Rewiring Stator

[Jim Owen]

Ok, I am sure I am going to show my ignorance of the FJR and it's systems but here goes h34r:

Has anyone done a stator rewire to increase the electrical capacity of the bike?? If so who did it, where was it done, what were the results. Increases in output and reliability are key issues for me. this would be for a 2006 model when it arrives.

Jim Owen

 

[Warchild]

Ok,  I am sure I am going to show my ignorance of the FJR and it's systems but here goes  h34r:
Has anyone done a stator rewire to increase the electrical capacity of the bike??  If so who did it, where was it done, what were the results.  Increases in output and reliability are key issues for me.  this would be for a 2006 model when it arrives. 

Jim Owen

Your answers in order:

1) Yes.

2) Me.

3) Sunnyside Yamaha

4) Inconclusive - no observed benefit from casual testing.

We haven't pursued it much further for a variety of reasons. Specifically, now that we have the ability to install HID in stock housings (and of course as aux lamps), the issue has been less of a problem, though of course, one can't have too much power on tap.

Yet, I can light off PHIDs and a Widder vest at full blast, and still stay in the 13.1-13.3v range. I am only now installing HID in my stock H4 housings, and this is going to save and additonal 36 watts over hi-beam (26-watts over low-beam).

Generally speaking, you have roughly 120-130 surplus watts to play with (above that it takes to run the bike). Much beyond that, and you're going to see your Datel dip into the mid-upper 12v range, a practice which is undesirable for a long, healthy stator life.

 

[Ignacio]

Ok, I am sure I am going to show my ignorance of the FJR and it's systems but here goes h34r:
Has anyone done a stator rewire to increase the electrical capacity of the bike?? If so who did it, where was it done, what were the results. Increases in output and reliability are key issues for me. this would be for a 2006 model when it arrives.

Jim Owen

Welcome Jim!

I was just saying in another thread that after watching your efficiency on a BMW--you're gonna be unbeatable on this platform.

....I know, I know, it's not speed, ......but somehow.....I think when you get a hold of the throttle on this bike you're going to be able to go past 10........clear to 11.

I played monkey boy when Dale installed the test stator and we were hoping for noticable increases in voltage when under load. Maybe .1 volts. Maybe you know how BMW gets all those watts out of their systems and we're missing something, but we can't see to stuff more windings in the stators. We can change the gauge wire to larger and use special wire, but that doesn't seem to fix things in the one test stator.

At least we're not V-Stroms or 250 Ninjas.

See you in Utah I hope.

Matt

 

[Jim Owen]

I am not sure I understand the results of your test. After rewiring the stator were you not able to sequnetially increase the load on the alternator and maintain voltage?? Not really having any experience with doing this type of thing I am not even sure how to proceed. I'd be interested in what exactly you did to the stator.

I'm interested of course because I am not so quick to give up my Gerbings. Not that I have anything against Widder, I love the guy and his support of the LD community. But the convieinece and ease of use with the Gerbing liners is something to be said in the competitive environment.

So the bottom line is: I will most likely replace stock headlights(both low and high beams) with HID. I'll take the PHIDs off the RT and install them on the FJR. I'll have the Gerbings wich draw 111 watts full draw(77 jacket liner, 44 pants liner). After that I'll want to run heated grips, and the various assundry light draw items like GPS, V1, etc.

Do I really need an increased capacity??

:huh:

Jim Owen

 

[SkooterG]

I think you will be in trouble. Yes, you would like to have an increased capacity, but that is not available currently.

The 111 watts of your heated clothing uses up almost all the spare electrical power of the FJR's alternator.

By switching to HID headlights, you should gain back enough watts to run your heated clothing and the PHIDs simultaneously, IMHO.

However, now if you throw in heated grips (how many watts are they?), that will be too much. IMHO.

You MAY be ok with all the above, but it is going to be dangerously close.

Of course, if you are not using the full wattage of heated clothing and grips, that should help. Sounds like a Datel Voltmeter will be an absolutely necessary farkle for you.

 

[Warchild]

So the bottom line is: I will most likely replace stock headlights(both low and high beams) with HID. I'll take the PHIDs off the RT and install them on the FJR. I'll have the Gerbings wich draw 111 watts full draw(77 jacket liner, 44 pants liner). After that I'll want to run heated grips, and the various assundry light draw items like GPS, V1, etc.
Do I really need an increased capacity??

Yes, you do, if you insist on all these items together.

You're sorta dicked here, my brother.... you need to give up the notion of having all these items burning concurrently on the FJR.

The V1 and GPS, etc are trivial draws, and we won't even add them into the equation here. Swapping out a couple of running lights with LED equivalents will cover them easily

But if you insist on keeping the watt-sucking Gerbings, then you will have to heavily moderate your use of your PHIDs. Fortunately for you, the FJR's reflector housing is several orders of magnitude superior to the Beemer you are coming from, and it is ENTIRELY possible that properly aimed HIDs in your stock housing alone will more than do the job. Very few folks have tried HID in the FJR's stock housings; I tried an early-generation (circa '99-'00) "shielded" HID in my FJR last year, and it proved to be problematic to the point where I removed it. However, late generation "shielded" HID capsules for the H4 application are substantially different. I am just this weekend installing the very latest version of H4 HID in my FJR... results will be forthcoming very soon.

Back to FJR electrical issues....

Now, it is true that you can run your Gerbings with your PHIDs if you have an appropriate electronic controller (which I know you do) set on LOW. You can run like this for a while, but probably not on an ongoing basis (i.e.: many hours in a row, like throughout the night). By husbanding your Datel, you'll see that you'll need to occasionally shut one system down for a while to let your battery charge back up to full. But again, if the "moving capsule" HID that I am experimenting with now proves to do what I believe it will do, you're in luck. The H4 HID on "hi-beam" saves you 36-watt over the equivalent in halogen, while giving you enough light to safely run at rally speeds at night. In this case, you can run your Gerbings on "full" and probably have enough for heated grips as well.

In summary, here is what many (though not all) FJR pilots in LD circles traditionally do:

1) Widders.... to save electricity, significantly so over the Gerbings.

2) V-Strom Hand Guards - you can virtually get away WITHOUT heated grips by using these bad boys. See: 2nd-generation V-Strom Hand Guards

3) Cee Baileys' windscreen, +3" wider than stock. This really helps keep you out of the airstream when the temps drops

4) Yamaha Foot Guards - these are essential for all-weather, hard-core runners like yourself, trust me. See: Yamaha Foot Guards

5) Datel voltmeter. This is your #1 weapon in your combat against electrical woes. Mount it such that it is virually line-of-sight for easy reference. Word.

 

[Ignacio]

Let the farkling begin!

I concur on the V-Strom Handguards and windshield and run the PNW winters. I don't have heated clothing (yet) and do become a chicken below 25 degrees.

I'm 6'4" and went with the +4 tall + 2 width and very happy with it. Besides making a better pocket of protection--it's less turbulent for me. The stock just doesn't even come close.

 

[Toecutter]

I am just this weekend installing the very latest version of H4 HID in my FJR... results will be forthcoming very soon.

And typing with the other hand? Or, are you all done and just waiting for it to get dark? Either way, you ARE the man!

But seriously, thanks for the info. It'll make a nice to-do list for future farkling.

 

[BrunDog]

...However, late generation "shielded" HID capsules for the H4 application are substantially different. I am just this weekend installing the very latest version of H4 HID in my FJR...

Ahhh, I don't mean to rain on Jim's parade, but shouldn't you be doing something other than sitting at your computer, WC??

Quit typing and get wrenching, please!

-BD

**Edit: Oh, how funny. Toecutter slipped his in before mine!! Great minds... Any way, I digress. It's 8:14 here, that shoud mean in about two hours it will be nice and dark where you are. I'll assume you'l post pictures another hour after that. Should be plenty of time for you... -BD **

 

[ChrisW]

Hi Jim,

I've had some experience with re-wound stators. I had my stock 99 VFR stator rewound here:

https://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

I spoke at length with Rick himself. Really nice guy BTW. It was a while ago so some of the details are a bit foggy.

I was having charging issues and needed to replace the stator anyway. This route was about $60 cheaper than a new OEM Honda part. He charges a bit extra to add more wires and wanted to make it clear to me that the rewound Stator will provide more power, but only at higher RPM. The Stock unit made maximum output at 5K RPM. He said that I would need to wind it up to about 7K RPM to get max charge out of the new unit. 7K on the interceptor is about 100 mph in top gear.

So I went with the hight output stator but noticed no improvement on the voltmeter when running all the rally gear. Even when going down a gear, I found that I had to just choose between lights or heat.

Fast forward about 2 years. I replaced the entire electrical system on the bike with OEM parts. The entire system!

The stator that Rick's rewound for me was not pretty. I don't know if I can blame it tho. I think there was a short in the wiring harness somewhere, and Honda is not known for the robustness of the Reg/Rec's. Build quality yes, electrics no. Another thing, the interceptor was getting mileage in the low 30's since before I put Rick's stator in. Now that I have replaced all the wiring it's in the high 30's. I think the bike was having problems since long before that.

Even though I replaced the rewound stator with an OEM unit, I sent the rewound stator back to rick's, and he rewound it again and sent it back to me at no charge. It's still on the shelf.

So .... I don't think that you can improve on the charging system the engineers in Japan put together. By increasing the output, if it actually does, you can put you R/R at risk of having a melt-down, cooking your battery, melting a wire in the harness somewhere, and cooking the stator.

But.... If you decide to give it a try, I can recomend Rick.

I've found that the best solution for me has been Widder heated gear, and HID's.

Hand guards, and a big windsheild help too.

After the VFR, the FJR seems to have more than enough output

 

[Ramblin Man]

You're sorta dicked here, my brother.... you need to give up the notion of having all these items burning concurrently on the FJR.

I have posed this question before with no response, so let me try again.

What if you had a solid state multi relay kind of thing that you could plug all of your heated gear into which would switch one item on at a time for ten seconds or some amount of time? That way only one piece would be drawing current at a time. I don't know if that would work with the heated gear or not.

 

[BrunDog]

Ramblin Man,

This could be easily accomplished. Electric heaters are big resistors, power dissipated is a function of current * time. So powering them intermittently would serve the same as function as powering them via a rheostat. You're choice, but same result. Obviously, you will get less heat by doing this.

Also, to comment on rewound stators: If there is not enough room to add more copper, you won't generate more power. In addition, I think a new rectifier and regulator would have to be fitted to handle the additional potential generated by the stator.

-BD

 

[Jim Owen]

In summary, here is what many (though not all) FJR pilots in LD circles traditionally do:
1) Widders.... to save electricity, significantly so over the Gerbings.

2) V-Strom Hand Guards - you can virtually get away WITHOUT heated grips by using these bad boys. See: 2nd-generation V-Strom Hand Guards

3) Cee Baileys' windscreen, +3" wider than stock. This really helps keep you out of the airstream when the temps drops

4) Yamaha Foot Guards - these are essential for all-weather, hard-core runners like yourself, trust me. See: Yamaha Foot Guards

5) Datel voltmeter. This is your #1 weapon in your combat against electrical woes. Mount it such that it is virually line-of-sight for easy reference. Word.

Well this is certainly a great discussion and very good advice. That's my first thought. Immediately on the heels of the is Oh My God this is gona hurt. Coming from a 700 watt alternator AND running an extra battery in the beemer gave me nothing to worry about. guess I'll be giving Mr. Widder a jingle

Thanks Warchild for the list of farkles. Looks like a good place as any to start.

Jim Owen

 

[Zzooomm]

Jim,

I still contend that you can keep your Gerbings and turn the HeatTroller down and you will receive the same heat as you would with Widder gear on high. X watts =X BTUs of heat does it not? Then at least during those cold winter days or when your option is certain hypothermia versus better lighting, you have more heat.

 

[Ramblin Man]

So why do the windings need to be copper? Isn't silver a better conductor?

Next question. Say we slice off the end of the alternator cover and machine a new cover that gives you more room so you can make the stator and rotor an inch longer?

Or how about machining a new cover all together that would allow you to make the stator 1/2 wider in diameter.

Or what bikes out there make enough power? I heard BMW mentioned. Does Yamaha make a bike with a higher wattage alternator? Sounds like the easiest thing would be to find something that looks close, makes the power, and then figure out a way to graft it on.

 

[Warchild]

Sounds like the easiest thing would be to find something that looks close, makes the power, and then figure out a way to graft it on.

I just shook my head in amazement (and disgust) when I read my '05 R1's Service Manual on the alternator specs... ready for this?

560-watts @ 5000 RPM, nominal. :angry:

This tiny track bike produces 70 more watts than our big, 2-up purpose-built touring rig.... just can't figure out Yamah's logic sometimes... :blink:

In the case of the newer R1's, one of the big drivers for the heftier alternator is it's four (4) 55-watt H7 bulbs in the headlamp housing. That's a noteworthy 220-watt draw while on hi-beam. :bigeyes:

 

[sks700]

So if the FJR motor is based on the R1, why can't that set-up be made to work?

Lee

 

[Bounce]

So if the FJR motor is based on the R1, why can't that set-up be made to work?
Lee

Because it's not?

(based my read of all the discussions when the fjr hit the US, it's not based on the r1 motor. it was supposed to be a ground-up design that incorporated some of the engineering learned from the development of the r1.)

 

[sks700]

Gottcha, my understanding was that it was based on the same (similar) motor. I thought that maybe the bottom end was close to the same.

(trying to sound like Rosanna-Rosanna-Danna):uummm, nevermind!?

Lee