My local Yamaha rep called me this evening regarding this problem. He wanted to know when I could get the bike into the dealer for diagnosis. Having already talked to the service manager I am aware of the "plan of attack". I know they want to do the usual TBS, check diagnostic codes and sensors AND ride it up into the mountains in attempt to reproduce the problem. The last point is where I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling in that they admitted that they need to reproduce the problem. I agree with that. The part where I have a problem is someone riding my bike 200+ miles trying to reproduce the problem. I asked the rep why the dealer, or better yet, Yamaha, take a bike of their own up and try and reproduce the problem? He said that wouldn't be fair to the dealer ...then I ask "...and it would be fair to the consumer?" I basically expressed I had no interest in donating my bike as a test specimen and if anything I would go out on my own and try and find a location to reproduce the problem rather then handing over the keys and telling them "call me when it's fixed". Perhaps I'm too anal but don't like the idea of someone putting a bunch of miles on my new bike at my expense.
Severe stumbling at altitude
- Thread starter greg97224
- Start date
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HaulinAshe
Well-known member
I should have posted this here in this thread...
JeffAshe,
I think you hit on a key point ..."TPS remains fixed for long periods". The first time my bike acted up I had been riding 3 straight hours down the Interstate ...off/on rain 54 degrees. Once i turned off the Interstate and began climbing up a pass the temps dropped to around 45 degrees and around 2000' it started to surge...badly. I stopped once and turned bike off and restarted and proceeded up pass to around 4100' and it still surged badly ...until I dropped down the other side to around 800' and the temps were back to 54 degrees.
I think you hit on a key point ..."TPS remains fixed for long periods". The first time my bike acted up I had been riding 3 straight hours down the Interstate ...off/on rain 54 degrees. Once i turned off the Interstate and began climbing up a pass the temps dropped to around 45 degrees and around 2000' it started to surge...badly. I stopped once and turned bike off and restarted and proceeded up pass to around 4100' and it still surged badly ...until I dropped down the other side to around 800' and the temps were back to 54 degrees.
Wingman
Well-known member
Sure would be nice to be able to hook up a laptop and go for a ride while logging data. I wonder if this is even possible?
I'm beginning to wonder if the ecm(programming) itself might be the real problem. Perhaps the ecm is just confused. . .that is one of the first signs of hypoxia you know.
David
I'm beginning to wonder if the ecm(programming) itself might be the real problem. Perhaps the ecm is just confused. . .that is one of the first signs of hypoxia you know.
David
teerex51
The Italian Scallion
Are these guys for real? I can't believe Cypress can't scare up a 2007 for test purposes. How shortsighted is that?
(Would the mention of the magic acronym NHTSA press the right buttons?
)Stef
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otubrab
Member
I've have an 07 FJR1300 since Feb. and have put 20,000 miles on it. I've experienced many, many episodes of stumbling most of them associated with altitude changes.
Recent example:
During the Memorial Day 3-day holiday I rode from Seattle to Pikes Peak. I left work in the Seattle area about 3:00pm and rode (through the night) through WA, OR, ID, UT and entered CO on highway 70 from the west. At Grand Junction, I switched to highway 50 and made my way to Pikes Pike from the west, arriving at the park at about 3:45 CO time. After paying the fee at the gatehouse, I started up the Pikes Peak road.
The FJR didn't want to run under load. The speed limits on that road are as low as 10 to 15mph. I attempted to ride that slowly, but the engine kept dying if I let the rpms drop below about 4000. It would idle normally, and until I started engaging the clutch it seemed normal. But the second a load was applied, the engine bogged down and died. It took me more than 2 hours to go the 19 or so miles from the gatehouse to the summit. I did this by reving the engine to about 3500-4000rpm and slipping the clutch--constantly--to keep the road speed low enough to stay under the speed limits and make the corners. I had to stop, I guess, about 20 times to rest my clutch hand. The engine died about that same number of times. No indication from the instruments anything was abnormal--temp was always showing about 4 to 5 LCD segments. I think the park entrance is on the order of 7000ft; the summit is 14,110ft.
When I got to the summit, I had severe arm and leg cramps and a killer headache. I rested for a hour or so before heading down. When I started down, the engine seemed to work normally, that is, it would accept a load at low rpm and not die--but going down Pikes Peak doesn't impose much of a load on the engine.
During the remainder of the trip--up to Rapid City, SD then back to Seattle, WA, on highway 90--there were numerous episodes of engine surging: at constant throttle on essentially level highway, the engine would rev slightly, then stutter.
Other episodes:
This one I can usually reproduce at will, but not always.
I live near Monroe, WA; elevation under 100ft. I frequently ride up to Stevens pass, 50 miles away, elevation 4200ft. On that ride, say a 4100ft elevation gain, while riding up grade the engine often does the surge then stutter thing--at constant throttle going up constant grade, I can't keep the engine speed constant. Usually, when I turn around at the summit to head back down, the engine will not take a load below about 4000rpm for several minutes.
I've tried several brands of fuel. The bike's mechanic, whom I believe to be very good, can't find anything out of spec. Don't know what's wrong, but at times this bike is genuinely un-fun to ride.
Recent example:
During the Memorial Day 3-day holiday I rode from Seattle to Pikes Peak. I left work in the Seattle area about 3:00pm and rode (through the night) through WA, OR, ID, UT and entered CO on highway 70 from the west. At Grand Junction, I switched to highway 50 and made my way to Pikes Pike from the west, arriving at the park at about 3:45 CO time. After paying the fee at the gatehouse, I started up the Pikes Peak road.
The FJR didn't want to run under load. The speed limits on that road are as low as 10 to 15mph. I attempted to ride that slowly, but the engine kept dying if I let the rpms drop below about 4000. It would idle normally, and until I started engaging the clutch it seemed normal. But the second a load was applied, the engine bogged down and died. It took me more than 2 hours to go the 19 or so miles from the gatehouse to the summit. I did this by reving the engine to about 3500-4000rpm and slipping the clutch--constantly--to keep the road speed low enough to stay under the speed limits and make the corners. I had to stop, I guess, about 20 times to rest my clutch hand. The engine died about that same number of times. No indication from the instruments anything was abnormal--temp was always showing about 4 to 5 LCD segments. I think the park entrance is on the order of 7000ft; the summit is 14,110ft.
When I got to the summit, I had severe arm and leg cramps and a killer headache. I rested for a hour or so before heading down. When I started down, the engine seemed to work normally, that is, it would accept a load at low rpm and not die--but going down Pikes Peak doesn't impose much of a load on the engine.
During the remainder of the trip--up to Rapid City, SD then back to Seattle, WA, on highway 90--there were numerous episodes of engine surging: at constant throttle on essentially level highway, the engine would rev slightly, then stutter.
Other episodes:
This one I can usually reproduce at will, but not always.
I live near Monroe, WA; elevation under 100ft. I frequently ride up to Stevens pass, 50 miles away, elevation 4200ft. On that ride, say a 4100ft elevation gain, while riding up grade the engine often does the surge then stutter thing--at constant throttle going up constant grade, I can't keep the engine speed constant. Usually, when I turn around at the summit to head back down, the engine will not take a load below about 4000rpm for several minutes.
I've tried several brands of fuel. The bike's mechanic, whom I believe to be very good, can't find anything out of spec. Don't know what's wrong, but at times this bike is genuinely un-fun to ride.
Make sure you post in this thread to track the altitude stumbling/surging problem.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=20661
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=20661
BobG
Well-known member
For the surging problem.
I, on my other bike was able to create and remove this type of problem.
I, while checking the vacuum, and cylinder synchronizing, decreased the starting point of the bikes vacuum pressure. Then balanced it. It ran like hell, bucking all over the place.
I then increased the amount of vacuum to a higher level and balanced it once again. This removed the surging.
I remember from the sync. procedure that there is a starting vacuum level on the FJRs Can this level be low on the bikes that are surging?
It may be that the vacuum is in tolerance but on the low side.
I know some mechanics only look at the balance of the cylinders, and sometimes overlook the amount of vacuum.
My bikes vacuum is adjusted at around 4800 ft elevation. My vacuum initial pressure had to be increased then the rest of the cylinders increased to match this balance. I have not had any of these symptoms, but I have not had this bike down to sea level yet.
Just a thought.
I, on my other bike was able to create and remove this type of problem.
I, while checking the vacuum, and cylinder synchronizing, decreased the starting point of the bikes vacuum pressure. Then balanced it. It ran like hell, bucking all over the place.
I then increased the amount of vacuum to a higher level and balanced it once again. This removed the surging.
I remember from the sync. procedure that there is a starting vacuum level on the FJRs Can this level be low on the bikes that are surging?
It may be that the vacuum is in tolerance but on the low side.
I know some mechanics only look at the balance of the cylinders, and sometimes overlook the amount of vacuum.
My bikes vacuum is adjusted at around 4800 ft elevation. My vacuum initial pressure had to be increased then the rest of the cylinders increased to match this balance. I have not had any of these symptoms, but I have not had this bike down to sea level yet.
Just a thought.
PA1195
Well-known member
Good thought...Spec. on page 3-9 of the GENII SVC. Manual is "Intake Vacuum 33.3 KPa (9.8 inHg or 250 mmHg)" for #3, the rest are supposed to be synched within 0.39 inHg or 10 mmHg of that value, and do same for GENI...mine was about 240 mmHg from the factory but will reset it per spec at the next synch...no issues here but no hills either...hope this helps.
Gary in Fairbanks
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ELP_JC
Well-known member
First time in a long time a bike doesn't have the air screws sealed; I'm VERY surprised. But rather have the adjustability any day of the week.
Anyway, my question is if the mercury sticks are an accurate measure for the 250mmHg, or how did you determine that?
I'm glad to know that increasing vacuum corrects surging. It'd be nice for the afflicted bikes to report on those findings. I'll take my bike to the mountains, which will put me close to 600 miles, and will do the oil change, synch, etc. at that time. I already did the rest (throttle play, spring relax, idle adjustment). I'll also enable the ECU for the Diagnostic mode, but hope not to touch it. I'm almost sure it'd have no effect on the surging, but definitely on off/on throttle transitions. Take care.
JC
Anyway, my question is if the mercury sticks are an accurate measure for the 250mmHg, or how did you determine that?
I'm glad to know that increasing vacuum corrects surging. It'd be nice for the afflicted bikes to report on those findings. I'll take my bike to the mountains, which will put me close to 600 miles, and will do the oil change, synch, etc. at that time. I already did the rest (throttle play, spring relax, idle adjustment). I'll also enable the ECU for the Diagnostic mode, but hope not to touch it. I'm almost sure it'd have no effect on the surging, but definitely on off/on throttle transitions. Take care.
JC
PA1195
Well-known member
Howdy my friend...used a Morgan Carbtune II ( https://www.carbtune.com/USA.htm ) to measure that...yes, I'm aware of measurement error in instruments...at some point we have to assume (bad word) that there's some reason that the measurement is a bit correct w/o proof of calibration...Morgan has been around for a long time, and I assume (there it is again-whooo!) they feel an obligation to calibrate what they sell (Bloody English you know)...beats other available data and all that.
Gary in Fairbanks 73's
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otubrab
Member
I don't know how Yamaha rep regions are divided, but if your rep. wants to have my bike for evaluation, I'd love to have them ride it. It's an 07 1300A with about 20,000miles, it has "the" problem. I'm in Monroe, WA. At this point, I just want to get to the bottom of this. It's a Yamaha problem, they've got to solve it (or lose my business).
Farkles
R.I.P. Our FJR Riding Friend
:angry2: Ok called Yamaha and they said to bring it to dealer. ? No mention of yea we know about this or we are working on this etc.
Will drop by dealer and talk with them.
Will drop by dealer and talk with them.
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TruWrecks
Still chewing thru the Restraints
Let' try to keep this on one thread.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=20661
I will keep that one updated with any news from my bike.
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=20661
I will keep that one updated with any news from my bike.
