Sliding or rolling

[IndianaTom]

My brother-in-law rides his last generation Gold wing, usually with a T shirt, a ball cap, and maybe denim shorts if he's feeling dangerous. When we ride together, i make a comment about me and ATGATT etc. He really is a low and slow rider, so he'll probably never low side, even with sand and gravel.

He's been planning a trip with his wife from Indiana to the grand bank in North Carolina, and he decided to get a coat with some armor in it. I didn't see the coat, but i think it's a mesh. He told me that the guy at the coat sales place said it's better to slide than to roll. I think that is probably true if you have a half an inch of leather on ya, and I'm sure it's better to roll if your in a T shirt. Meshes? I'm guessing roll.

One thing I DO know, don't put your hands out to stop you, gloves or not.

So my discussion with him leads me to this question:

Slide, or roll, which is better for what material?

 

[TheAxeman]

I have always assumed slide is better no matter what material you are wearing because once you begin to tumble you start breaking bones. I hope never to have to make that decision. (Is it even a decision?)

 

[wheatonFJR]

You usually have no input as to sliding or rolling...speed and coeefficient of friction already made those choices for you in advance.

Therefore, buy good enough gear...

 

[IndianaTom]

You usually have no input as to sliding or rolling...speed and coeefficient of friction already made those choices for you in advance.
Therefore, buy good enough gear...

Yea, that's kinda what I thought, but one day I met up with a hayabusa rider at a burger joint. we were chatting a bit about one thing then the other when we mentioned crashing. I said "If i find my self sliding on my back, I hope I'm sliding head first, otherwise I"ll get a rash up my back because my jacket doesnt attach to my pants"

He said, "Take it from a guy that's been in plenty of crashes, you're better to roll, cause that asphalt burns thru everything"

I don't know that I'd have the wherewithal, or the ability to control slide vs roll, but sometimes I surprise myself if I stumble while running. I roll like a Ninja! All those years of watching Bruce Lee movies may have paid off

 

[antvq]

I would assume it's not a conscious decision. If you low side you will probably slide. Conversely if you high side, you would probably tumble. I've done both with the results I already mentioned. Plus anecdotal evidence shows them to be true (Watch the Moto GP guys crash and see what happens to them).

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I agree with Wheaton. However, there are crashing techniques that we should think about from time to time so that we remember them in a crash. I know there are some road racers on this board, and I'd love to hear from them on this one. It would seem that if you have good armor a slide or roll will do just fine and I have seen racers do both. When they hit the sand, the are going to roll since they dig in. When they roll, they go into a semi-fetal postition. This limits the flailing limbs and reduces how high you'll bounce is what I've heard...but those that know, chime in!

 

[keithaba]

I'd rather slide with gear on than roll with gear on. I slid when I went down and tucked into fetal position, but I've had a lot of practice tucking in when being thrown as I have done Ju-Jutsu for many years, and we learn to take falls and control your body while being flung in the air.

Sara posted and tried to stand up while sliding, hence her nasty road rash on her knee and small spot on her hand where the glove ripped.

The guy that crashed after us rolled, he definately faired worse than either of us. He still got plenty of road rash even though he rolled. I can't beleive he didn't break anything, but I'm pretty sure he had some bruised ribs and pulled muscles.

 

[FJRMGM]

wrong - "so he'll probably never low side, even with sand and gravel."

 

[Knifemaker]

Crashes on racetracks are a bit diffrent than ones on the street. Racers do not have to worry about tall curbs, trees, and oncoming cars. When you fall , you are better off sliding , as that heat your body gets subjected to is due to friction, and that friction tends to slow you down faster than rolling or tumbling. And sliding feet first is better than head first..I'd rather my feet hit the lightpost than my head , even if I loose more skin off my back.

This all also depends on how fast you are going, but if you are going fast enough to burn through a decent mesh jacket and start grinding off skin, thats still better than tumbing at that speed and breaking off body parts (like your neck)

My racing career was not without a few spills, and I have seen first hand a number of crashes. All the ones that involved the rider sliding to a stop were the ones they got up and walked away from. On the street you want the crash and spill to be over quickly, and you want to be able to not only see dangers approaching but be able to scramble out of their way as quickly as possible...this you can only do if you slide.

And yes , you might not have much choice here in a crash, but if you find yourself sliding, don't try tucking into the fetal position, you are just removing surface area from your slide..and the more of you touching the road , the faster you will stop.

KM

 

[Bike Effects]

It's not a choice. You have to prepare for the worst.

 

[wheatonFJR]

@knifemaker- acknowledging the lightning speed that accident events happen, including the shock from what happens when shit goes wrong in a hurry...I would try to concentrate on "going fetal" to minimize broken bones/rolling unless you saw likely death in the form of a cliff/chasm/tree/guardrail/immovable object up ahead such that broken bones are a secondary concern.

 

[cougar8000]

Personal and observations comment.

You can start sliding and it can turn into a violent roll really fast. It generally do not go other way. Reason for that is if you are sliding on your back and try to stand up thinking you have stopped, you will start rolling and flying. Racers say, when you think you have stopped count to 10 because chances are you are still sliding.

I personally will take a slide any day over the roll. When you are rolling you are hitting the ground and every impact can be a bone crasher. When I low sided on the track at ~65 mph I ended up on my belly sliding feet first and watching riders who were behind me passing right in front of me. Sliding on the track is really peaceful until you hit the dirt.

As far fetus position goes. According to everything that I read and heard you got to get loose. Supposedly less chances to break stuff. I rather not find out.

regardless of how you desmount you better be ATGATT.

 

[keithaba]

Crashes on racetracks are a bit diffrent than ones on the street. Racers do not have to worry about tall curbs, trees, and oncoming cars. When you fall , you are better off sliding , as that heat your body gets subjected to is due to friction, and that friction tends to slow you down faster than rolling or tumbling. And sliding feet first is better than head first..I'd rather my feet hit the lightpost than my head , even if I loose more skin off my back.This all also depends on how fast you are going, but if you are going fast enough to burn through a decent mesh jacket and start grinding off skin, thats still better than tumbing at that speed and breaking off body parts (like your neck)

My racing career was not without a few spills, and I have seen first hand a number of crashes. All the ones that involved the rider sliding to a stop were the ones they got up and walked away from. On the street you want the crash and spill to be over quickly, and you want to be able to not only see dangers approaching but be able to scramble out of their way as quickly as possible...this you can only do if you slide.

And yes , you might not have much choice here in a crash, but if you find yourself sliding, don't try tucking into the fetal position, you are just removing surface area from your slide..and the more of you touching the road , the faster you will stop.

KM

I agree with everything you said but what I bolded. If you do realize your fooked, and can react, your better off bending your knees in, tucking your elbows, and pulling your chin down to your chest. This will prevent you from having your legs extended, and possibly hitting something and getting broken off or ripped off. Pulling your amrs in will prevent you from bracing your arms out to take the fall (a very common way to break an arm). It will also allow you to protect the front and sides of your ribcage. Tucking your head in will minimize impact to your neck.

Most of the time, you won't even have time to think about it before it's all over....

 

[Knifemaker]

but if you find yourself sliding, don't try tucking into the fetal position[/b KM

 


I agree with everything you said but what I bolded. If you do realize your fooked, and can react, your better off bending your knees in, tucking your elbows, and pulling your chin down to your chest. .....

 

 

 


Guess there is a diffrence of opinion on what "fetal position" is here. (hands clasped on top of chest under throat, chin touching hands, and legs pulled up so upper thighs are covering elbows)


Yes, if you are sliding (on your back) you should keep your head up off the ground, your toes pointed back towards your head so your heals don't touch down and flip you up, and your arms to your side with your hands off the ground. You can pull your knees up, but don't raise them higher than eye level...the problem here is keeping your feet from touching, and raising your knees makes this more difficult. It is easier to let your legs contact the road and hold your feet up.

 


I watched a guy loose it going down the straighaway at about 100mph on a CBX. No one was sure what happend, but in a blink of an eye the bike was sliding/flipping down the tarmac and the rider was on his back sliding feet first right behind it. He actualy kept himself from spinning by using his arms as outriggers - pressing down on the asphalt with his right forearm to stop a counter clockwise spin. The bike crashed into the haybails on the run off and the rider stopped just before the first turn. He was fine, and his leathers did not look as bad as one would have imagined.

 


KM

 

[Scab]

I've done both. They both hurt like hell.

 

[odot]

Whatever happened to "tuck, duck and roll"?

 

[Bustanut joker]

That kind of Music went out in the fifty's, ya hep kat.

:jester:

 

[Wicked Webby]

Slide slide slide slide....

Don't try to roll... Rolling often results in bones snapping... And broken backs, necks.....ect ect.

When sliding, usually the chance of breaking your back, neck is during the initial hit to the ground..

The direct impact to the spinal cord. Thus, have a good crash jacket with a spinal cord protector

is a no brainer(speaking of brains.. good helmet is a must). I use to typically try to stretch out,

relax(I know it sounds weird), and slide into a open area with no fixed objects. YES.. even tracks

have fixed objects that can kill ya.. SO CRASH CAREFULLY MY FRIENDS. It is not the slide that

will kill ya it is the sudden stops against them fixed objects that wreck your day.

WW

 

[wheatonFJR]

...of course I will do my best to avoid any and all of these sliding techniques by trying to stay riding with the rubber side down.

If it can be achieved...this is the most effective way to avoid abrasions/bone breakings...