New racing law in Ontario

[huron52]

Here is a some articles from the papers a day after the law came into affect.

https://www.citynews.ca/news/news_15297.aspx

https://www.thestar.com/News/article/262045

https://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/200...542848-sun.html

And you guys were worried about hiding a radar detector.... <_<

 

[BugR]

After two the count is 41 impounded,

Just glad I live on the border with Quebec.

Chris

 

[wfooshee]

Of course I understand "something has to be done" about the problem, but what happened to due process? Is it really missing in Canada?

I dunno, let's say somebody, call him Warchild, got nabbed at some goofy speed, and had his bike impounded and ruined his multi-BBG ride. Some weeks later, a pal of his, call this guy Ignacio, finds an error in the citation documents and gets his ol' pal off scot-free. The event never happened, legally speaking.

Yet by that time, our boy was out of a bike and license for a week, had to travel and pay to retrieve it, and then through legitimate legal means showed that the accuser could not prove his case. Restitution?

There is no way in hell a policeman should have the final (and only) say on what penalty is appropriate for any offense. I don't know about Canada, but at least we have a constitutional amendment to that effect.

 

[ponyfool]

There is no way in hell a policeman should have the final (and only) say on what penalty is appropriate for any offense. I don't know about Canada, but at least we have a constitutional amendment to that effect.

I don't know where you live, but police in the US frequently seize property, including vehicles, driver's licenses, cash, etc. If you drive with a suspended license, I impound your car. Speed racing, I impound your vehicle with intent to seize. Pick up a prostitute or deliver drugs from your vehicle, I immediately seize your vehicle. Drive drunk, instant seizure of vehicle AND license.

Don't think it appropriate, file a tow appeal. It is a separate hearing from the actual criminal charge you originally faced. The burden of proof is only a preponderance of the evidence (meaning anything over 50%). The outcome of the original charge is not relevant to the seizure.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Of course I understand "something has to be done"

yeah go faster! RUN AWAY! :clapping:

 

[fretbender]

From the 3rd link, "There is no right of appeal in the case of a suspension or impoundment, police say."

That's just wrong.

 

[Rogue]

......The outcome of the original charge is not relevant to the seizure.

So if your neighbor is a cop and you don't get along he could impound your car/bike and when the charges were dropped you would still be out a car/bike?

 

[ponyfool]

......The outcome of the original charge is not relevant to the seizure.

So if your neighbor is a cop and you don't get along he could impound your car/bike and when the charges were dropped you would still be out a car/bike?

Unless you appeal the tow. In addition, he would be out of a job.

 

[weekend rider]

Looks like one place I will not be visiting. So what do the the police say when they gather for coffee and dog-nuts ?

LETS GET DOWN WITH OPP and get his vechicle

This is the first official boycot of one agaainst the the prov. of Ontario :clapping: :clapping:

 

[El Gordo]

Stopping drivers from endangering others on or near the roads is a good thing.

The problem I have with these kind of laws is that it basically gives ordinary police officers the roadside power to judge and convict you. Nowadays there seems to be too many incidents of police abusing the power they already have.

You are guilty until proven innocent and the punishment starts now. Even if you are able to prove that the charges are unwarranted, the process and costs involved are a very serious hardship.

 

[wfooshee]

There is no way in hell a policeman should have the final (and only) say on what penalty is appropriate for any offense. I don't know about Canada, but at least we have a constitutional amendment to that effect.

I don't know where you live, but police in the US frequently seize property, including vehicles, driver's licenses, cash, etc. If you drive with a suspended license, I impound your car. Speed racing, I impound your vehicle with intent to seize. Pick up a prostitute or deliver drugs from your vehicle, I immediately seize your vehicle. Drive drunk, instant seizure of vehicle AND license.

Don't think it appropriate, file a tow appeal. It is a separate hearing from the actual criminal charge you originally faced. The burden of proof is only a preponderance of the evidence (meaning anything over 50%). The outcome of the original charge is not relevant to the seizure.

I understand seizure of property for evidenciary purposes, and I understand the loss of property used in the commission of certain crimes once convicted. Just about every school around here has a deputy with a drug-seizure car and a custom paint job on it.

I've never been through a DUI stop, and never will be, but my understanding is that it's not towed and impounded unless you can't get someone to come pick it up like right now. It won't be left on the roadside as you get hauled in. License, that's a different matter. It's the cop's job to prevent you from driving if he suspects (or KNOWS) your fall-down-drunk condition.

If the loss of your license and vehicle for a determined period is part of the penalty for the offense, let that happen when the judge declares your guilt. It's not the cop's job to administer justice, it's his job to document the offense and produce proof to the court.

 

[ponyfool]

I've never been through a DUI stop, and never will be, but my understanding is that it's not towed and impounded unless you can't get someone to come pick it up like right now. It won't be left on the roadside as you get hauled in. License, that's a different matter. It's the cop's job to prevent you from driving if he suspects (or KNOWS) your fall-down-drunk condition.

Different laws for different jurisdictions. When I tow a car for DUII, Prostitution, Delivery of a Controlled Substance, Driving with Revoked (not suspended, just revoked) License, or Speed Racing, the car is not just impounded, it is seized. The owner is then thrust into two separate processes. One is the criminal charge, and the other is for the legality of the tow. The tow matter is handled much quicker than the criminal process. But, the burden of proof is also significantly lower, as mentioned above, it is only a preponderance of the evidence. In the criminal matter, the burden is the ever famous Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. Even if the person wins in criminal court, the odds of winning the tow matter are very slim.

Think of it the same as the OJ trial. He was found not guilty in the criminal case, but in the civil case, he was found liable. If it was just a tow instead of a double murder, his car would have remained seized regardless of the outcome of the criminal trial.

Unlike the apparent links posted above, ALL seizures have an appeals process in Oregon, so the cop is not the final say, but only the initiating source.

 

[wfooshee]

Unlike the apparent links posted above, ALL seizures have an appeals process in Oregon, so the cop is not the final say, but only the initiating source.

I think that last sentence is where the problem lies.

 

[Mike-H]

This is a ******** law, no one should be able to make all those decisions by him or her self (as in judge, jury & executioner)...it's funny how they (the government) used to set the speed limit by the 85 percentile of John Q public's speed & yet over the last 25 years when they (the government) has checked it & found over 92 percentile of people averaging 120 kph (which used to be the speed limit on 400 series hi ways) did they raise the speed limit to match?....no because of money revenue.... so any hi way outside the GTA, or 2ndary road, little to no traffic, day or night & it's a twist of the wrist for this guy....."Can you say....Bye-Bye".... :****: ....

 

[burnergold2B]

Looks like one place I will not be visiting. So what do the the police say when they gather for coffee and dog-nuts ?
LETS GET DOWN WITH OPP and get his vechicle

This is the first official boycot of one agaainst the the prov. of Ontario :clapping: :clapping:

Umm, left to right across their frozen/thawing tundra, which one is Ontyrany, er um, Ontario? I'm globally unliterate being an ethnocentric 'mericaner.

 

[FJRottie]

From the 3rd link, "There is no right of appeal in the case of a suspension or impoundment, police say."
That's just wrong.

I agree.

Link from today

However, I agree with -

for speeding 50 km/h over the limit, racing, turning "wheelies" on highways, drifting in traffic, plus other dangerous stunts.

- being a more serious offence.
I see it so much on the 400 series highways in Ontario and these people endanger me on my FJR.

I don't see or have the need to do any of those on my bike.

I never have the need to go 50 KPH / 30 MPH over.

YSMV

 

[wheatonFJR]

I guess no Huntsville for next year eh?

 

[uctofeej]

I'm not sure I agree with the underlying logic here. A century ago, a horse thief could be executed because the crime left a person stranded with a high possibility of undue hardship and even death. Modern day car thieves are treated slightly better, but it is still considered a significant crime to steal a person's car.

Now, the government can "seize" someone's car, but it's not a crime? How is that different from stealing... except that it is sanctioned by a much stronger force, i.e. armed agents of the government?

Virginia's excessive fines seem equally punitive, but without threatening livelihood. There are better ways to address speeding.

 

[Inlaw1]

The outcome of the original charge is not relevant to the seizure.

And that's just plain wrong and opens the door for abuse. Sulphur, LA. got caught doing such things. Seizing cars and property based on planted drug evidence, but they got away with it for a long time and lots of innocent folks lost because of it. I'm sure they aren't the only jurisdiction to do so, seems abuse of authority is becoming more prevalent lately (I don't make such a comment lightly, I've had the badge in my family and have friends that wear it).

Your not found guilty then everything should go back as it was before, including getting your property back and reimbursement of any financial loss. There shouldn't be any second proceeding, that's just an open door for abuse of authority.