Replacing cam chain - remove ignition rotor?

[griff]

My 03 has 45k and I am checking valves (have to replace shims on both cams) so I decided to replace the cam chain tensioner and cam chain while I'm at it (had some noise in the cam chain tensioner area). Ionbeam says I can get the cam chain by the ignition rotor without having to take it off (I think that's what he said, but I can't PM him because his mail box is full now - Hey, Ionbeam pm me!!)

So I'm wondering if others have replaced the cam chain without removing the rotor - the manual says to remove the rotor you have to hold the generator sheave on the other side while removing the rotor bolt. I hope I don't have to go that way since I just put the new stator in and don't want to have to take that cover off again.

Thanks for the help

griff/Carl

 

[griff]

I thought I would try getting the rotor bolt off with a hand impact driver, (Ionbeam took his off with an air impact wrench).

A couple of wacks and the bolt loosened right up - comes off CCW. Take off the bolt, washer and rotor and the cam chain comes right off the crank sprocket. Should go back together just as easy. So it doesn't seem to me you really need to take the stator off to get the ignition rotor off as the shop manual says. Or am I missing something?

My 03 has 45k and I am checking valves (have to replace shims on both cams) so I decided to replace the cam chain tensioner and cam chain while I'm at it (had some noise in the cam chain tensioner area). Ionbeam says I can get the cam chain by the ignition rotor without having to take it off (I think that's what he said, but I can't PM him because his mail box is full now - Hey, Ionbeam pm me!!)So I'm wondering if others have replaced the cam chain without removing the rotor - the manual says to remove the rotor you have to hold the generator sheave on the other side while removing the rotor bolt. I hope I don't have to go that way since I just put the new stator in and don't want to have to take that cover off again.

Thanks for the help

griff/Carl

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>... So it doesn't seem to me you really need to take the stator off to get the ignition rotor off as the shop manual says. Or am I missing something?

<snip> - the manual says to remove the rotor you have to hold the generator sheave on the other side while removing the rotor bolt. I hope I don't have to go that way since I just put the new stator in and don't want to have to take that cover off again.Thanks for the helpgriff/Carl

I think what they're getting at here (I don't have a manual or parts fiche) is the safest way to remove the bolt holding the ignition rotor to the crankshaft -- positively keeping the crankshaft from rotating while avoiding any possibility of damage. Anything with a hammer involved is to be avoided -- almost anywhere, but especially around the crankshaft (unless you want to straighten it -- but, that would presume it's already bent....). Better to hold it solidly somewhere (like alternator rotor) and loosen the bolt in question with a suitable wrench.

A parable:

Wally, "Can we take this rotor off?"

Other guy, "I don't have a puller."

Wally, "How 'bout we pry behind it and hit the end with a hammer?"

Other guy, "OK, I'll pry -- you hit."

Wally, "Sh%t! -- I didn't think the end of the crank would break-off like that...."

 

[griff]

I think what they're getting at here (I don't have a manual or parts fiche) is the safest way to remove the bolt holding the ignition rotor to the crankshaft -- positively keeping the crankshaft from rotating while avoiding any possibility of damage. Anything with a hammer involved is to be avoided -- almost anywhere, but especially around the crankshaft (unless you want to straighten it -- but, that would presume it's already bent....). Better to hold it solidly somewhere (like alternator rotor) and loosen the bolt in question with a suitable wrench.

A parable:

Wally, "Can we take this rotor off?"

Other guy, "I don't have a puller."

Wally, "How 'bout we pry behind it and hit the end with a hammer?"

Other guy, "OK, I'll pry -- you hit."

Wally, "Sh%t! -- I didn't think the end of the crank would break-off like that...."

You may be right about the hammer (although with a hand impact driver, that's how you get the bolt loose), but I'm not concerned about rotating the crank - at least clockwise because I have the cams out and all I am doing is rotating the crank independent of the valves. I have to retime the valves anyhow. Anyhow, the bolt is off without really wacking the end of the crank too hard and that's the way it is going back on. It doesn't require a large torque to retighten - can't remember the exact amount right now.

 

[Colin24]

Just did this job myself over the past couple weeks. Yes you need to remove that plate. Just bite the bullet and pull the stator cover on the other side of the engine. Then all you need is a wrench on the nut on that side to hold the crank from turning.

I'd be leary of an impact driver. Even if you got it off, you then have the problem of tightening it when you put it back on. I know some people would (and I in the past would have done this) put the bike in gear and use the rear brake. But I figure if its worth doing its worth doing right.

When reinstalling the cams be _very_ careful to get the alignment dead on. The diagrams in the manual had some confusing indicators on them. I eventually got it figured out. (Thank god I took lots of digital pics while I was disassembling!)

When reinstalling the cam chain kept wanting to jump a tooth on the cam sprockets when I wasn't looking. It took me two or three tries before I finally got the cams bolted in and the timing right. What I finally did was get the alignment on the sprocket to the chain correct first. Then I used a ziptie on each camshaft gear to hold the chain tight to the sprocket. This stopped the chain from jumping while I was tightening down the camshaft.

The other trick was once I figured out the alignment I could see that the tick marks would be facing the frame rail and would be impossible to see. So I took each camshaft over to the work bench and carefully transcribed the marks onto the back side of the cam gears. This way I didn't have to peer between the frame rail and the engine to see if the alignment was correct.

Did it all work out for me and did I get the timing correct? Ask me in a couple weeks when I start the bike up for the first time!

Anyways, Hope this helps

- Colin

 

[griff]

Colin: Thanks for the tip about keeping the cam chain on the sprocket when tightening down the cams. Haven't got that far yet. As far as seeing the line up marks on the sprockets, I can see fairly clearly on the outside of the sprockets the line up marks. I'll have to check and make sure that I'm looking at the right marks! You are right about the shop manual being kind of confusing, but it looks like one of the views in the manual is actually looking down the cams from the number one cylinder side. Hopefully I'll get mine running this weekend.

griff/Carl

 

[griff]

You are right about the shop manual being kind of confusing, but it looks like one of the views in the manual is actually looking down the cams from the number one cylinder side.

Upon further review, the shop manual view is actually from number 4 cylinder down the cams to number one. Sorry.

 

[Colin24]

Okay, a bit of an update.

I succesfully started the bike this weekend. :yahoo: Woohoo!! :yahoo:

Which means that yes, I did get the timing right. (I was pretty sure I had gotten it right, but hearing it start right up and run as smooth as when it was new again is very reassuring)

The problem I had with the diagram in the shop manual was two fold.

1- The lobes in the diagram (which I figured were cyl#4) where in the approximate orientation, but not the exact orientation.

2- The diagrams indicated a small hole in the shaft itself. I never figured out what hole they meant. The only one I could find was an oiling gallery hole, and it was out by about 45 degrees from the diagram.

So I ignored the exact precision of the lobe in the diagram and the oiling hole. Thankfully I had taken a digital pic when I was just starting disassembly and had not moved the cams too far yet. I was able to use it to get the orientation correct, then used the tick marks on the gear (and the ones I put on the back side) for the final alignment.

The other PITA item is the cam chain tensioner which I also replaced. Yes it can be replaced with the engine in the frame. However this should only be attempted when you are in a serene, calm and peaceful state of mind. It can be replaced but it takes an inordinate amount of patience, both for removal and reinstallation.

Removing the bolt holding the idle speed adjuster in place allows you to push the idle adjuster back in and gives you a bit more room to work. When I replaced mine I dropped the old one out and ou thte new one in from underneath and moving the idle adjuser gave me room.

The lower bolt (of the two holding the tensioner in place) is by far the most difficult. I was able to use a magnetic pick up tool to place a 1/4" drive socket on the bolt, then inserted a long extension through the hole in the frame. This allowed me to remove the bolt half way. Once the bolt is half way out you have to remove the socket and switch to a wrench, as the bolt coming out traps the socket agains the frame if you try and remove it the whole way. Installation is the reverse. Using fingers, magnetic and remote grabber tools I was able to get the bolt started and slowly screwed it in. Once it was most of the way in I switched to the socket to properly (mostly) tighten the bolt.

One saving grace was that the new tensioner from yamaha came with a small little metal clip that kept the tensioner retracted for shipping so that they could use a smaller box. Leaving this in place made reinstallation a whole lot easier too.

Hope this helps

Colin

 

[griff]

Ok, I guess it's my turn for an update

Got my new cam chain on this weekend, plus cam chain tensioner, not to mention having to change 4 valve shims. I got the timing rotor bolt retorqued by putting the bike in gear and holding the rear brake. Easily got the torque required on the bolt without having the crank turn (and not taking off the stator). I agree the shop diagram is somewhat confusing about the cams, but the article by Torch discusses the holes in the cam that need to line up with the little arrows on the cam holders. Making sure the T mark on the ignition rotor is in the right position and the holes on the cam shaft and the cam holder arrows line up was not too difficult. I used a long pick with a hook on the end to turn the bolts in on the cam chain tensioner. And like Colin I discovered that you really did need to loosen the idle adjustment knob to get the tensioner in and out.

But there was that initial moment of anxiety when you first turn it over after a valve shim ectomy. Started right up, sounds good, maybe even quieter than before!! Just have to put the tupperware back on and away we go. Except for the still crappy Indiana weather.

griff