Purchase of Out-of-State Motorcycles

[FiveG]

I've given consideration about making offers for out-of-state bikes on this forum and others. Having never done it before, what's the usual way the parties work the delivery? In other words, if I, as the buyer, fly to Illinois to get the bike, do you typically ride it back on the seller's plates and insurance, or do you typically sign up your own plate/insurance? (Which is likely a problem if you haven't inspected it yet).

I suspect a lot of you have done this before, so I'm looking for standard practice.

Thanks.

 

[Ignacio]

Part of the point is that each state can...and do have different rules. You should probably contact your own state and get their rules.

Doing a little Googling on Connecticut buying out of state vehicles I find quickly an FAQ by your state on the subject.

As for insurance...again a business that's regulated differently in each state...I'd call them to tell them what you're thinking and see if they have any requirements or suggestions.

I just know Washington. When I bought an Oregon motorcycle I made sure I had the state required documents and forms (again Googling I easily found them)...and let my insurance company know by phone. The latter noted it and said I was covered for 15 days automatically....until I called back with the VIN number and registration was in my name in my home state.

 

[Fred W]

Here's what I have done for the buyers of the last couple of vehicles that I sold.

I think this would work, and be legal in any state.

But, since I'm in New England, to be honest have not researched it in Utah.

Here's the big catch22: It is impossible to obtain a temp reg in NH, or most of the other New England States, until you already have ownership.

However, a buyer can buy insurance on the vehicle beforehand. :blink: I'm not making this up.

To allow the buyer to get the thing home on the day of exchange, I will make out two copies of the Bill of Sale, which states that the sale is "as-is where is" with no warranty, etc. We both sign both copies and each of us keeps one. The Bill of Sales are post dated for the next day (after the physical vehicle exchange), with the foreknowledge and agreement of the buyer. So, even after the buyer has given me the cash (I will only take cash) I still "technically" own it until the next day.

I also leave my insurance active until the post date to protect myself. Buyer can get his own insurance or not. His choice. Buyer rides the bike or drives the car home on my plate. In essence, I am allowing him to drive my car to his house. And we have both agreed (in writing) that the sale of the asset will actually take place the next day. But I have his cash in my hand and he already has my vehicle in his garage, so we both know the deal is done.

The next day, after hearing all is well, I cancel the insurance and he sends me my plate back. In NH there is no tie between the two. In other words I can cancel my reg, or insurance, at will. No need to provide proof of anything (that does vary by state).

In one case the guy that bought the car didn't send my plate back, but it expired the following month anyway. If he was driving the car around on my old plate, he would have to answer to authorities on that, not me.

 

[El Toro]

As was pointed out, there's no uniformity from one state to another.

If I am the seller, I am not loaning my plate, nor giving insurance coverage to a buyer. The sale is effective (and possession is given) when the payment is confirmed (cash is confirmed immediately). I sign over the title, and the buyer is on his own immediately. I take my plate, cancel my insurance, and that's that.

If I am the buyer, I usually take a trailer and load the bike for the trip home without a plate. I have extra plates around most of the time, and so I'll stick one on when I get home. In Tennessee the plate is mine until it expires (after one year from date of issue). I usually buy and sell often enough that I have at least one unexpired plate laying around. I have to go to the County Clerk to get it updated to the new vehicle, which I do concurrent with getting the Tennessee Title.

I've never expected any seller to cover my butt on either a plate or insurance. If you're buying from a dealer, some dealer's insist that you have a temporary plate before you leave the dealer, even if you have no intention of riding the bike in their state. There are some dealers that I have done repeat business with, and after a few bikes, I've gotten them to leave this charade out of the deal.

As a buyer, I offer to show up within a day or two, with cash. A paypal deposit can be used to prove sincerity, or a credit card deposit if its a dealer. Most folks like cash if they can get it.

I did buy a bike that had to be shipped to me once (from MAX in New Hampshire). I did a deposit directly into his Bank of America account, and they fed exed me the MSO and other paperwork. The bike showed up, with the totally useless New Hampshire temporary tag, at the appointed time.

As for test rides, If the guy seems competent and has a motorcycle endorsement and gear, I'll let him ride the bike, but I tag along on one of the other bikes.

 

[Bounce]

Bought mine at D&H (and will again). Out of state means no GA state sales tax. Go home with the Cert of Origin and the sales documents, register it there and pay the taxes at that time. If I were to buy it somewhere that a dealer didn't understand the rules, I'd show that I had paid taxes there and only pay the difference when registering (if their % was lower than my local %). It then becomes and issue between states to iron out what one state owes mine for collecting from a non-resident.

I ride home tagless or with a printed tag laminated put back there that essentially states "in transit". I keep a copy of the BoS with me as well as insurance docs. that's usually good for between 15 and 45 days depending on the home state. If pulled over, I'm waiting to get home to transfer ownership with my home DPS. Once home I seldom dawdle with the process. Never been a problem.

In the case of D&H I never put anything back there and rode around for 2 weeks (maybe more) until I could get time off to go to the tagging agent. Not one problem (hoonishness is contra-indicated).

As for me selling my bike: No test rides until cash is in hand and a BoS is signed by both of us. If requested, I include a statement that there's a 30 minute grace time where it can be brought back (without mechanical or cosmetic harm) for a full refund. I expect nothing less from those whom I buy.

 

[Fred W]

As was pointed out, there's no uniformity from one state to another.
If I am the seller, I am not loaning my plate, nor giving insurance coverage to a buyer.

I understand what you are saying, but if you don't mind me asking: What expense or liability am I assuming, that you are somehow avoiding, by taking your position? I am one of the biggest cynics going. So I would not expose myself to possible malfeasance if I could see some way that I could be "taken advantage of". Maybe it has to do with how states handle registrations differently.

In NH, unless I plan on transferring a plate to a different vehicle, which in most cases ends up costing more than just getting a anew one, the plate old just ends up going in the trash and any remaining months on the plate are lost. In terms of insurance, an extra day of coverage is negligible. Generally they pro-rate an ins policy to the remaining month, (not to the day) when refunding the remaining months.

Also, the extra day of insurance is covering me and my liability, not the buyer, except to the extent that I am allowing him to ride my bike. Consider it a 1 day test ride, but I have his cash in my hand.

Obviously we all deal with these situations differently. I'm just curious to what advantage is it to take such a hard line view. Maybe I'm missing something? But it has worked for fine for me to be both in the giving and receiving end of the day use of the seller's plate.

 

[Fred W]

I ride home tagless or with a printed tag laminated put back there that essentially states "in transit". I keep a copy of the BoS with me as well as insurance docs. that's usually good for between 15 and 45 days depending on the home state. If pulled over, I'm waiting to get home to transfer ownership with my home DPS. Once home I seldom dawdle with the process. Never been a problem.

See, that's where the rules are vastly different by state. You can't ride tagless here. 100% chance of being pulled over if a LEO sees you. Then you WILL get a ticket. There is no grace period. None. You either have registration or you are driving unregistered which is a misdemeanor. No gray area.

 

[El Toro]

As was pointed out, there's no uniformity from one state to another.
If I am the seller, I am not loaning my plate, nor giving insurance coverage to a buyer.

I understand what you are saying, but if you don't mind me asking: What expense or liability am I assuming, that you are somehow avoiding, by taking your position? I am one of the biggest cynics going. So I would not expose myself to possible malfeasance if I could see some way that I could be "taken advantage of". Maybe it has to do with how states handle registrations differently.

In NH, unless I plan on transferring a plate to a different vehicle, which in most cases ends up costing more than just getting a anew one, the plate old just ends up going in the trash and any remaining months on the plate are lost. In terms of insurance, an extra day of coverage is negligible. Generally they pro-rate an ins policy to the remaining month, (not to the day) when refunding the remaining months.

Also, the extra day of insurance is covering me and my liability, not the buyer, except to the extent that I am allowing him to ride my bike. Consider it a 1 day test ride, but I have his cash in my hand.

Obviously we all deal with these situations differently. I'm just curious to what advantage is it to take such a hard line view. Maybe I'm missing something? But it has worked for fine for me to be both in the giving and receiving end of the day use of the seller's plate.

Once I have the money and he has possession and the title, I'm done with it. Why would I want to continue to carry insurance, or post-date the title? That's not a hard line approach, its just logical.

When the bike is sold, its sold, and whatever further issues might or might not come into play are the buyer's problem, not mine. FWIW, we don't have a proof of insurance requirement here to either register a vehicle or to get a driver's license. If you have an accident and you can't pay for the damages, then you're in trouble after the fact, but since you can't squeeze blood from a rock, the injured party probably won't get much consolation if they're not insured against uninsured motorists.

A guy who rides off without insurance here is perfectly legal, but if he's in a wreck and he has no insurance, it would not be surprising for a good lawyer to come after the seller, especially if the seller isn't formally the seller until the next day.

Edit: Just checked - The way the law is currently written, it isn't legal to ride/drive without insurance or proof of financial responsibility within minimal limits, but there is no enforcement until after the fact.

I don't suggest that your approach is wrong for you, or for NH .... It just isn't something for me in TN. When the money changes hands and the title is signed over, I don't want to have any connection to whatever happens next. Don't want the bike back, running or not. Don't want to hear about buyer's remorse. Don't want to share stories of seller's remorse. Done is done.

 

[fljab]

Part of the point is that each state can...and do have different rules. You should probably contact your own state and get their rules.
Doing a little Googling on Connecticut buying out of state vehicles I find quickly an FAQ by your state on the subject.

Great advice; I can tell you the way it works for me in Florida when I buy out of state.

I go down to the FL DMV and tell them that I've bought a vehicle out of state/give them the VIN. They write me a temp (30 day iirc) tag to put on the bike/car. I call my insurance company and tell them and they email me a proof of insurance.

So I go, do the deal, ride/drive it back, then I have to go to FL DMV again and make it "official". FL DMV needs to verify VIN numbers personally before they will transfer the title/issue tags. That can be done another way by having the seller fill out a Florida form and have a local law enforcement official sign it, but I've always had a hard time getting that done either because the seller doesn't want to trouble with it, or the one time I got someone to do it, they didn't fill it out correctly so had to take it in anyway.

Which is why, now, I just get the temp tag and do it that way.

CT may have a comparable program; much easier IMO.

 

[phroenips]

As was pointed out, there's no uniformity from one state to another.
If I am the seller, I am not loaning my plate, nor giving insurance coverage to a buyer.

I understand what you are saying, but if you don't mind me asking: What expense or liability am I assuming, that you are somehow avoiding, by taking your position? I am one of the biggest cynics going. So I would not expose myself to possible malfeasance if I could see some way that I could be "taken advantage of". Maybe it has to do with how states handle registrations differently.

In NH, unless I plan on transferring a plate to a different vehicle, which in most cases ends up costing more than just getting a anew one, the plate old just ends up going in the trash and any remaining months on the plate are lost. In terms of insurance, an extra day of coverage is negligible. Generally they pro-rate an ins policy to the remaining month, (not to the day) when refunding the remaining months.

Also, the extra day of insurance is covering me and my liability, not the buyer, except to the extent that I am allowing him to ride my bike. Consider it a 1 day test ride, but I have his cash in my hand.

Obviously we all deal with these situations differently. I'm just curious to what advantage is it to take such a hard line view. Maybe I'm missing something? But it has worked for fine for me to be both in the giving and receiving end of the day use of the seller's plate.

In CO, the plates stay with the previous owner. I could forsee a problem if there was an accident, red light camera, parking violation, whatever, where you have to fight just because it had your plates on it. I'd like to remove that potential headache from the realm of possibility.

 

[Fred W]

I could forsee a problem if there was an accident, red light camera, parking violation, whatever, where you have to fight just because it had your plates on it. I'd like to remove that potential headache from the realm of possibility.

Accidents go against a driver, never against a vehicle, no matter what state you are in.

OTOH. Parking violations and Red light cameras are another issue. You are right, they could send you a violation notice for either one of those. All you'd need to do is show them that you sold the vehicle in question on XX/YY date and you'd be done. But that may be more than you're willing to do.

 

[El Toro]

I could forsee a problem if there was an accident, red light camera, parking violation, whatever, where you have to fight just because it had your plates on it. I'd like to remove that potential headache from the realm of possibility.

Accidents go against a driver, never against a vehicle, no matter what state you are in.

OTOH. Parking violations and Red light cameras are another issue. You are right, they could send you a violation notice for either one of those. All you'd need to do is show them that you sold the vehicle in question on XX/YY date and you'd be done. But that may be more than you're willing to do.

Whatever happens during the day your still the owner would appear to be yours if you post date your bill of sale, even if you go through the contortions to try to get it sorted out.

I can't speak for NH, but the ambulance chasing lawyers here are looking for as many parties as possible if there's any chance to get a settlement from multiple sources. Even if its just a nuisance, its still a nuisance. What would probably happen is your insurance company and the driver's insurance company (if he had one) would be duking it out over shared liability. The owner's insurance company might think they had no liability, but it would probably be argued that there was liability for foolishly loaning the bike (even for one day) to the irresponsible driver who caused the wreck. Unless you've got the guy's driving record, how do you even know who you're loaning to? If he has his own insurance, it could be through the risk pool. And then if you're the kind of guy who has high limits, and the other guy is the sort of guy who buys the minimum coverage, you're going to be drawn in just because your pockets are deeper.

My insurance companies tell me that I have a day of grace when I buy a new vehicle. They will cover the new vehicle at the same level as my coverage on the other vehicles with the expectation that I will call them as soon as possible. Nowadays, with cell phones, when I go to pick up a bike, I make the call when I'm ready to leave the point of sale.

A couple of years ago I asked my motorcycle insurance agent about test rides, or ride sharing with friends. Although its not spelled out in the policy, they said they would prefer no more than 10 test rides a year. My rates are obviously tied to my driving record, and so if other folks are doing the driving, the insurance company is unhappy with the unknown risk. There's nothing they could do to actually keep track of test rides or ride sharing, so the idea of limiting to 10 would appear to be unenforceable. Still, it shows how they're thinking.

Again the important take away is that the rules are different from state to state ... both for registration and for insurance.