Riding Tips to share.

[kjc625]

Well I helped a friend of mine with slow riding techniques. He just bought a used Electra Glide with lots of chrome works and was scared to make tight turns. He did not want to drop that expensive bike. So he called me to help him with the slow riding techniques.

So we used my good old Kawasaki KZ1000P to go over some of the techniques. This bike went through many Officers at my work prior to their motorschool.

We spent total of 4 hours in Kawi and 1 hours in his bike. We attached rubber insulation pipes to protect his crashbars. (It worked fine. No damages)

So I watching him ride slow course.

24 feet U turn in both direction.

90 degree turn from stop in both direction.

24 feet circle in both direction.

Switch back (quick lane change)

He dropped my poor kawi everytime.

His problems

#1 He looked down at the cones. (Never look down. Instead look down toward the end of the course. Turn your head and your body will follow immediately)

#2 Failed to use clutch, rear brake and throttle to control the movement of the bike. (Understand the friction point and use rear brake and throttle to control the speed of the bike. As long as the rear wheel has movement, your bike will not fall down.)

So I had to teach him the friction point. (The friction point occures when you release your clutch just slightly and cause your bike to move forward)

Taught him to use constant throttle at whole time and use the rear brake to control to speed of the bike.

Lastly I constantly reminded him to turn his head toward where he needs to go and understand the proper road positioning.

So 5 hours later, He finally was able to make perfect turns everytime. However, he complained about his sored neck from turning so much.

I gave him one final advice. "Hey go get a man's bike. "FJR1300A""

INVITATION TO ALL SO CAL Riders.

On June 23rd Saturday, LAPD Newton division is holding 3rd Richardo Lizarraga Memorial Ride.

Officer Lizarraga was a good partner of mine and he died in line of duty while saving his partner and citizens of LA.

I currently building a FJR1300A police theme bike at Rock and Roll paint shop in Orange to honor Officer Lizarraga.

Please join me and other Officers from all over the State to celebrate his life and honor his dedication to protect and to serve.

Location: Laidlaw Harley Davidson Dealership.

Time: 8AM registration.

Riding Course: Laidlaw to Sage Brush Cantina in Camarillo.

Entry fee: Will be posted later

I will post more information later on.

Thanks everyone for supporting your police agency.

JIM

 

[feejer222]

Nice post, a bit far for me.

 

[Captain B]

Thanks for the tips. I wish I lived closer so I could join your ride. Words cannot express how much I appreciate seeing officers on bikes making the roads safer for all of us. Congratulations on what you are doing to memorialize your friend.

 

[Thug]

On the money there K!

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Visual directional control is a great concept to understand, especially before you get on a motorcycle. No mention of counter-weighting in those tight turns, though. I'm a little uncomfortable with the "As long as the rear wheel has movement, your bike will not fall down" comment (try applying front break in a slow speed tight turn or how about a low side).

Hat's off to you for teaching your friend those critical skills. Wish I could make your ride.

 

[Silver Penguin]

Well I helped a friend of mine with slow riding techniques. He just bought a used Electra Glide with lots of chrome works and was scared to make tight turns. He did not want to drop that expensive bike. So he called me to help him with the slow riding techniques.
Thanks everyone for supporting your police agency.

JIM

Sorry I can't make the ride, but I wish you well, and hope that lots of $$ are raised for the worthy cause.

Now, I have a question for you (and anyone else who cares to chime in with a suggestion). It regards slow speed skills, particularly the U-turn box. I have tried, and tried and tried again and just cannot do it. Not even close!

This last week, I was counseled out from my MSF coach training class when I failed the riding skills test, on that darned box, then making another stupid mistake because I was upset about the box.

I'm making exaggerated head turn, with my head and eyes up. I'm slipping the clutch and dragging the rear brake. I'm counterweighting in the turns. Practice, practice and practice some more and the frustration level grows.

I believe that my arms are too short to turn the bars fully. I'm unable to use the full lock on the steering. Most of my practice has been done on little MSF bikes because I'm afraid to drop the FJR. Yesterday, I spent an hour or so on my Ninja 650 and still couldn't do it.

Suggestions?

Jill

 

[FJRDriver]

Hi Jill, here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

During the 90s when I was an MSF Instructor, we didn't use the figure 8 in the box exercise; but back in the late 70s it was part of the curriculum. When a student was having a significant problem with the figure 8 exercise, he/she was advised to practice the following on their own:

Set up a box at least twice the size of the one used in the class in any empty parking lot. Practice the figure 8 giving yourself plenty of room for a good comfort level.

As you gain confidence, close down the size of the box by a few feet on all sides.

Continue to shrink the size of the box until you are at the size of the one used on the range for the MSF course.

This may take hours or even days to accomplish, but students that tried it found the results very rewarding, especially since they could practice at their own pace without any pressure.

One more thing -- do not practice for more than an hour or so at a time. Fatigue can quickly become an enemy and spoil your efforts.

Good luck!

 

[madmike2]

Hi Jill, here's my 2 cents for what it's worth.During the 90s when I was an MSF Instructor, we didn't use the figure 8 in the box exercise; but back in the late 70s it was part of the curriculum. When a student was having a significant problem with the figure 8 exercise, he/she was advised to practice the following on their own:

Set up a box at least twice the size of the one used in the class in any empty parking lot. Practice the figure 8 giving yourself plenty of room for a good comfort level.

As you gain confidence, close down the size of the box by a few feet on all sides.

Continue to shrink the size of the box until you are at the size of the one used on the range for the MSF course.

This may take hours or even days to accomplish, but students that tried it found the results very rewarding, especially since they could practice at their own pace without any pressure.

One more thing -- do not practice for more than an hour or so at a time. Fatigue can quickly become an enemy and spoil your efforts.

Good luck!

Now THAT'S some good, practical and applicable advice! :clapping:

 

[HIS2006]

Here is a good web site for slow speed maneuvering.

Ride Like A Pro

 

[Orient_Express]

Good advice from all - the more you practice slow speed manuevers, the more confident you become, as your skill level improves.

Now - if we just had reverse... ther's something to think about!!

 

[Pjturbo]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?

Phil

 

[Silver Penguin]

Here is a good web site for slow speed maneuvering.
Ride Like A Pro

All good advice, and I've tried it all. I have the RLAP DVD and really admire Motorman's techniques.

The catch is that my arms are too short!!!!!! I cannot turn even an MSF bike to full lock. I'm using all these wonderful advance techniques to try and compensate for not doing the very basic, core of the exercise. I am not turning the handlebars fully, because I darned well can't reach. (Can you hear the frustration here?)

I'm wondering about attempting the skill, dirt bike style, standing on the pegs. Or perhaps abandoning thoughts of good riding posture and lying my chest onto the tank. I'm already scooted as far forward as possible, sitting half seat and half tank.

Jill

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

The scoring for the MSF evaluation reflects the lower, relative importance of this exercise. Higher points are assessed for the other three elements of the test, ie cornering, swerving and quick stop.

Most students (with average length arms, of course) can do a pretty good job on the box first time and perfect the skill with a modest amount of practice, using the techniques taught.

 

[Barabus]

Here is a good web site for slow speed maneuvering.
Ride Like A Pro

Love this DVD Micheal. It changed my life, man!!

 

[madmike2]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

Its a matter of control. Many instructors will tell you that if you can control your bike at slow speeds then you can (should, might, may) be in control at higher speeds. High speed requires speed/distance perception but the control inputs are the habits they are trying to develop.

The idea of being able to control your bike at "parking lot" speeds means that you are familiar with the control mechanisms that cause the bike to move. Of course, you are not going to practice counter-steering in a parking lot, but many of us ride in places that require a modicum of steering challenges in sub-45 mph and sub-25 mph situations.

IMO, the "control" oriented classes are leaning toward making riders focus on "what" they are doing. Hopefully that will translate into making better riders on the road. So MSF, Lee Parks, Ride Like A Pro, etc. are providing a much needed skill-set/mind-set program. The Streetmasters course never exceeds 45 mph, and there are many laps at 25 mph and "pad" exercises before one is allowed to circle at 45 mph. Repitition of proper techniques should manifest itself in good road riding habits.

Of course, high speed riding should be practiced at a supervised track day.

 

[taberah]

I would have to ask this...(pretty much knowing what you will all say)... what advantages are there for someone like me who's been riding for 5+ years in taking an MSF course (or the like)? Trial and error teaches well and I've thought of going to a class many times but never could justify the expense (plus, as a minister, I'm always working on Sundays and most classes are Saturday and Sunday)...

Any thoughts?

BC

 

[twowheelnut]

I don't intend to hijack this thread and don't mean to be a smart a-s, but what safety advantage is there in being able to make a slow sharp turn? How many riders are killed doing this manuver? Is MSF spending valuable time on a technique that at worst results in scratched chrome?
Phil

Its a matter of control. Many instructors will tell you that if you can control your bike at slow speeds then you can (should, might, may) be in control at higher speeds. High speed requires speed/distance perception but the control inputs are the habits they are trying to develop.

The idea of being able to control your bike at "parking lot" speeds means that you are familiar with the control mechanisms that cause the bike to move. Of course, you are not going to practice counter-steering in a parking lot, but many of us ride in places that require a modicum of steering challenges in sub-45 mph and sub-25 mph situations.

IMO, the "control" oriented classes are leaning toward making riders focus on "what" they are doing. Hopefully that will translate into making better riders on the road. So MSF, Lee Parks, Ride Like A Pro, etc. are providing a much needed skill-set/mind-set program. The Streetmasters course never exceeds 45 mph, and there are many laps at 25 mph and "pad" exercises before one is allowed to circle at 45 mph. Repitition of proper techniques should manifest itself in good road riding habits.

Of course, high speed riding should be practiced at a supervised track day.

+1 for what Mikey said.

Trust me when I tell you... Low speed spills can hurt every bit as much as high speed ones. The last moment of my recent crash was more akin to Artie Johnson doing one of his tricycle spills. Result: Two busted ribs, partial lung collapse, and some really choice bruising. It's best to learn low speed control under all conditions.

I would have to ask this...(pretty much knowing what you will all say)... what advantages are there for someone like me who's been riding for 5+ years in taking an MSF course (or the like)? Trial and error teaches well and I've thought of going to a class many times but never could justify the expense (plus, as a minister, I'm always working on Sundays and most classes are Saturday and Sunday)...
Any thoughts?

BC

Take it. One can never learn too much. I'm sure your congregation will give you a pass if they knew what you were doing and why. Besides, can't you just call Rent-A-Minister for a Sunday or two?

:grin:

 

[Silver Penguin]

I would have to ask this...(pretty much knowing what you will all say)... what advantages are there for someone like me who's been riding for 5+ years in taking an MSF course (or the like)? Trial and error teaches well and I've thought of going to a class many times but never could justify the expense (plus, as a minister, I'm always working on Sundays and most classes are Saturday and Sunday)...
Any thoughts?

BC

I don't see any advantage in you taking a basic MSF class at this point but have you looked into the Experienced Rider Course? Check out the MSF website for more details.

It's a half day course, which you could probably do on a Saturday, or on a Sunday afternoon. It costs much less than the beginner course and you do it on your own bike. There is no pass/fail. The exercises are similar to the basic level class but start out at a higher level. IE You will not be taught about the friction zone, motorcycle controls etc. What you will learn is more about slow speed skills, about braking, about cornering and stopping in a turn.

Trial and error does teach, but can also reinforce bad habits. I've heard of some riders who take this class every couple of years just to keep their skills sharp. I took the class a few years ago and learned a few things.

Jill

Besides, can't you just call Rent-A-Minister for a Sunday or two?
:grin:

Perhaps TWN would step in (or roll in, in a wheelchair) and take care of your congregation for a Sunday or two. You could suggest a topic for the sermon.

Imagine the possibilities! <_<

Jill

 

[JohnnySokkoFlyingFjr]

I don't see any advantage in you taking a basic MSF class at this point but have you looked into the Experienced Rider Course? Check out the MSF website for more details.

Jill

After talking to MANY riders who have decades in the saddle, after taking the Basic Rider course with MSF.

They all learned, and were better riders as a result.

just my 2 cents

John

 

[FJRDriver]

I don't see any advantage in you taking a basic MSF class at this point but have you looked into the Experienced Rider Course? Check out the MSF website for more details.

Jill

After talking to MANY riders who have decades in the saddle, after taking the Basic Rider course with MSF.

They all learned, and were better riders as a result.

just my 2 cents

John

[SIZE=18pt]A BIG +1 JOHN ![/SIZE]