Josie's daycare providing hours have been severely cut back.

Of course she's on a "salary", so her compensation package is the still the same (zero).

 

[yanktar]

@yanktar - Your (potentially) best part of child rearing is ahead of you. The part where you reap the rewards of all of your hard work, and get to see your adult children flourish, and be successful, and be happy.
Don't sweat the little stuff like buying cars, getting married, buying houses, etc. As Pants has just related, it ain't all that hard if you are able to keep your own ego in your back pocket. Just consider that they got the best possible training in life that they could have.. from you.

I certainly hope so! We do miss him, though he usually calls in to Skype every week. However, he's doing well, and got to do his own thing. And no way in HELL we want him to live at home, for his sanity and ours!

Not QUITE ready for grand-kids (not that I have any say in it), though my brother has some.

Grandkids are fun too, in a different way. We've got 2 of them (so far).

You get to enjoy them, spoil them rotten, then send them home with their parents, your kids.

It's called payback.

It's not that I don't want and appreciate the idea of grandkids (at 60, I'm both old enough and young enough for them), it's that he's not yet at a point in his life where becoming a dad won't totally screw everything up for him, still being a college student working day and night on his studies.

I've long quoted this bit of wisdom: "The reason grandparents and grandchildren get along so well is they have a common enemy!"

 

[yanktar]

1. She shoulda bought a truck.
2. All a "no haggle" policy means is that they're gonna over charge you and don't want to argue about it. Car Max is "no haggle" and is always $4-$6k above MSRP.

3. Whatever...So long as she's happy, that's what matters! Good work pants!

I laughed at this. I've had my new truck for just about a year now and love it! Never, ever thought I'd buy a Chevrolet anything ever again (my first and last being an '81 Citation

). But this Silverado makes the Tundra it replaced look like a POS. With a crew cab and a standard length bed, and my plow moved to it, it's the do-everything, go-anywhere, haul-anything vehicle. And it even averages 21mpg on the highway. (don't ask about in-town mileage!)

Yeah, "no haggle" usually means you get screwed. But if CostCo has a deal with a company, you frequently get a pretty good price, well below MSRP. I lucked out because they gave me a lot more than they felt they should have for my Tundra, but NMP.

Keeping our kids happy without spoiling them is the key to both their and our happiness!

 

[hppants]

We picked up the car last night. I think the color is rich and it makes the car look perhaps a smidge more upscale than it is. The salesman was nothing short of professional and he worked very hard to earn his few hundred bucks. He knew she was a first timer and he went very slow to make sure she understood every step of the way. She got the 0.9 for 60 months from Toyota. He was also able to get her the $750.00 college grad factory incentive, which I thought was great considering most vehicle financing offers are in lieu of other factory incentives. Apparently, this is not the case with the College incentive.

The salesman was going over the Buyer's Offer with her:

(Sales) "This is the price of the car including your accessories and before TTL"

(Tootie) "What's TTL"

(Sales) "Tax Title and License. This is the amount for sales tax."

(Tootie) "That much for tax?"

(Sales) "Yes Ma'am. Your a big girl now and you have to pay REAL taxes."

(Pants, smirking) LOL

(Sales) "And this is your title fee and license fee. So this is the total price of the car. This is your down payment that you are going to pay now. And this is your M&D Down Payment Assistance."

(Tootie) "What's M&D Down Payment Assistance"

(Sales) "That stands for Mom and Dad Down Payment Assistance."

She looked at me.

Pants winks and smiles.

(Tootie) "Awww thanks Dad."

(Pants) "You're welcome Tootie. I love you."

The sit down with the finance manager was "interesting" but she got through it and down the road she goes!!!!

 

[lonerider]

Hope she has many safe and enjoyable miles behind the wheel.