So Thats What Was Wrong? Embarrassing Revelations

[101stpathfinder]

Always too busy to do my own maintenance (Least that was my excuse) Drop the bike off and pay the serious cash for anything besides fluid changes and simple farkling procedures...

Until recently that is. My frustration has been building with relying on others (Especially the local Yamaha Dealership) to do anything I felt would be too tech or too time consuming for me

to do. I had a flat tire on a return trip from Iowa, which I plugged and returned back to Florida with. The rear tire had only 15k on it and was good for another 3k (At least)

I made a ride to Daytona and on the return ride home to WPB the tire went flat again. I noticed a "Mushy" feeling and pulled into a rest stop that was only 1.5 miles further down the road.

When I checked the tire it was 8 lbs PSI and soft/hot. The tire had spit its sticky string.(A first for me) I stuck another string in and rode the remain 160 miles home. The bike began to develope

a wobble on the way home. I parked the bike and started riding my Dakar. (I have only bikes now) The '05 FJR sat until curiosity won the day and I decided to try swapping an used tire I

had sitting around. I had never even removed a rear tire from the bike. After purchasing the needed tools, I consulted FJRTECH and performed the swap.

Here are some pics:

The original hole (Plugged)

The damaged Plys inside that caused the wobble (No noticeable damage on outside of tire)

Now when I went to reassemble the tire on the bike, I reversed the procedure. When I got the spacer/washer installed AS I DISASSEMBLED IT, the washer seemed "Misplaced". I consulted

the instructions... I found the washer WAS misplaced. It had been placed between the spacer and the caliper! I pulled the axel and put it where it belonged. Now I am wondering just how long

it had been reversed? I have gone through 2 sets of brakes in the last year, which I thought was due to the IBR and the Haul Rd. Now I am wondering if the washer was misplaced and then

reinstalled incorrectly each time after? I guess I will be taking the time to do the work myself from here on out. The procedure was embarrassingly easy.

Now I have learned some things:

Spooning isn't always fun

Never ride on a flat (Even 2 miles)

Doing your own maintenance is cool (If you have the time)

5 gallon buckets don't make the best tire work stands

Tools, tools, and more tools are needed

Oh, most importantly... a big thanks to the guys that have done the work on the "How to(s)"

 

[Queensland Ken]

PR2's

I have never seen any tyre carcass go like that, however I did have a Shinko de-laminate.

Wonder if it was heat build up running with low pressures ?

Kind of feels good to work on ones' bike

 

[bluesdog]

...gone through 2 sets of brakes in the last year, which I thought was due to the IBR and the Haul Rd. Now I am wondering if the washer was misplaced and then reinstalled incorrectly each time after?

Oh, yes. You'd have to be seriously heavy on that rear brake to go through 2 sets of pads in a season. Did one side wear a lot more than the other?

 

[101stpathfinder]

...gone through 2 sets of brakes in the last year, which I thought was due to the IBR and the Haul Rd. Now I am wondering if the washer was misplaced and then reinstalled incorrectly each time after?

Oh, yes. You'd have to be seriously heavy on that rear brake to go through 2 sets of pads in a season. Did one side wear a lot more than the other?

Yes, I should have known the wear was not normal. During the 3rd leg of the IBR I had no rear brakes at all. I thought that perhaps I was toeing the pedal during travel due to nerves - or something.

Tried lowering the brake position... totally befuddled, since I went into the IBR with recently replaced pads.

This self maintenance will be a learning experience, but I am less than 5 years from retirement so now is a great time to expand.

 

[builderwill]

So.... this tire had 15K on it!

I'm simply amazed at differences in life spans. My PR2's look worse at 3.5 -4K, and that is with no passenger and usually empty or no luggage. I can understand getting double mileage, but 3 or 4 times the mileage boggles me!

 

[Fred W]

Hi Tony,

Couple of things:

First off, the carcass damage to that PR2 is to be expected when you run the tire with that low of a pressure for more than a few feet. Overheating a tire is the primary way to have a true "blow out." Usually the pressure loss is precipitated by a puncture or, like in your case, a failed repair. It is one reason that some folks won't ride far on a plugged tire. They can fail again, and the results can be less than spectacular.

Second, welcome to the world of DIY, and all of the advantage that come with it. Getting your bike reassembled with the parts in the correct sequence is strictly a matter of paying attention and being thorough.

That said, having the washer in the wrong place would merely bias the caliper carrier outboard a few mm. Since the caliper itself floats on the greased slide pins in the carrier (purple parts in diagram below), having the washer in the wrong place should not have caused your brake pads to drag and wear out prematurely. The things that will make them drag and/or wear out quickly are:

Caliper piston dirty and not retracting when released.

Slots in the carrier that the pads slide in dirty and not allowing the pads to slide right

Rear Brake pedal pivot not allowing brake pedal to release fully (very common if not greased regularly)

Caliper slide pins not lubed and moving smoothly

Crappy aftermarket brake pads

I would go ahead and remove the rear brake caliper and carrier again and do a full clean-up and maintenance just to be sure.

With the caliper in your hand and the pads removed, pump the brake pedal a couple of times to push out the pistons further than they've been riding at to reveal (hopefully) clean piston surface. Clean all the brake dust and road spooge that you can see on the piston, shown colored red above. Yours will still be partly inside the caliper bore. You can spin the piston inside the caliper to get at the dirt on back side. I do it with a pair of external C-clip piers (without the bits installed). Just stick the ends inside the piston and squeeze them to grasp the inner surface of the piston and then twist.

When you are happy with how clean they are you can push the piston back in by hand or else use a C-clamp and an old brake pad or other piece of metal over the end of the piston. To check that they are retracting correctly you can depress the brake pedal slightly until you just barely see the piston start to move out of the bore. When you release the pedal you should see the piston retract ever so slightly due to the actions of the rubber seals grabbing the piston's smooth surface. If they do not retract at all, you will end up with brake pads dragging as you ride down the road.

The stainless steel glides, #9 (called "pad supports" in the fiche, there are two of them), shaded green above, are what the pads slide in and out along, need a thorough cleaning too. They will pop off the carrier so you can clean the carrier surface behind them too, as sometimes you get crap built up behind the stainless glides that causes the clearance to the ends of the pads to be insufficient. Also check the contact points on the ends of of the brake pads themselves to make sure no dirt or corrosion is causing them to bind.

Finally, check that those slide pins are clean and smooth, and well greased so the caliper body is freely floating on the carrier when you reassemble.

 

[Auburn]

PR2'sI have never seen any tyre carcass go like that, however I did have a Shinko de-laminate.

Wonder if it was heat build up running with low pressures ?

Kind of feels good to work on ones' bike

I mile and a half at 8 PSI and a previous flat on the same tire had a lot to do with the delamination. I have seen a couple that had similar damage.

Most recently Panman had one that he rode fro several miles at highway plus speeds towing his trailer with the back end feeling squishy which he thought was the trailer until he stopped. He plugged the tire and rode home from Montana. Brought it down to the tech meet this fall. We pulled the tire because I had a take off that we could replace the tire with. Found similar damage inside his tire.

Definitely from over heating the tire from running at too low a pressure, really does a number on the sidewalls.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Thanks for posting up this thread. I take away from this a new realization of the possible damage that can occur from riding on a very low pressure tire.

Point taken.

Also, that guys here on the forums are very willing to help someone that wants to help themselves and learn something about about DIY'ing.

 

[Bounce]

Some folks have gotten ragged on for harping about watching tire pressure closely... like every morning before every ride and being OCD about even a couple of PSI off.

It might not be quite that critical but if you do obsess over them like that, then the risk of these things happening are greatly reduced. That's a very good thing when you're in the middle of BFE at 3am.

Thanks for posting up to the thread as it's been the best visual on the topic I've seen in a very long time.

 

[Fred W]

Some folks have gotten ragged on for harping about watching tire pressure closely... like every morning before every ride and being OCD about even a couple of PSI off.

Really? That's pretty strange.

I honestly can't imagine any good reason for not checking tire pressure before every ride, unless you happen to be lucky enough to have a TPMS installed. Just one or two psi low and your tires will heat more and wear faster. And of course this thread is a great example of what can happen in the extreme cases. If that is OCD, put me down for a case of it.

 

[Bounce]

I thought it was strange, too. But I've seen folks who insist they only check weekly or monthly and seem to disregard variances that amount to 20 to 25 percent of the target PSI. Some of these cases were on bikes that are typically heavy, overloaded, and often pulling trailers...

2 guesses and any that don't say "Gold Wing" don't count.

 

[Fred W]

Oh, thank goodness.

I thought you were going to say that it was someone with enough good sense to ride an FJR that was taking that position.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Damn!! How that got by the wizards here at the last tech weekend I'll never know..

Then again everyting is put back together the same way it came apart. Something to be said for having too much experiance, I mean if it was a first time thing we'd have checked tech onfo.

At least you weren't like Mike and had a totaled inner bearing and chewed up sleve. That was a real hoot fixing!

 

[FJRay]

I thought it was strange, too. But I've seen folks who insist they only check weekly or monthly and seem to disregard variances that amount to 20 to 25 percent of the target PSI. Some of these cases were on bikes that are typically heavy, overloaded, and often pulling trailers...
2 guesses and any that don't say "Gold Wing" don't count.

In my shop thw two Worst offenders for low tire pressure are Harley baggers and Goldwings. People just look at them and assume there is enough air cause they are to lazy to get down on the floor and check. That is a big reason why tpms systems are mandatory on cars and light trucks. Drivers are not smart enough to operate a tire guage so they need a light to remind they if they happen to see it between texts and eating.

 

[Old Guy]

I thought it was strange, too. But I've seen folks who insist they only check weekly or monthly and seem to disregard variances that amount to 20 to 25 percent of the target PSI. Some of these cases were on bikes that are typically heavy, overloaded, and often pulling trailers...
2 guesses and any that don't say "Gold Wing" don't count.

In my shop thw two Worst offenders for low tire pressure are Harley baggers and Goldwings. People just look at them and assume there is enough air cause they are to lazy to get down on the floor and check. That is a big reason why tpms systems are mandatory on cars and light trucks. Drivers are not smart enough to operate a tire guage so they need a light to remind they if they happen to see it between texts and eating.

My wife's 22-year-old nephew was here one day in his truck, and she commented that one of his tires looked low. I handed him a pencil-type gauge, and he didn't know how to use it. I had to show him how to check the tire and add air. I've come to realize that's not that unusual.

 

[ionbeam]

I thought it was strange, too. But I've seen folks who insist they only check weekly or monthly and seem to disregard variances that amount to 20 to 25 percent of the target PSI. Some of these cases were on bikes that are typically heavy, overloaded, and often pulling trailers...

2 guesses and any that don't say "Gold Wing" don't count.

In my shop thw two Worst offenders for low tire pressure are Harley baggers and Goldwings. People just look at them and assume there is enough air cause they are to lazy to get down on the floor and check. That is a big reason why tpms systems are mandatory on cars and light trucks. Drivers are not smart enough to operate a tire guage so they need a light to remind they if they happen to see it between texts and eating.

My wife's 22-year-old nephew was here one day in his truck, and she commented that one of his tires looked low. I handed him a pencil-type gauge, and he didn't know how to use it. I had to show him how to check the tire and add air. I've come to realize that's not that unusual.

<olden days>

Your car had a breaker point ignition that needed constant service. Spark plugs needed constant service. Your exhaust system rotted quickly. At every tuneup there was a chart of 17 to 32 chassis and drive train zerks that HAD to be hit. You could expect your universal joints to fail. Your fuel pump would either die or leak. The pivots of the carb would wear and become dastardly difficult to diagnose when it's leaking air past the worn bushings. The tube type tires had a short miserable life while providing poor handling and long braking distances. The drum brakes were never quite the same after the first service. The king-pin and ball joint suspensions were constant service points. The generator often had to be polarized when a new one was installed. As the vehicle aged the steering system became a loose approximate pointing system. The vehicle was considered to be unreliable and near scrap point at 50k miles. There was a garage at every gas station because there had to be that many service centers. Almost all drivers were attuned to their vehicles needs because they had to be. Driving was an actual driving experience because there was basically just you and your car plus a crappy little AM radio to distract you. People attended their cars and the gas stations attended their cars on a regular basis.

</olden days>

<modern days>

You get into your low mileage (100k miles) vehicle. You make a phone call, adjust the entertainment system, check the GPS and while replying to a text start the engine. In between phone calls you can crank the 1,500 watt, 16 speaker entertainment system loud enough to isolate you from both the ambient traffic noise and isolate you from your driving. An accidental scan of the dash shows no warning lights and no warning messages so everything must be OK. You last had vehicle service 50k miles ago and the car passed inspection so it must be OK. Drivers are used to not being able to check the FI system, can't check the electronic ignition system, can't check the ABS system or the ECU and become complacent. Where would I put a tire gauge? Like duh! I need my cell phone, charger, MP3 player, tablet and charger long before I need a gauge or snow scraper. Tuned out, turned off and zero situational awareness. If something isn't telling me it broken, it's not broken. I mean, if it is supposed to be checked wouldn't it tell me? You mean, like, I'm supposed kneel on the ground and touch that grody wheel?

<there is no end to the modern days>

Being desensitized to highly complex systems, without tools or interest leads many people to ignore basic checks.

 

[Old Guy]

Yeah. That's it.

 

[101stpathfinder]

So.... this tire had 15K on it!

I'm simply amazed at differences in life spans. My PR2's look worse at 3.5 -4K, and that is with no passenger and usually empty or no luggage. I can understand getting double mileage, but 3 or 4 times the mileage boggles me!

This tire rode to Key West, then completed the 4 corners with a trans Canada Gold on the northern leg. AND has been on the bike since that September run.

PR2 "B" spec rears = 18k / Fronts around 25k... but then I ride slow with very few twisties along the way.

Fred thanks for the info! In the IBR I took a short cut to Gerlach, NV on a trail called "Wild ***". I did not back off too much with my speeds (A lot of dust...) Also pikes Peak and a sensitive setting (Zoomed)

on my GPS had the braking maximized to say the least. I will make sure it gets done soon. I have got 3 bikes all screaming for attention as I type.

 

[FJRay]

I thought it was strange, too. But I've seen folks who insist they only check weekly or monthly and seem to disregard variances that amount to 20 to 25 percent of the target PSI. Some of these cases were on bikes that are typically heavy, overloaded, and often pulling trailers...

2 guesses and any that don't say "Gold Wing" don't count.

In my shop thw two Worst offenders for low tire pressure are Harley baggers and Goldwings. People just look at them and assume there is enough air cause they are to lazy to get down on the floor and check. That is a big reason why tpms systems are mandatory on cars and light trucks. Drivers are not smart enough to operate a tire guage so they need a light to remind they if they happen to see it between texts and eating.

My wife's 22-year-old nephew was here one day in his truck, and she commented that one of his tires looked low. I handed him a pencil-type gauge, and he didn't know how to use it. I had to show him how to check the tire and add air. I've come to realize that's not that unusual.

<olden days>

Your car had a breaker point ignition that needed constant service. Spark plugs needed constant service. Your exhaust system rotted quickly. At every tuneup there was a chart of 17 to 32 chassis and drive train zerks that HAD to be hit. You could expect your universal joints to fail. Your fuel pump would either die or leak. The pivots of the carb would wear and become dastardly difficult to diagnose when it's leaking air past the worn bushings. The tube type tires had a short miserable life while providing poor handling and long braking distances. The drum brakes were never quite the same after the first service. The king-pin and ball joint suspensions were constant service points. The generator often had to be polarized when a new one was installed. As the vehicle aged the steering system became a loose approximate pointing system. The vehicle was considered to be unreliable and near scrap point at 50k miles. There was a garage at every gas station because there had to be that many service centers. Almost all drivers were attuned to their vehicles needs because they had to be. Driving was an actual driving experience because there was basically just you and your car plus a crappy little AM radio to distract you. People attended their cars and the gas stations attended their cars on a regular basis.

</olden days>

<modern days>

You get your low mileage (100k miles) vehicle. You make a phone call, adjust the entertainment system, check the GPS and while replying to a text start the engine. In between phone calls you can crank the 1,500 watt, 16 speaker entertainment system loud enough to isolate you from both the ambient traffic noise and isolate you from your driving. An accidental scan of the dash shows no warning lights and no warning messages so everything must be OK. You last had vehicle service 50k miles ago and the car passed inspection so it must be OK. Drivers are used to not being able to check the FI system, can't check the electronic ignition system, can't check the ABS system or the ECU and become complacent. Where would I put a tire gauge? Like duh! I need my cell phone, charger, MP3 player, tablet and charger long before I need a gauge or snow scraper. Tuned out, turned off and zero situational awareness. If something isn't telling me it broken, it's not broken. I mean, if it is supposed to be checked wouldn't it tell me? You mean, like, I'm supposed kneel on the ground and touch that grody wheel?

<there is no end to the modern days>

Being desensitized to highly complex systems, without tools or interest leads many people to ignore basic checks.

Love the old stuff. My two personal drivers are a 55 ford truck with original straight axle and king pins and drum brakes. the other one is a 48 Ford coupe that my dad bought new and is an unrestored driver right down to the 6 volt positive ground electrics. Both have tire guages on board and they get used.