Parasitic current draw

[Dangerous Dave]

The ***** about having a bunch of vehicles is that each spends too much time sitting. After all, I can only travel so much. Thank goodness for Battery Tenders. I have pigtails for a battery tender on all my 'toys', including my truck, and a Tender plugged in on each side of the garage to keep all the batteries happy. But the FJR battery, more than any other, just won't stay charged on its own for any length of time, in spite of being replaced last year. Had the same problem with the old battery as well. Now I realize the correct thing to do would be to put an ammeter in series and see what the actual parasitic draw is. No good excuse really for not doing it, what with the feej battery being so easily accessible and all, especially with powerlet plugs and Datel voltmeters on the dash. Part of me says there's no reason for this bike to have excessive parasitic draw, since nothing is energized with key off (I don't think) beyond clock memory and such. It's also interesting to note that the Datel reads about a half a volt low according to my Fluke 88, but that could be due to voltage drop across crusty connections. Not really sure how it's wired in, since it was installed by the previous owner (someone you all know and love), but it does make me at least a bit curious.

All my other bikes can sit for weeks with no tender hooked up, then plug it in...light is red for 10 or 20 seconds and then goes to green. But not the feej...it needs plenty-O-Battery-Tendin'. Of course none of the others are as farkled as the feej.

So...anybody else have a similar issue??

 

[BrunDog]

Might not be parasitic draw, may just be the battery characteristics.

The only way to know would be to hook up an ammeter in series with the battery terminal an measure the quiescent current.

-BD

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Might not be parasitic draw, may just be the battery characteristics.

Same problem with both the old and new batteries. Coincidence?? If it was common to the battery config, you'd think somebody else would be having the same problem.

The only way to know would be to hook up an ammeter in series with the battery terminal an measure the quiescent current.-BD

Yeah, I know. But what a GIANT pain in the *** on this bike, just to check parasitic draw (what we call it in the auto biz). Easier to plug in the Tender, but I reckon eventually (maybe over the winter) I'll just have to do it so I can quit wondering.

 

[Bionic Pelvis]

You have the subtitle "Too many farkles?" What farkles do you have?

I recently got a little lazy and stopped taking all my goodies off each night. I found that my battery was draining, and after making a couple phone calls I found out that things like my radar detector actually draw a small amount of power any time they are plugged in, even when they are powered off.

Went back to unplugging/removing most farkles at night and haven't had a lick of trouble since.

 

[Zorlac]

Having EVERY electrogizmo's hot side switched with relay driven by the ignition switch would more than likely make this problem go away.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

You have the subtitle "Too many farkles?" What farkles do you have?
I recently got a little lazy and stopped taking all my goodies off each night. I found that my battery was draining, and after making a couple phone calls I found out that things like my radar detector actually draw a small amount of power any time they are plugged in, even when they are powered off.

Went back to unplugging/removing most farkles at night and haven't had a lick of trouble since.

That's a fair question. GPS, MP3, Chatterbox, and garage door opener all have their own power sources. The grip heaters I installed, I wired into the hazard light circuit, which is only powered with key on, but I always turn them off anyway, just because I'm anal like that. I have two Powerlet outlets. One is hot all the time and I use it for my heated vest and for my battery tender plug-in. The other is switched with the key, and switched/regulated by a heat 'troller for my heated gloves, which I also always turn off...just because. XM radio cradle is switched with the key through a relay and is vacant most of the time anyway, since I use my MP3 player for shorter trips. Magnum blaster horns are key switched and wired through a relay...installed by the previous owner. Audiovox CCS100 also key switched and installed by the P/O. Electro sport stator and Datel voltmeter were also installed by the P/O, and the voltmeter only displays with key on. From a logical standpoint, the last two are really the only possible suspects, since everything else is either known to be key switched, or an open circuit until I plug something into it, or in the case of the horns, energize them through a switch. I'm not even sure the stator could be a suspect, but an ammeter would confirm or deny. That leaves the Datel, which I didn't wire up personally, so although the display illumination is obviously switched, I don't know about the actual voltage reference source. Although as I mentioned before, the Datel reads about a half volt low all the time, at least according to my Fluke multi-meter (you'd like to believe a $500 meter is accurate). That little factoid makes me suspect that the reference source is also switched through a relay, which could account for the voltage drop.

Ya know, now that I think about it, there's an unidentified wire spliced into the front running lights. I've wondered about it, but figured it was (seemingly) causing no harm, so no foul. Probably warrants further investigation, but if I were going to venture a guess, I'd bet it was the switched power source for one of the relays installed by the P/O.

Zorlac says:Having EVERY electrogizmo's hot side switched with relay driven by the ignition switch would more than likely make this problem go away.

Most are...see above.

Since no one else has chimed in about similar troubles besides BP, I might as well just plan on taking out the dash panels, getting to the battery with an ammeter, and start unplugging stuff until I find out who the culprit is. I imagine anything over a few milliamps is probably excessive, since I think it's only like a 14 amp/hr battery. Anybody have a good reference number for acceptable parasitic draw on an FJR?

 

[Zorlac]

For the sake of argument, figure sucking 30% of the battery's charge off is bad.

.3*12Ah=3.6Ah

3.6Ah/1ma=150days

So a 10ma draw would be OK for maybe 15days.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

For the sake of argument, figure sucking 30% of the battery's charge off is bad..3*12Ah=3.6Ah

3.6Ah/1ma=150days

So a 10ma draw would be OK for maybe 15days.

Agreed. But...would you feel it was acceptable if you let your bike sit for two weeks and then it wouldn't start? That's pretty much where I am, and I don't feel it's normal or acceptable. If the bike hasn't been ridden for 10 days or more and I plan on riding it sometime soon, I better plug in the tender beforehand, 'cause it sure is a heavy piglet to bump-start. And even at that, there better be enough juice left to fire off the EFI. Since it's not my only bike (nor the first thing I grab the keys for when the weather is nice), this is an issue for me. My other bikes with much smaller batteries don't suffer the same problem, and at least one does have digital dash with a clock, so some parasitic draw. If I believed this was normal, I wouldn't have issue with it, but I don't think it's normal. Sounds like you don't either.

I have a cheapo DVOM at home for basic stuff, but I don't think I trust it enough when we're counting our milliamps. I'll either have to do this at work one day on my lunch hour, or bring my good meter home from work. I think I prefer the former, since it's now officially COLD in my garage.

 

[Zorlac]

I agree, the bike should start no problem after a two week hiatus without being hooked to a charger if the battery is good.

"I have a cheapo DVOM at home for basic stuff, but I don't think I trust it enough when we're counting our milliamps."

https://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482345000P

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywo...sl_5ao6c6t1qs_b

 

[Geezer]

I had a similar problem last summer. I let my bike sit in the driveway for about 5 days while I was visiting relatives and the battery went dead. It turned out to be a bad relay that was drawing power even with the key off. When I disconnected the battery I could hear the relay click, then it would click again when I touched the battery cable back to the battery terminal. I replaced the relay and the problem went away. The relay was used for my Hella lights.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

I had a similar problem last summer. I let my bike sit in the driveway for about 5 days while I was visiting relatives and the battery went dead. It turned out to be a bad relay that was drawing power even with the key off. When I disconnected the battery I could hear the relay click, then it would click again when I touched the battery cable back to the battery terminal. I replaced the relay and the problem went away. The relay was used for my Hella lights.

Well that's certainly a possibility. It would have to be something where the relay coil side and contact side were on separate switched circuits (otherwise you'd see something turn on). And since the P/O installed all the relays, I don't know what they're all wired to. But that is certainly a possibility. For that matter, if they were on two separate switched circuits (like one being the running light circuit!), the relay could be stuck closed and I wouldn't even hear a click! I've been cooped up in the house for two solid days tending to a sick wife, so I have a touch of cabin fever. Maybe I can sneak out to the garage for a bit tomorrow and investigate. Gonna have to fire up the propane heater though...supposed to get down into the teens tonight. BRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

 

[Geezer]

Well that's certainly a possibility. It would have to be something where the relay coil side and contact side were on separate switched circuits (otherwise you'd see something turn on).

You would think so, but that's not what happened to me. I never understood how this was happening, but the relay was clicking but the lights that the relay was used for did not go on. The power that was supposed to pick the relay came from a switched source and then through a switch, so it had to be bleeding off of the circuit that came directly from the battery that the relay was supposed to be controlling. The only power draw was the relay coil so it took several days of non-use for the battery to die. Anyway, a new relay solved the problem.

 

[FJRScorpion]

DD,

Dayton Eh?, I'm surprised you don't have an alarm system, (I went to school near I75 in Englewood).

Anyway my "fancy dancy" Scorpio alarm system draws down enough on the battery that I feel it routinely requires plugging in the Optimate III to maintain good battery health, especially when the perimeter detector is armed and remote transmitter is active. (I tried using the Battery Tender 'Junior' but had an unsuccessful experience with it.)

Additionally, I've seen some compromising remote garage/gate opener installation plans on the internet that parasitically draw from the battery and are triggered by an OEM switch or some combination of them. Of course you've aready determined that your opener is not the problem, but still, could there be remnants of some previous (now defunct) farkle installed by the other owner? :huh: Starting with the overall battery drain is a good place to establish a base line. Good luck with your hunt! Let us know what you find. I know what it's like to work in a cold garage with the space heater!

Here's to warmer days ahead!! :drinks:

 

[CrabbyJack]

From the original post...

"It's also interesting to note that the Datel reads about a half a volt low according to my Fluke 88, but that could be due to voltage drop across [SIZE=12pt]crusty connections. [/SIZE] Not really sure how it's wired in, since it was installed by the previous owner (someone you all know and love), but it does make me at least a bit curious."

Check over the battery connections. "Clean, Bright, and Tight" Your tender is trying to push juice into the battery through those same crusty connections.

CrabbyJack

 

[johndaub]

For the sake of argument, figure sucking 30% of the battery's charge off is bad..3*12Ah=3.6Ah

3.6Ah/1ma=150days

So a 10ma draw would be OK for maybe 15days.

Learned the hard way. Left the Garmin 478 charging for 3 days (of course it was off and should stop drawing when its battery charged) and battery dead (as far as the starter was concerned). Now I always park it with tender on at home.

 

[S76]

Although as I mentioned before, the Datel reads about a half volt low all the time, at least according to my Fluke multi-meter (you'd like to believe a $500 meter is accurate). That little factoid makes me suspect that the reference source is also switched through a relay, which could account for the voltage drop.
Ya know, now that I think about it, there's an unidentified wire spliced into the front running lights. I've wondered about it, but figured it was (seemingly) causing no harm, so no foul.

Sounds like your PO did the same thing I did. I wired my Datel into the front running light so it would be automatically switched with the key. That would explain the unidentified wire, and mine also reads .5 volt low due to the draw of the lights.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Well now I just feel foolish for putting off this diagnosis so long, since it took a WHOPPING five minutes! Feel free to confirm my diagnosis here.

Parasitic draw (in milliamps) with everything connected but switched off;

Parasitic draw with XM power supply cord disconnected;

Ya think I found the problem?? Now mind you, there's no radio in the cradle right now, and even if I disconnect the power supply at the cradle, the draw is still there. So apparently it's all the electro-wizardry encased in that power supply plug to regulate the voltage to the head unit. I guess my $8 Fleabay multimeter was good enough after all.

I'll have to find someplace to locate a tiny toggle switch before the voltage regulator. Case closed!

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

 

[Fred W]

Good job. Thanks for closing the case.

Nice $8 meter too!

 

[Geezer]

Power the XM radio through a switched power source rather than going directly to the battery. That way it will only be able to draw power when the key is on.

You can find switched power on the windscreen auto-retract, the running lights, or the horn circuit.