PAIR system carbon buildup removal?

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2fjr

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While doing a valve clearance check, I decided to pull the covers off the PAIR system for a look inside. I am amazed at all the carbon buildup I found. I do know I can remove the system, and may do that. If I decide to keep it intact, does anyone know of a good product for removing the carbon that will not also not damage the rubber case that the reed valves live in? Check out the photo of the tube that runs up to the reeds.....very reduced by buildup. They all looked fairly similar.

https://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o669/bpsnow1/FJR/P1010862_zps65b0bcd0.jpg

https://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o669/bpsnow1/FJR/P1010863_zps0e453447.jpg

https://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o669/bpsnow1/FJR/P1010864_zpscabcc13f.jpg

 
The bike has about 43,000 miles on it now. It was a ticker early in life and was fixed under warranty back then. The PO was a friend. I'm curious what others look like for comparison? I'm sure plenty of folks that have installed block off plates have seen theirs.

dcarver....thanks for the photo fix. I tried to follow the directions to do this, but could not make it work to show them inline. The screen shot links in the directions are all black X boxes. What did I do wrong? Thx

 
The question remains would it be any different whether you had the block off plates or not. Would you find the same crud using the original system. My guess is yes since that is what the engine does. It produces hydrocarbons. A byproduct of burning gas and oxygen.

I try and blow mine out every chance I get. At the end of my ride yesterday I hit 95 mph WOT just before pulling into the driveway. And I currently have 62,905 miles on the bike. Style of riding may also play into this scenario.

Dave

 
I've never heard of this before. Is it common?
Yes, to the point it would be safe to say they all do it and eventually they all will look like that. Put a Wyn Pro cap set over 'em and be done with it.

I asked about the OP's FJR being a ticker because the coating was a little thicker and oily looking.

 
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Mine were clogged when I did the valve check at 80K kms, except the carbon was caked on dry.

I just bought 4 of 1/2" rubber blanking off caps and one 5/8" cap and removed the air induction system.

 
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"dcarver....thanks for the photo fix. I tried to follow the directions to do this, but could not make it work to show them inline. The screen shot links in the directions are all black X boxes. What did I do wrong? Thx"

  • I went to your photo bucket link. PB offers code to 'Links to this Photo' Choose IMG.
  • Go back to fjrforum.
  • In the upper left hand corner, a little light switch icon. Click on it.
  • Paste the copied code in.
  • Reclick the LightSwitch icon to view the pix.
There are other ways too.

 
One of the reasons I asked if others have seen this is because I did not expect to see it. I have been inside many a Concours 1000 and non of the air injection systems do this on that bike. It's a very similar system.

Also, it seems odd that the carbon should get up so high in the system. The primary air flow should be going down the holes from the top. This seems to indicate that a lot of exhaust is making it up towards the reed valves. If they seal well, it should pretty much prevent this.

 
dcarver....thanks for the tips, I'll try it in this post. It's funny, but the little light switch (I'll take your word for it...pretty hard to make out what the hell it is) gives no info when you hover over it, unlike some of the other icons.
edit to add: Cool, it worked!! thx again


 
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Just had mine apart during the valve inspection and popped one of my block-off plates off just out of curiosity and it looked just like that. I've had them capped off pretty much the whole life of the bike.

 
The original Colortune kits (remember them)? came with a small bottle of cleaning fluid that was very effective in removing carbon deposits from the quartz plug. I have no idea what the fluid was and I see they don't supply it any more. I would guess that it was something like caustic..............

While doing a valve clearance check, I decided to pull the covers off the PAIR system for a look inside. I am amazed at all the carbon buildup I found. I do know I can remove the system, and may do that. If I decide to keep it intact, does anyone know of a good product for removing the carbon that will not also not damage the rubber case that the reed valves live in? Check out the photo of the tube that runs up to the reeds.....very reduced by buildup. They all looked fairly similar.
 
Easy fix. Either order blockoff plates, or find someone who still has their barely used system sitting in a box in their garage. Mine was Gen II but I trashed mine this past weekend finally. I'm trying to be less of a pack rat.
biggrin.png
I'm sure someone will give you theirs for the cost of postage.

 
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Can anyone tell us what would be the harm if it was left as is and continued to collect carbon until it clogged up completely? I haven't looked at mine recently, but it did have some carbon built up on it the last time I looked. I scraped a little off, but gave up and just closed it up with most of the carbon still on there.

 
I have two sets of stockers removed from my FJRs...one from a 2003 and one from a 2005....send me a PM if you want me to send you a set.

Easy fix. Either order blockoff plates, or find someone who still has their barely used system sitting in a box in their garage. Mine was Gen II but I trashed mine this past weekend finally. I'm trying to be less of a pack rat.
biggrin.png
I'm sure someone will give you theirs for the cost of postage.
 
The ones that I have looked at also looked like that. It is quite clear that the exhaust gasses are leaking past the reed valve on these systems. Just one more reason to blank them off and be done with it.

Can anyone tell us what would be the harm if it was left as is and continued to collect carbon until it clogged up completely? I haven't looked at mine recently, but it did have some carbon built up on it the last time I looked. I scraped a little off, but gave up and just closed it up with most of the carbon still on there.
Well, intuitively you could say that when they get completely occluded it will be like having blanking plates in place, no more PAIR airflow from the airbox into the exhaust stream.

Here's the description of the PAIR system from the FSM:

AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM

The air induction system (AI system) introduces fresh air into the exhaust port in order to burn the
unburned gas (which is present in the exhaust gas) in the exhaust pipe. The burning of the
unburned gases in this manner enhances the efficiency of the catalyst and results in cleaner
exhaust gases.

The AI system takes a portion of the air from the air cleaner, sends it to the reed valve via the air
cut-off valve, and introduces it directly into the exhaust port through the reed valve.

The air cut-off valve is controlled by the signals from the ECU in accordance with the combustion
conditions. Ordinarily, the air cut-off valve opens to allow the air to flow during idle and closes to cut
off the flow when the motorcycle is being driven. However, if the coolant temperature is below the
specified value, the air cut-off valve remains open and allows the air to flow into the exhaust pipe
until the temperature becomes higher than the specified value.

The reed valve is provided on the cylinder head cover above the cylinders, and sends air to the
exhaust pipe through the inside of the cylinder head.

So the only downside of having blocked off PAIR system is the emissions may be somewhat higher.

 
The ones that I have looked at also looked like that. It is quite clear that the exhaust gasses are leaking past the reed valve on these systems. Just one more reason to blank them off and be done with it.

Can anyone tell us what would be the harm if it was left as is and continued to collect carbon until it clogged up completely? I haven't looked at mine recently, but it did have some carbon built up on it the last time I looked. I scraped a little off, but gave up and just closed it up with most of the carbon still on there.
Well, intuitively you could say that when they get completely occluded it will be like having blanking plates in place, no more PAIR airflow from the airbox into the exhaust stream.

Here's the description of the PAIR system from the FSM:

AIR INDUCTION SYSTEM

The air induction system (AI system) introduces fresh air into the exhaust port in order to burn the

unburned gas (which is present in the exhaust gas) in the exhaust pipe. The burning of the

unburned gases in this manner enhances the efficiency of the catalyst and results in cleaner

exhaust gases.

The AI system takes a portion of the air from the air cleaner, sends it to the reed valve via the air

cut-off valve, and introduces it directly into the exhaust port through the reed valve.

The air cut-off valve is controlled by the signals from the ECU in accordance with the combustion

conditions. Ordinarily, the air cut-off valve opens to allow the air to flow during idle and closes to cut

off the flow when the motorcycle is being driven. However, if the coolant temperature is below the

specified value, the air cut-off valve remains open and allows the air to flow into the exhaust pipe

until the temperature becomes higher than the specified value.

The reed valve is provided on the cylinder head cover above the cylinders, and sends air to the

exhaust pipe through the inside of the cylinder head.

So the only downside of having blocked off PAIR system is the emissions may be somewhat higher.

Thanks Fred. That's what I was thinking. I'll miss that nice popping sound that I get through my Muzzy when I decelerate, but other than that I don't see any reason to care if the PAIR system clogs up.

 
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