My dealer is going to hate me

[Roadstar]

Well as the story goes , i bought my FJR used with 16,000mi on it. Well as advertised (saved the add) it said the bike was fully serviced & the sales guy said just get on it and ride since it was fully serviced. Well yesterday the dealer called me about the recall on the ignition switch , & the tech guys says that he noticed that it was due for the 16,000mi service :blink: so while he had the tank off & top tree he would only charge $225.00 instead of $450.00 for the service. Well i think i shocked him when i told him i just bought the bike from them 2 months ago & only put 180mi`s on it & as advertised it was fully serviced. :angry2:

So he tells me that doing the fork tree bearings & changing of the plugs & changing - or cleaning of the air filter isn`t part of there service when they get the bike ready to show on the used floor section. Well i`m going there tomorrow morning & tell them what transpired with the service tech & think while they have the bike (this tuesday the 10th of 09) that they owe me a full service or show me when they supposedly did it (since there records don`t show it)

What do you guys think ??? am i wrong

 

[Bokerfork]

"Fully serviced" is a bit ambiguous so it depends on what was actually discussed and more precisely, what was in writing. Good luck nonetheless.

 

[Toecutter]

Give 'em hell! Use terms like "Lack of good faith" and "Fraudulent". That usually warms 'em up....

 

[Roadstar]

"Fully serviced" is a bit ambiguous so it depends on what was actually discussed and more precisely, what was in writing. Good luck nonetheless.

Well the only thing i have in writing is the advertisement add , so i`m sure i`ll leave pissed off (as i always do when going to the dealer) He acted like he was doing me a favor while they had the tank off , as i told him that yea you just save yourself 5 min.

 

[dcarver]

Run. Run like hell from the StealerDealer or have a full plan in place to hold them accountable.

Unacceptable... :angry:

 

[twistedcricket]

Is there another dealer in the area? I'd go there. Also, keep calm when you present this if you decide to go back to this dealer. They won't do their best if you yell and scream and such.

"Fully Serviced" may not mean that they performed all of the maintenance due according to the service manual. They could make up their own definition of "service"

It could just mean they made sure the air pressure is up to par

 

[Toecutter]

"Fully Serviced" may not mean that they performed all of the maintenance due according to the service manual. They could make up their own definition of "service"

To me, that term sounds prett self-explanatory. The dealer has service records to back up 16,000 miles worth of service. Your bad that you trusted them and didn't get it in writing before riding off?

Their idea of "Fully serviced" is probably more along the lines of what they did to you....

 

[exskibum]

Well, if it had 16,000 miles on it when you bought it, then it was at a designated service mileage called out in the Yamaha Service Manual. "Fully Serviced" might be ambiguous if there was no reference to interpret the sales representation. But to interpret the usual, customary or reasonable meaning of that phrase, I'd look to the Service Manual's service guidelines for that mileage. That's what most would agree is the minimum state of maintenance described as "fully serviced", I think.

At, over or even slightly under 16,000 miles at the time of purchase (the customary range for which a service department would do a 16,000 service) seems to qualify for having had that 16,000 mile service done before the sale, as represented.

Only difference I can see between the two 16,000 mile services at issue here is that in one, the service department is in your pocket at their full rate to do what you were promised in your deal with the sales department. In the other, you were sold a phantom service that enhanced the sales department's profits (since they didn't even pay the dealership cost for the service while getting a price from you based upon all required service having been done). Seems to me you're paying for the 16,000 mile service twice by their methods.

Beyond any issue of ambiguity, is it fraud? For the most part, that would be answered by this question: Did the dealership make a promise they didn't intend to fulfill at the time they made it? If they knew that a scheduled service was not done before the sale while they were representing that it was, then the best way out of that for them is to have "intended" to do the 16,000 mile service when you next came in to patronize their service department.

I'd talk to the manager, be polite but firm, and willing to "be understanding" about the "misunderstanding" that the service department obviously has. If I didn't get some sort of apology and direction to the service department to make it right, I'd politely tell the manager that I'd be getting the service done at another dealer, would be getting a bill for that, and would be asking his stealership to pay that bill in the small claims action I'd be filing as soon I could get that 16,000 mile service scheduled and done.

BTW, Toe is also right about talking "lack of good faith" in addition to "fraudulent". If you really want to use the code words, make it a "lack of good faith and fair dealing." In many states, that's a breach of contract claim (short of the preconceived evil intent of fraud, but actionable, anyway). The idea is that implied in every contract is a covenant to treat the other party with good faith and fair dealing in allowing him or her the benefit of the bargain. It's not as threatening or punchy as "fraud" (which can allow additional damages), but it's something to assert to the small claims judge.

 

[BulletBrad]

Well as the story goes , i bought my FJR used with 16,000mi on it. Well as advertised (saved the add) it said the bike was fully serviced & the sales guy said just get on it and ride since it was fully serviced. Well yesterday the dealer called me about the recall on the ignition switch , & the tech guys says that he noticed that it was due for the 16,000mi service :blink: so while he had the tank off & top tree he would only charge $225.00 instead of $450.00 for the service. Well i think i shocked him when i told him i just bought the bike from them 2 months ago & only put 180mi`s on it & as advertised it was fully serviced. :angry2: So he tells me that doing the fork tree bearings & changing of the plugs & changing - or cleaning of the air filter isn`t part of there service when they get the bike ready to show on the used floor section. Well i`m going there tomorrow morning & tell them what transpired with the service tech & think while they have the bike (this tuesday the 10th of 09) that they owe me a full service or show me when they supposedly did it (since there records don`t show it)

What do you guys think ??? am i wrong

As a service writer this is one of those things I get to deal with ALL the time. Sales wants to put as little money into a used bike as possible and our service department wants to give you the best used ride we can. Who gets yelled at when the customer comes back in 180 miles and needs some new brakes or that worn out battery left them by the side of the road? Service does and normally with both barrels. I would say, grab your sales person and ask them to explain what fully serviced means at their dealership. I run into it all the time plus the other fun one. Customer rides in, "I want my free service that was included in my deal". Sales just LUV to do that one. I just pull up their deal and ask where it was included, and then when they see SALES didn't list it, send them over to their sales person. At our dealership we always change the oil, oil filter, lube chains if required, check the air filter and all the brakes, lights, and anything else safety related plus run a check on the batteries state of life. We do get shot down many times when sales doesn't want to put $$$ in a used bike, but we do try. I'd do your best to get on the service managers good side since you will be dealing with them much more than the sales folks. I've always tried to do that with all my cars, trucks, bikes, boats and shoot, even my lawnmower. Just food for thought ...... now back to my popcorn and the Hillbilly Ninja. :yahoo:

 

[Khunajawdge]

I'd talk to the manager, be polite but firm, and willing to "be understanding" about the "misunderstanding" that the service department obviously has. If I didn't get some sort of apology and direction to the service department to make it right, I'd politely tell the manager that I'd be getting the service done at another dealer, would be getting a bill for that, and would be asking his stealership to pay that bill in the small claims action I'd be filing as soon I could get that 16,000 mile service scheduled and done.
Toe is also right about talking "lack of good faith" in addition to "fraudulent". If you really want to use the code words, make it a "lack of good faith and fair dealing." In many states, that's a breach of contract claim (short of the preconceived evil intent of fraud, but actionable, anyway). The idea is that implied in every contract is a covenant to treat the other party with good faith and fair dealing in allowing him or her the benefit of the bargain. It's not as threatening or punchy as "fraud" (which can allow additional damages), but it's something to assert to the small claims judge.

Oh man, you are lucky! All of this "advice" usually does not come for free! I'd use it!

You are on your own, of course..."best" of luck with it!

 

[exskibum]

As a service writer this is one of those things I get to deal with ALL the time. Sales wants to put as little money into a used bike as possible and our service department wants to give you the best used ride we can. Who gets yelled at when the customer comes back in 180 miles and needs some new brakes or that worn out battery left them by the side of the road? Service does and normally with both barrels. I would say, grab your sales person and ask them to explain what fully serviced means at their dealership. I run into it all the time plus the other fun one. Customer rides in, "I want my free service that was included in my deal". Sales just LUV to do that one. I just pull up their deal and ask where it was included, and then when they see SALES didn't list it, send them over to their sales person. At our dealership we always change the oil, oil filter, lube chains if required, check the air filter and all the brakes, lights, and anything else safety related plus run a check on the batteries state of life. We do get shot down many times when sales doesn't want to put $$$ in a used bike, but we do try. I'd do your best to get on the service managers good side since you will be dealing with them much more than the sales folks. I've always tried to do that with all my cars, trucks, bikes, boats and shoot, even my lawnmower. Just food for thought ...... now back to my popcorn and the Hillbilly Ninja. :yahoo:

Yeah, big surprise it's Service that gets the blame, huh? But since sales and service are part of one dealership, I'm sure typical rules are in force: the **** flows downhill, blame whomever works best for the bottom line, etc. But as you point out, it's Sales that is making the representations and making deals based upon those representations. Unfortunate that when they get called on this sort of thing, Service gets scapegoated.

You also make a good point about a lot of less reasonable service demands (e.g., battery dies a couple months post sale and buyer wants a new one**). But a bike being sold with 16,000 miles on it while being represented as "fully serviced" says loud and clear to me that the sales department is selling the bike as having had the last scheduled service (16,000 miles in this case) -- just the same as if that bike had been brought in to pay for the same service.

I'd enjoy asking the salesman what "fully serviced" means to him, whether it is in any way related to Yamaha and dealership recommended service, and just what he believes this or any buyer thinks it means. One of the remedies for fraud is rescission, which means the dealership gets the bike back and the buyer gets his money back. Not saying that a judgment of fraud and rescission is likely here, but as a manager in this economy, I think I'd be playing this one for a free 16,000 mile service.

** A representation that a bike is "fully serviced" is not the same as a warranty on used parts for some period of time.

 

[SCWatts]

I'd start with the sales rep and point to the manual where it shows the 16,000 mile service, remind the sales rep of what he said, then tell him that word must not have gotten to the service department because the "full service" had not been performed. Ask for his help in straightening it out.

If he says he "only meant" a limited service, ask for the sales manager.

Going through the original sales rep first, in my opinion, will give you the best chance of getting it done.

And if you're unsuccessful, or maybe even if you are successful, look for another dealership . . . .

 

[ShawnKing]

At our dealership we always change the oil, oil filter, lube chains if required, check the air filter and all the brakes, lights, and anything else safety related plus run a check on the batteries state of life.

Which dealership is that?

 

[ShawnKing]

I'd talk to the manager, be polite but firm, and willing to "be understanding" about the "misunderstanding" that the service department obviously has. If I didn't get some sort of apology and direction to the service department to make it right, I'd politely tell the manager that I'd be getting the service done at another dealer, would be getting a bill for that, and would be asking his stealership to pay that bill in the small claims action I'd be filing as soon I could get that 16,000 mile service scheduled and done.
Toe is also right about talking "lack of good faith" in addition to "fraudulent". If you really want to use the code words, make it a "lack of good faith and fair dealing." In many states, that's a breach of contract claim (short of the preconceived evil intent of fraud, but actionable, anyway). The idea is that implied in every contract is a covenant to treat the other party with good faith and fair dealing in allowing him or her the benefit of the bargain. It's not as threatening or punchy as "fraud" (which can allow additional damages), but it's something to assert to the small claims judge.

Oh man, you are lucky! All of this "advice" usually does not come for free! I'd use it!

Yeah - "exskibum" sounds like he's one o them there lawyer type fellas....He also sounds like he knows what he's talking about and is giving good advice I'd certainly take if I were in "Roadstar"s shoes.

Good luck.

 

[Roadstar]

Thanks guys

Ill be leaving here at 9:30 am to go to the dealer on the way to work (yes i work on saturdays :angry2: ) But will confront the salesman that sold me the bike first & go up from there. The person that tradded in the bike , had all the service done there (even tires) & even logged it in the back of the owners manual (didn`t put his name though) At least the service guy did tell me they did have the ECU changed & the new top box mounting pad & i also have to ask , why i didn`t get anything in the mail about the Y.E.S. that was transfered over to me when i bought the bike. ??? (AHHH the problems keep coming) I didn`t even put enough miles on it to even say , this is the bike i`ll keep for a real long time. (even though she is pretty :dribble: )

 

[Bigbeavk]

So sorry to here you're having an issue. First step when you come back from the dealer if you have not received the service as promised. Look up your States Attorney's number and file a complaint. Make sure you have the names and paperwork to present your complaint. The States Attorney will handle this for you. All it took for me was a phone call but you may need to scan your evidence and email it to them. I hope you don't need to go this route but the States Attorney is there to serve you for consumer fraud like this. I hope we see good faith instead by the dealer but crooks are crooks so we will see just what they are soon.

Good Luck.

Let us know if you need help finding the States Attorney up there.

 

[kolonial72]

Roadstar (isn't it time to change your screen name??), sorry to hear of your plight. I've heard some distasteful things about the sales staff at that particular dealership, but I've found the service department to be some decent and professional chaps. Sales staff doesn't seem to give two sh*ts about you unless you are looking at an off-road cycle or 4-wheeler.

That said, check out complaints already lodged with BBB or, if possible, the state. When you bough the bike, did it have 16,000 miles or more? Or was it just under 16,000 miles? That would probably make a huge difference. Also, definitely save every scrap of paper having to do with the sale, including any advertisements.

Oh, and come riding with us tomorrow - it's theraputic. Going to Timonium to the bike show! Give me a PM if youre' interested.

 

[user 213]

I let this one go the first time I read it, but there's a lot of angst showing here.

Big +1 on the Sales Vs Service, each has a different job, and different guidelines. Some burden was on you to verify what service work had actually been done, rather than just taking the Sales guy's word. Ditto on the under or over 16k comments.

Now, let's just cut to the chase here, $225 to check or change your spark plugs, blow off some dust from your air filter and re-torque the steering head bearings? Screw that noise, these are all things you can easily do yourself. Write ups exist on the net at various places like FJRTech and this guy even made up a web page for all the tech links - FJR Tech links

The only thing needing a special tool is the steering head bearing nut, and you might have someone local to you that will lend you one, or you can get a great combo deal on the wrench and a 19mm axle nut tool from Bike Johnny

Take a little time and learn about your bike. It's worth it, and you're saving yourself a lot of money and trouble when the service tech forgets to do it right.

Bitching about the suggested service to the Service guy isn't productive. Talk to the Sales guy if you're going to *****. As far as he's concerned, he did his job and sold the bike. Most likely he won't really give a damn now, but hey, you never know until you try. Good luck.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Two 'suits' met in an elevator:

"You work here? I'm in customer service."

"Yea, I'm in sales."

"What's the difference...?" :blink: