New tick repair problem, bad things...

[Toecutter]

After picking up my bike Saturday and getting it home, I noticed the oil in the sight glass looked dirty (couldn't see the shiny background plate) and was above the level of the glass. So Sunday, after a short warmup ride, I changed it, along with the filter, since they didn't do that at the shop. I know, WTF? Major surgery with no oil change? Actually, they said they thought the oil was changed but the filter definitely wasn't.

The oil level was probably about a quart too full, and in the sight glass it looked like melted chocolate.

When I shined a flashlight into the drain pan, it looked more metallic than the paint!

I saved all the oil and the filter. I poured off some into a glass jar, and after sitting a couple of days, much of the metallic stuff settled out to the bottom.

I took the jar and showed it to the service manager. It was pretty much a blow-off, like "Well, the filter would catch it all anyway".

"You guys didn't change the filter".

"Yeah, Yamaha doesn't pay me for the filter".

*Serenity mantra*

Like I told him, I haven't cut the filter apart yet, but I'd imagine it's saturated because there's no way a filter could catch that much metal.

The service manager acted like it's no big deal for a bunch of metal particles to be cruising around in the engine and tranny.

Now, I'm wondering how badly the motor and tranny were damaged. I'm having the oil analyzed, but I'm wondering what's a good way to determine the extent of internal damage. Cylinder leakdown test? Teardown and analysis? I hesitate to take it local for testing, as the competent local place probably does a lot of work for Wilson's, and may be in bed with them, so to speak.

BTW, I withdraw the good comments I made about Wilson's service department.

If you must say "I told you so", please try to add some constructive commentary as well. This really sucks. Thanks in advance.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I know there are others that can better answer your question but I think the size of the metal particles you are seeing is more important than the quantity and unless you have ridden a lot of miles since the fix they were probably there before the repair. It does demonstrate the need to change the oil after any kind of engine overhaul.

I would take the filter apart -- which is not easy -- and see if it is plugged. If it is not, then the metal you are seeing was too small to be caught by the filter and probably is not anything to worry about.

 

[Vulcan]

My question is were is the metal coming from? Removing the head and doing work on the valves should not cause any metal flakes in the oil. I would be sure to fully document your findings with dates/times, photos, lab report from the oil examination, names of the people you spoke to etc. With the metal flakes inthe oil I would not be surprised to see bearing damage. If that was my bike I would sell it ASAP.

 

[skyway]

I think your doing the right thing with an analysis. I wouldn't jump the gun until the results are in.

 

[SkooterG]

Damn Toe. I am really sorry to hear of all the misfortune you are having. My heart bleeds for ya brudda.

I would PM or email Jestal. I bet he would have some insight for you.

Good luck. Hope all works out in the end.

 

[skyway]

I would PM or email Jestal.  I bet he would have some insight for you.

Skooter the telepathic.

 

[radman]

Filter is designed to remove any particles of sufficient size to harm bearings, therefore it's unlikely harm has been done. Tranny is very forgiving. What would concern me is the source of all these particles. They did head work, not usually a source of the kind of heavy wear that would produce a lot of filings. The color and composition of said filings would be of import. Use a magnet, note color. The managers answer blows, but then he probably isn't real happy with the whole process, beaten up by customers, second guessed by management, told no by Yamaha and having to pass this on to the end user. The whole scene sucks. Oh, wait, I didn't spot the J reference. I'll shut up now.

 

[SkooterG]

Well said Rad!

God I hate when I have to compliment you.

 

[zzkenoman]

Sorry to hear that toecutter, it always makes me feel bad that a dealer doesn't make you feel 100% with the service. I'm pretty sure that any day now a complaint letter will be in the mail to corporate, I'd do it, and got some action.

 

[BrunDog]

Filter is designed to remove any particles of sufficient size to harm bearings, therefore it's unlikely harm has been done. Tranny is very forgiving. What would concern me is the source of all these particles. They did head work, not usually a source of the kind of heavy wear that would produce a lot of filings. The color and composition of said filings would be of import. Use a magnet, note color. The managers answer blows, but then he probably isn't real happy with the whole process, beaten up by customers, second guessed by management, told no by Yamaha and having to pass this on to the end user. The whole scene sucks. Oh, wait, I didn't spot the J reference. I'll shut up now.

+2 * 100%

-BD

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Thats why I do ALL my own work!

 

[Coyote]

Absolutely sucks Toecutter. We all have different experiences from businesses. I was really hoping yours didn't match mine.

I looked at the $80/hour service rate sign at San Jose Yamaha yesterday and hoped they enough of it went to the mechanic to make him care about quality.

 

[exskibum]

That sure sucks. As has been said, the real mystery is where the filings are coming from.

It's hard to believe that even without a filter change, the few miles you seem to have ridden would result in oil as dark as you describe.

Next up is why the hell there was an extra quart of oil in the engine. Sounds like some pretty shoddy work in changing the oil -- that would give me little confidence in the shop's abilities on the major work.

Even if they weren't paid for the filter as a part of the warranty work, why the hell would they not tell you and ask if you wanted to pay for a new filter?

How many miles are on the oil you took out (presumably the same number of miles since the tick repair)? I trust that the color (and metal content) is a whole lot different than you'd have seen in that engine on the same miles before you took it in.

Sorry to hear the bad news -- hope it is resolved soon. This oil problem doesn't sound like anything anyone else has gone through on a tick repair, though I seem to recall Skyway's bike using more oil after the repair.

Are you sure you don't want a Honda as a back up now that therea are NO decent stealers in the area?

 

[MCRIDER007]

Next up is why the hell there was an extra quart of oil in the engine.  Sounds like some pretty shoddy work in changing the oil -- that would give me little confidence in the shop's abilities on the major work. 

I don't know how you could be sure there was an extra quart of oil unless you measured the oil that came out of the engine, but it sounds like the oil was not changed if it was that dark.

 

[dcarver]

ToeCutter - Empathy dude. If not for bad luck..

I've not seen any oil changes from an FJR but my other bikes always show some metal flakes in the oil; natural by-product of having common engine/tranny oil. On some bikes the amount is almost distrubing to look at.. the XR Honda motors are famous for this.

Good luck. Oh, I haven't used them yet because I'm still a waiter.. but should Powerhouse in Paso Robles turn out to have a good service dept that might be another choice for us locals. I'll keep the forum posted with quality of service from PH. I will say that Ivan is a 5-star Yamaha rated mechanic oops techician and he correctly diagnosed a lower end knock in my yz426.

 

[skyway]

If your oil is only half as bad as your describing, figure another fresh change in few hundred miles.

Fresh oil & filter=cheap insurance. B)

 

[madmike2]

That's why I changed the oil @ 25 miles during the break-in process on both FJRs. I asked a friend (who is a Honda mechanic) about the "metallic" oil and his comment was that it's normal, "that fine stuff usually settles into the bottom of the oil pan". Hmmmm, oookay. As Skyway suggested, change the oil and filter again in a short interval and consider it an engine flush. Then check it again at the next oil change.

 

[radman]

Metallic oil is normal off a new engine. One of the reasons for an early first change-though some might argue that the particles actually speed break-in, something I've never believed in but many do. Keep in mind, when the Small Block Chev V-8 first came out, they had a terrible problem with oil useage. Turned out to be too fine a cyl wall finish was preventing the rings from seating. Chevrolets Engineering solution? The dealerships were instructed to feed the engines Bon-Ami (cleanser) via the carb throats ala Sea-Foam. It worked.

 

[madmike2]

The dealerships were instructed to feed the engines Bon-Ami (cleanser) via the carb throats ala Sea-Foam. It worked.

My Dad worked for a Caterpillar dealer in Fresno, CA in the late 40's. He told me that "Bon-Ami" trick is exactly the method they'd use if they couldn't get the rings to seat in an engine. Talk about honing the cylinders!