New ES Owner, Initial Impression Report

[kcal]

After 10 years, I sold my 2005 ST and bought a 2015 ES.



I've put 400 miles on the ES and here are my early observations:
 
Engine / Transmission - I like the 2 modes (tour / sport) and can see a use for both. That said I will probably stay in tour mode most of the time and only use sport mode in the curves and twisties. In sport mode the FJR engine is more responsive than the ST but the ST has more low end torque. The power range feels smaller on the FJR vs. the ST which probably goes with the low end torque observation. The FJR engine buzzes a little in the mid rpm range but it's not bothersome. I'm still getting comfortable with the clutch and shifting. Down shifting feels sloppy vs. the ST and my up shifts aren't as crisp as I would like. My riding boots may be the culprit so I will try adjusting the foot shifter lever. I also wonder if the scheduled oil change at 600 miles when I put in a synthetic will make a difference. Cruise control works like it should and I wonder why I waited so long.
 
Ergonomics - I am 6'1" with a 32" inseam. I've added 1" handlebar risers, adjusted the handlebars to the furthest back position and raised the seat to the highest position and after all that I feel slightly more forward than the ST. I don't think it'll be a problem but can't tell for sure until I do a couple of 700 mile days. The stock seat seems ok but i need to do that long trip to really tell. The stock seat on the ST was not good and I changed it out for a Sargent seat which was terrific.
 
The up down range of the FJR wind screen is much smaller than the ST. At low position, the FJR is about the same as the ST, maybe a little lower. At high position I am still looking over the top of the FJR screen (with plenty of room to spare) whereas on the ST in the high position, I was looking thru the screen. For me, I ride with the screen down most of the time so I don't think the limited range will be a big deal but I remember those cold rainy rides in which the ST cocoon was terrific. I'll have to log more miles to see if I want to make a change and go with a larger windscreen. Heated grips works as they should.
 
Handling - I haven't been on a lot of curvy stuff yet but general impressions are, I can distinctly feel the 100 lb weight difference between the ST and FJR and I find my self over steering. Also the FJR feels top heavy relative to the ST. I've only played around with the soft, std and hard suspension adjustments and soft is nice for highway cruising and hard for the curvy stuff. I've got a lot more work to do here. It's windy where I live and so far the FJR seems to do fine in a cross wind.
 
Bike comes with a standard 12v outlet, but that outlet is only rated at 2 amps so you can only run low power stuff like a GPS or charge the phone but that's about it. Heated clothing requires an add on plug with larger amp rating which I installed. I didn't like the ST dash display and the FJR is brighter and more visible.
 
I have a luggage rack on order from Gary Crowley (plus his stiffy.....lol) and I installed the Yamaha OEM front sliders and on the back, MC Enterprises canyon cage. Hyperlites also.
 
So far I am pleased with the purchase and am looking forward to many long trips.



This board is great, thanks for sharing.



 

 

[Uncle Hud]

I have 20,000 miles on my FJR and have only had it in Sport mode by mistake. Power band starts at about 3K and runs to well above 8k. Flex your right wrist as far as it will turn; you'll see what I mean.

Sport mode means "fasten your seat belt" and my FJR doesn't have a seat belt.

 

[HotRodZilla]

The ES has the "Soft/Hard" settings for the rear? Are you sure??

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Starting at the bottom of your post with "This board is great"... You are in one heck of a bind. We suck and now you do too.

Seriously, if you came from either of the ST1300 forums, this forum is much less restrained. We have the same wonderful support here you find on the ST forums but the language and the humor here are... If the ST forums were "G" and "PG" rated, well this one is definitely "R". Just as much goodness, more sporty package. Which is about sums up the difference in the two motorcycles.

I came off a 2004 ST so I can relate to much of what you wrote. However, I also spent a good deal of time on and with a 2007 FJR so I could side by side compare the two bikes. The ST/FJR comparison has been debated over and over and is no longer relevant due to Honda dropping out of the race. For that reason, this thread could wind up in NEPRT. Sorry, but it just has been done too many times.

Now, for the meat of your post.

1. Low end torque/Power Curve. When I rode the ST back to back with the FJR I felt the same as you but you are WRONG. The FJR actually beats the ST throughout the RPM range. The dyno charts clearly show this even if the butt dyno does not. If you try a drag race the FJR actually pulls away instantly and just never stops. I think the ST engine is fantastic and I loved the bike. I know it feels stronger at the bottom and mid range. But it isn't. I think it is because the FJR just keeps pulling harder and harder the higher the RPMs climb while the Honda has that Electric Motor feel. The Honda just always pulls, no matter the gear, no matter the RPM. Yes, there is a bit more buzz with the FJR.

The transmission will wear in. Oh boy, will it wear in. It will get smooth as butter. Not to get into an oil thread but some oils do not seem to love the Gen3 FJR clutch. If you find difficulty shifting, you may consider switching to the Yamalube until you get it sorted. Just sayin'...

2. Every ergonomic complaint you ever heard about the ST applies to the FJR. Yes, it needs bar risers. Yes, it needs an aftermarket windshield. Yes, it needs a custom seat. I said CUSTOM. I did not say aftermarket, off the shelf. May I recommend either Russell Day Long or Laam Custom? Ha! I just did! I am partial to the Cee Bailey windshields with the reverse contour but you will have to try a few to get what you want. The FJR does not have as much still air as the ST. Period. There is just not as much area to hide behind. It is all in what you like.

3. The ST had a smoother ride. Period. The ES has waaay more lean angle. You can get it dialed in and it is versatile. You also have the spring preload adjustment which you did not mention. I think you will find that tires and tire pressures will have a huge effect on the handling. Basically, whatever tires your Honda liked, your Yamaha will like.

Cross winds you say? Oh my, there is a HUGE difference here. My Honda was like a sail in the wind, crosswinds were a major issue. The Yamaha is much better except that now I am affected by the crosswind. The bike is not moving as much but I feel it on my body more. A win for the Yamaha here.

In closing, I loved the ST. It was and is a great motorcycle. It has been left behind by Yamaha's continued refinements. How about that Cruise Control?!

EDIT: Zilla, the 3 standard settings for the damping controls are labeled Soft, Standard, and Hard. The Spring Preload settings are somewhat different.

 

[jmgrif]

I might wait for a few more miles before going synthetic? In my case probably a few thousand kilometres, then made the switch? I use Motul 7100, expensive but it's a pretty red! As well after switching the trans did shift more smoothly.

 

[Allen_C]

@RFH, actually, as you can see in this chart, the ST beats both the FJR and Connie up to 3k RPM, possibly the lower end difference the o.p. was referring to. And as you stated above for @HRZ there is a Hard, Std and Soft setting, but each of these has 7 adjustable settings you can preset to get a total of 21 different settings. Usually these are set at the middle of each, "0", but I ride twisties at Hard+3, city streets at Std0 and the slab at Soft-3 for the greatest range.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Ok, RFH and Allen thanks. I know there are settings, but I thought he was talking about the lever like on my '07.

Also, we have two ST1300s in our fleet. They're faster than the BMWs off the line, but still can't keep up with the FJR. They also shake like a MO-FO around 110. I've never had one over about 110, because of the shake, but I'd swear they are governed at like 110, 115. That does NOT apply to standard civilian bikes.

 

[Allen_C]

Also, we have two ST1300s in our fleet. They're faster than the BMWs off the line, but still can't keep up with the FJR. They also shake like a MO-FO around 110. I've never had one over about 110, because of the shake, but I'd swear they are governed at like 110, 115. That does NOT apply to standard civilian bikes.

So, you're telling us if we have a cop on an ST following us in NM and we are on an FJR to just twist our wrist and run away?

 

[mcatrophy]

...Also, we have two ST1300s in our fleet... ... They also shake like a MO-FO around 110. I've never had one over about 110, because of the shake....

The story is told that an English motorcycle policeman was killed after his ST went unstable at around 120. A test rider was brought in to investigate this instability. The test rider also crashed because of it and broke several bones. They now have an instruction not to exceed a speed, but I don't know what that limit is. At one stage it was rumoured that the STs would be phased out, but I still see them around. Probably too expensive to change them all.
A quick search came up with this quote from Wikipeadia:

Evidence indicates the ST1300 can exhibit a weave instability mode at high speed known in the case of the ST1300 as Pan* Weave.
In April 2007, subsequent to the death of a police motorcyclist riding a single seat ST1300, the emergency service version of the ST1300, a British coroner announced he would warn all Chief Constables in England and Wales of the "serious threat" to riders' lives posed by the ST1300 and the "catastrophic result" of the high speed weave.[15] Later safety checks resulted in one examiner sustaining several broken bones in a similar incident. UK police forces subsequently withdrew the ST1300 from police service;[16] Freewheelers EVS and London Ambulance Service continue to operate the ST1300.[17][18]

RiDE Magazine reported in October 2007 that a team replicated weave instability mode with a civilian Honda ST1300 reproducing the instability at a speed of 110 miles per hour (180 km/h) under certain loading conditions. The rider noticed a rear wheel maximum yaw of 11 degrees per second, described as "a consistent and alarming sideways movement." The editors named the behavior "Pan weave". The intent of the testing was not to determine the cause of the weave, but to confirm its existence. Also, the article reported that 43% of surveyed ST1300 owners had experienced the weave.[19]

* "Pan" because in the UK the ST1300 is called the "Pan European".

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Allen, I see what you are saying but I would argue that the difference is so slight and lasts for such a short time that it is negligible. Also, the dyno readings at the bottom of the RPM range are always so erratic and inconsistent, you see much different results on different dynos. I concede your point though.

The ST1300 was responsible for the death of an English Motor Officer due to what was unhappily named "The Pan Weave". ST1300s are called Pan Euro overseas. At high speeds, under certain conditions, the ST would go into a weave. My personal experience had more to do with windshield height than anything but the bike will begin to weave. They blamed tires, they blamed weight distribution, they blamed everything they could think of. The final result was that England switched to BMW for their police force, Hondaline top boxes were not available for sale in the US, and the swingarm pivot bushings are different between civilian and police models.

I never experienced the weave and my ST saw 140mph plus. I did experience instability with the windshield raised.

 

[Allen_C]

@RFH, I agree the real life low end deference would be negligible at best. If the o.p. had the fjr in Touring mode, that would definitely explain the difference in feel.

As for the ST's inherent instability, that sure sounds like a class-action lawsuit.

 

[MadRussian]

I use "T" mode for about 15 seconds and haven't used it since.

 

[Burnspot]

I use "T" mode for about 15 seconds and haven't used it since.

Aye. "S" mode is very twitchy until you get used to it and learn its ways....I rarely ride in "T" now it seems.

My only experience with an ST is an ST rider I ran into a couple of years ago in Clayton, NC...we were parked next to each other at a deli and he looked over at my '07 and said "I wish I had an FJR".

 

[Fred W]

I thought everything below 3k rpm was called "idle speed".

Even when lolly gagging and shifting at only 4k rpm, that still keeps you above 3k rpm after every shift. Notice that nice little torque bump at 4k? Yeah, the FJR loves to be there (or higher).

If the OP has been used to lugging his V4 ST around at or below 3k, he may need to take a little time to adapt to the higher revving character of the Inline 4 of the FJR.

 

[DaJudge]

Welcome to the asylum. The more you ride this bike, the more you'll fall in love with it.

Before purchasing my first FJR (a slightly-used '07), I test rode a variety of sport-tourers (BMW K1200GT, Connie14, ST1300 and FJR). I had previously owned mostly Hondas and Yamahas and have a high regard for both brands.

Based on reviews, comparisons and such, I was expecting the Honda to be solidly in the running for my first choice. After a 30-40 min test ride on a new one, however, it dropped to the bottom of my list. On paper these bikes may be fairly comparable, but to me the Honda was the least inspiring to ride of all those I tested. Nothing in particular wrong with it, but it just seemed to be less fun, especially compared to the FJR I rode for the first time a few days later.

I tend to keep my '13 in S-mode except sometimes in heavy city traffic or, more commonly, in twisties where the smoothness of T-mode is quite useful when trail braking.

 

[mcatrophy]

...I tend to keep my '13 in S-mode except sometimes in heavy city traffic or, more commonly, in twisties where the smoothness of T-mode is quite useful when trail braking.

I tend to keep mine in S-mode particularly when in heavy city traffic so that I get the immediate response needed to stay alive.

Actually, it's very rare for me to use T-mode. I reserve that for when the road surface is particularly slippery, otherwise I much prefer the immediate response of S-mode. Even though it might increase the wear rate of my rear tyre.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

What happened to the OP? He made that one post and then just...disappeared. One of you must have made him mad. It wasn't me!

I had an ST1300 fall in behind me the other day and follow me home. The owner was impressed with my cutting edge technology but had no desire to "upgrade". I did not try to talk him into it either, I have great respect for the big Honda. I am happier with my Yamaha.

 

[kcal]

Redfish, still here, not mad, just don't have anything to add. Looking forward to what this bad boy will do in the curves and twisties. I don't regret my decision one bit and will have an update next year.

 

[Allen_C]

Redfish, still here, not mad, just don't have anything to add. Looking forward to what this bad boy will do in the curves and twisties. I don't regret my decision one bit and will have an update next year.

Do you know if you were in T-mode when you made your low rpm opinion?