Need top end for Gen 2 - ASAP!

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Clay-motion

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Messages
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Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Brought my well running 2010 dark side FJR with less than 40,000 miles to the shop in November for full monty Penske/Traxxion suspension upgrade, fix slipping second gear, and check/set valves. Per my word, I paid $1000 -1500 per month to cover expenses over the Minnesota winter and expected to have a better than new FJR to pile the miles on this summer. When I got it out in April, it was soon making weird top end noises on my first real run for fun. When I got home I found it half a quart low of oil, so I topped it off, but noise remained. I brought it back to the shop with about 300 miles in the 2 weeks since pickup, running very hot in rush hour traffic on a 72 degree day and they didn't check it out until this week.

The head is shot with scoring on cams and journals and the new parts are on backorder until mid August.

Does anyone know where I might find a complete, low miles, good condition top end so I can ride some miles before the snow flies again?

Thanks for reading and any input you might share!

-Clay

 
Sounds to me like someone in the shop messed up in a big way. I expect your best bet is to scour EBay for a suitable low mileage complete donor engine.

 
I wouldn't use your damaged engine. If it scored the cams and head who knows what else was damaged. JMHO.

+1 on looking for good low mileage complete engine.

I wouldn't take it within 10 miles of that shop you took it to either. They ruined your present engine, don't want them ruining the replacement. Too bad you don't have before and after video footage with sound as evidence to prove they messed it up. You have more self-control and patience than I. Hope you get this mess straightened out.

 
Is it possible that the shop just mis-timed your engine? I doubt the cams were damaged by being a half quart low on oil. What is possible is that the cranked down on the camshaft bolts with the cam mispositioned and damaged the alloy caps. If that is the only problem replacing the damaged parts would be preferable to me over replacing the whole head. Was the shop planning on replacing the head too? (Bottom half of the can bearings are the head)

Before committing to any engine replacement I would certainly seek an independent third partys opinion.

 
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Has the shop offered to make good for parts and labor?

(Have they admitted any responsibility?)

Did their service include shim replacement or just a check - fairly unusual to need adjustments at 40,000 miles but not unheard of.

As Fred mentioned, there is no way that a half quart (or more) low on oil would trash the upper end. If they changed shims, there are a number of things they might have done to mess it up.

There is no way that an FJR engine (that has not been abused)should be significantly worn at this mileage.

As far as parts vs replacement engine, I guess it would depend on what needed replacement. (You mentioned that they did a 2nd gear fix so I would be concerned that they messed up there as well.) A replacement eBay engine might be a bit of a crapshoot but, in the long run, it might be faster and cheaper than rebuilding...

 
FJR FleBay engines are C H E A P.

Find a low mileage engine with good documentation and do the swap.

 
The 2nd gear fixing is what concerned me. If they split the case there might be debris or pieces of gear that didn't get flushed out that made it's way through the oil system. And or they bungled the cam install after shim adjustment. If more than one tooth off, could have valve contact. And or they didn't install the CCT correctly.

All these are speculation, and here's another: maybe they did everything right but they forgot to put oil in after assembly and realized it shortly after starting for the first time.

But like Fred said a third party inspection would be a good idea. I'm curious like Ross, has the shop offered any explanation?

Hope it works out.
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Thank you for all the thoughts everybody!

There's no explanations from the shop. I have a line on a head and am jones-ing pretty badly to ride asap. If someone had a motor right now, I would probably jump on that, but I'm not finding one.

My friend with same year FJR with similar mileage hit a deer 6 weeks ago (he's okay - gear), but released it too quickly - goes for auction in 8 weeks.

 
New solution - put a deposit down on 2007 AE model with <15000 miles for less than $4000 about 300 miles away. I can sell what I don't need from it and maybe break even, plus I know the motor runs and was not stressed in a crash. Also, they will take on trade at a tiny loss the 2000 Royal Star I bought from my neighbor over the winter and put almost $1500 into, but I'll be back on MY bike with NO WORRIES soon I hope!

Clay

 
I have a gen 2 head in my attic that came off a bike with 8500 miles. I bought it in case my gen 1 became a ticker, which is hasn't, so I'm willing to let it go.

I would recommend taking some pictures of what's damaged on your top end. Some mistakes will damage pistons...

 
I get buying another bike so you can ride now, and worry about he broken bike later.

But, are you going to let that shop do the repair on the broken bike? Something is very fishy about how you got here. Please consider previous recommendations to obtain another mechanical opinion.

 
Thank you all for your concern and input!

The AE bike sale fell through so I got pissed & found an 06 motor with 17,000 miles on ebay for less than a grand shipped (unfortunately to the shop that still has the bike). When it arrived I went down and we spoke about switching oil pans (mine was just installed over the winter) but they didn't order the necessary gasket. A week later I go down there (about 30 miles each way from home) to see what else we need to begin - just the MF gasket! When I expressed my dismay about the delay to the shop owner and offered for him to write the story I will tell about my experience, the guy asked me to explain how this could happen and gave another duplicate load of excuses. They're closed Monday so I'm calling tomorrow to have them prepare my bike for transport...

because my main guy for motorcycle maintenance cleared some time before he goes to Sturgis and we're going to get the motor & the FJR on my next day off work, Wednesday, and he will do it!

I should be riding again in a week or two!!!!!

 
About the shop, I'm with you cuz the hits keep comin'. When they got back to me they already had my old motor out and new one in the frame so we didn't go get it. BUT WE SHOULD HAVE!

The oil pan swap was for checking out new motor internals (and because it was brand new on the old motor). However, in the process of checking out the internals something got jacked so when they fired it up, the oil pump chain broke. Now the place I got it from doesn't want to take it back because they have video of it running. Over time, I'm hoping they can make one good one from the two bad motors, but I can't wait or pay labor for that.

So at nine months without, I am too jones-ing to ride my FJR. I ordered a 2013 motor with 1500 miles from eBay and put it on my credit card. I requested that the shop NOT disassemble the head - just put the motor in and get me out the door. All said and done (and the only good way to view it is) my bike will be better than new for half the price! It should cost me ZERO when I pick it up. Hopefully in 2 weeks.

Clay

 
GOT HER HOME YESTERDAY!!! Going riding with the club to western Wisconsin in the rain-ish today and eager to see how it goes! I'll be glad to be on double darkside tires because the rain should prevent the inevitable crash and burning that must result from such an unwise practice
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(I had about 70,000 miles of double darkside experience on my VTX and am on my second rear car tire on the FJR). Sticks like a MF, even in the wet! It's also super effective on gravel and sandy spots on secondary roads.

SEEKING MORE INPUT (please read and comment cuz I value your opinions!)

Against everyone's advice I let the original shop do the work because I figured they would provide customer service, especially when I offered the shop owner the choice what story I would tell people about this process at its end of the process. We're almost there.

The shop owner let me just take it yesterday without paying anything and I'm supposed to come back with an offer about what to pay them (on top of the $5600 already paid in April). The legit charges are for Penske triple adjustable and Traction Dynamics fork cartridges and installation at about $3000 - 3500 along with the replacement oil pan for the original motor that is on the new one now.

So, the first replacement motor arrived damaged, but the shop didn't know until it was in the bike and the clutch was pulled causing a spring to get in there and break the oil pump chain. There was a crack in the clutch cover, but who knows how or when it got there. In spite of that I am getting a refund on that motor from the seller.

The second motor came from a 2013 gen 3 and it arrived Tuesday at the shop: loose on a pallet with NO shrink wrap or straps and absent several of the external covers that the seller evidently listed individually on eBay. I was beside myself when the shop asked if they should refuse the delivery - I wasn't there and how should I know? Lucky thing I had another motor with those covers and a few other parts that were damaged during transport.


I'm ambivalent about the fix on the original transmission since those parts are a loss and the labor totally wasted (plus the oil pan that leaked when first motor reassembled, but was screwed up). They tell me the original motor is clean without evidence of low oil so it must have just been a failure of existing parts. I'm dubious because they took it in and didn't find a problem before, during, or after working on it - I found the problem right away after I picked it up in April (should have been discovered by the shop before releasing to me?) and returned it to them with less than 300 new miles.

There seems like a lot of not noticing problems which had them do work that was ultimately unnecessary. Also, the first replacement motor labor and supplies might have been prevented if they noticed it's problems earlier in the process.

As a nice and fair guy, I feel like I SHOULD pay them something for the labor and some gaskets and shop supplies even though I researched, found and PAID for BOTH replacement motors as well as providing the Evans Waterless coolant and Motul synthetic oil in the current motor (not the first replacement). While motors were all going to ****, I decided that the only other mechanical need to have it be tip top was exhaust, so I had a Holeshot head pipe (stock mufflers for stealth) and fuel controller delivered and the shop put on when reassembling the bike. However, in May I did initiate the practice of riding on my days off work (60 mile round trip) to the shop almost weekly to acquire straight answers and to motivate action on my repair which languished for months. I have spent many hours hanging out down there in an attempt to demonstrate my commitment and resolve to be riding my FJR ASAP. I also had friends join me sometimes to demonstrate my social support and motorcycle culture engagement.

NOW IT SHOULD BE BETTER THAN NEW!!!! That's what I focus on when I start to freak out over the $8000 (without the first replacement motor) that I have put into a bike that has seen 300 miles since November...

 
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