So What is Up with the CBRxx?

[dcarver]

So.. tell me what is the fatal attraction is to the BB from *gasp* Honda? I've been a Yamaha guy from the 70's... AT1, CT1, DT1, XS1100, YZ426, that stupid 650,.... etc.. I currently own BMW's, Cagivas, Harleys, ATK's... so I understand the 'one brand does this best' concept.. so what makes the XX so valuable in this forum? Give me real freakin' reasons.. hp-to-weight, handling, execution, ease of maintenance, agility, etc.. Compare it to my best ride, currently, an FJR 06A model... Don't read this as a challenge... just a real desire to find the facts.. Was/Is the BB a really competent, excellent handling, superb braking, awesome bike that exceeded it's time period? Is it still competitive today? Some would say the KZ1300 is the ultimate bike for smoothness, power, handling, and LD touring. Or another old bike that certain fanatics love to say were the 'Good Ol' Days' while in reality the newer steeds are superior?

Once again... I'm not wanting a flame war.. just searching for the reality of it all and a better understanding.. and...... I want to ride this bad ass BlackBird.. just to see for myself...

 

[exskibum]

Depends upon what you want it to do as to whether it's still competitive. It's not competitive with any of the liter sport bikes for sheer twisties blistering, but it's not going to get left behind. If you think the FJR is fast, you'll really be impressed by how quickly you get to 130 on an XX, and it isn't even close to being done at that point: it's just winding up. For me, I like Sport - Touring bikes. The FJR is on the Touring end of that spectrum and the XX is on the Sport end. I have a 2005 FJR and a 2003 XX, but also owned a 1997 XX.

Biggest attractions: incredibly smooth (close to vibration free due to superior counter balancer execution), extremely dependable (overbuilt bottom end and long reported valve clearance adjustment intervals), excellent fit and finish, LOTS of power (137 or 138 RWHP stock -- guessing I may be close to 145 with 4-2-1 header, lighter custom wheels and PCIII. Biggest weakness is the OEM suspension. I've got a Traxxion AK-20 suspension kit and a Superbrace up front and a Penske in the rear, plus Pilot Powers, and it really handles well for a 525 lb. package. The brakes are a linked system, but one of the better linked systems and are very good for non-ABS brakes. (Serious advice: it gets to speed so fast that a new owner stepping up from a lesser powered bike can be surprised that he or she is so quickly going 20 mph faster than expected, and no brakes will really make up for that error in judgment.) It's much more agile than the FJR in the twisties, will easily out-accelerate it, and is just generally sportier, though it is not going to beat a ZX-14 or a Busa in power or keep up with pure sport bikes in twisties with equal riders. :assassin:

It's roughly 555 lbs wet in stock trim, but I've trimmed maybe 28 to 30 lbs off mine. The FJR is roughly a hundred lbs heavier. It's not as good a long distance bike as the FJR, which has more upright ergos and lower pegs. If you're going to go a distance and ride twisties when you get there or on the way, however, it beats the FJR in that game (the FJR with upgraded suspension is still a great compromise for that), while a true sport bike would be misery for me after a couple hundred miles, not to mention its too small tank (FJR and XX have roughly same tank volume and range). In addition to being the better long distance bike, the FJR is a better two up bike, and maybe a better cruising/around town bike. But in the mountains solo . . . it's the XX all the way. If you happen to be one of those haters always bashing Harleys and getting a kick out of going by them as a blur, there again . . . the XX is the better tool.

They haven't imported them to the US since 2003, but they are still making them for other parts of the world. For many of us, it's an attractive styling, certainly better than the ugly Busa, and a lot more unique or rare. Most of all, they can actually be had for a decent price, and their insurance rates are not going to be as high as a liter-bike, Busa or ZX-14 -- generally a great deal for a really solid GT motorcycle. To each his own, though. I love mine and think it's the perfect complement to the FJR.

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

Thanks for posting the question as I have wondered the same thing, after listening to Warchild and others. And thanks for the initial response. Sounds like another good compromise bike without enough support to continue in the States. Shame since IMHO, too many bikes are specialized in todays market.

But why a good complement to the FJR? Not flaming, just curious. I was thinking that down the road I would like another bike beside my FJR in the garage, and bouncing between a KTM Adventure/GS1200 (for the logging roads around here or a trip into Canada/Alaska), or a classic for fun Sunday rides with my cruiser buddies (Riding the FJR with them is just too frustrating), or maybe a used 600 or liter sportbike for 50 miles in the backroads some afternoons. Why would a Blackbird be something I should consider? Again, just asking........

 

[dcarver]

For me, I like Sport - Touring bikes. The FJR is on the Touring end of that spectrum and the XX is on the Sport end.

Ahh..got it now..Thanks Rich.. It's a variation on the sport touring theme with accents on the sport. Sure makes a feller wonder what could be done with modern technology.. while keeping the focus on the sport side..

 

[exskibum]

But why a good complement to the FJR? Not flaming, just curious. I was thinking that down the road I would like another bike beside my FJR in the garage, and bouncing between a KTM Adventure/GS1200 (for the logging roads around here or a trip into Canada/Alaska), or a classic for fun Sunday rides with my cruiser buddies (Riding the FJR with them is just too frustrating), or maybe a used 600 or liter sportbike for 50 miles in the backroads some afternoons. Why would a Blackbird be something I should consider? Again, just asking........

Well, maybe an XX isn't the best complement for your FJR, given where you live, what there is to ride there and what kinds of riding you're equipping yourself for (you DO already have a fine sport touring bike, after all). It's impossible for me to argue against something like the GS or KTM Adventure (hell, I want one). I would love to have a dirt road bike here, don't want an all the way dirt bike, but also need to be able to get all my bikes and the car in both the garage and my budget. We're awfully spoiled with modern motorcycle technology.

For ME, where I live and the roads I like to ride, the XX is the perfect complement to the FJR. That's because it's more on the sport end of the spectrum of riding that I do, and the wealth of incredibly good twisty Sierra mountain roads close to me (as well as the roads a couple hundred miles from me in the Trinities of northwest California). A sport bike would just get me more tickets, since I think I'd always feel obliged to ride it for what it is: a pure bred road rocket (not that the XX can't get me performance awards for the same kind of urges). Moreover, a sport bike is just too uncomfortable and cramped for long distances to want to take it across the state with soft luggage for a weekend foray into twisty heaven like Hwy 36 and its surrounding roadways.

The XX allows me to exercise the sport end of the sport touring spectrum with lots of carving thrills on the roads I ride the most: Sierra mountain passes. I take the FJR if I'm taking the GF along, or if I'm going a considerable distance. I had a '97 XX before I got the FJR, and thought I'd sell it when I got the FJR, which has been my idea of the best of all compromises in a road bike. But I just couldn't part with the XX -- too much fun for what I could get for it. Then I started down Warchild's path to Group Buy sin and decided I was about to put too much money into a '97 when I spotted my '03 sitting on a dealer floor, ignominiously traded in for a Harley, with under 3000 miles on it and inch wide chicken strips. Bought it, farkled it and sold the '97.

 

[Toecutter]

ignominiously...

Wow, now THERE'S a word. I had to go look it up.
I've been lusting after the GS lately. Might get a chance to ride one soon.

 

[scubatech]

Hey Toe, I just rode 1100 miles on a GS in the Alps. It was a fabulous machine. It was at least as comfy as the FJR, (also wife's opinnion),surpriseingly powerful, awesome lean angles. I wish i could add one! Check out micapeak.com. Go to the new R1200GS forum. These things are every remote area on earth!

 

[Warchild]

I want to ride this bad ass BlackBird.. just to see for myself...

It's an inspirational machine on several levels... see?

 

[Cyclenut]

Stop rubbing it in guys. The XX, the best bike I never got..........yet.

 

[Centerline]

Thanks for posting the question as I have wondered the same thing, after listening to Warchild and others. And thanks for the initial response. Sounds like another good compromise bike without enough support to continue in the States. Shame since IMHO, too many bikes are specialized in todays market.
But why a good complement to the FJR? Not flaming, just curious. I was thinking that down the road I would like another bike beside my FJR in the garage, and bouncing between a KTM Adventure/GS1200 (for the logging roads around here or a trip into Canada/Alaska), or a classic for fun Sunday rides with my cruiser buddies (Riding the FJR with them is just too frustrating), or maybe a used 600 or liter sportbike for 50 miles in the backroads some afternoons. Why would a Blackbird be something I should consider? Again, just asking........

Have just purchased a KTM 950 Adventure, replacing my 05 FJR with it. What a smile inducing beast. Super comfortable, for me, with just slightly less wind protection than the FJR. Just fine for LD travel for me, tho a little less range than the FJR. The KTM accelerates just as hard or harder than the FJR to probably 80 mph. Might be ahead in a 1/8 mile drag race, but not in a 1/4 mile race. The FJR will not even be in the same county in the cornering department, and for off road NOTHING in the dual sport big bike regime is going to touch a 950.

 

[dcarver]

Thanks for posting the question as I have wondered the same thing, after listening to Warchild and others. And thanks for the initial response. Sounds like another good compromise bike without enough support to continue in the States. Shame since IMHO, too many bikes are specialized in todays market.

But why a good complement to the FJR? Not flaming, just curious. I was thinking that down the road I would like another bike beside my FJR in the garage, and bouncing between a KTM Adventure/GS1200 (for the logging roads around here or a trip into Canada/Alaska), or a classic for fun Sunday rides with my cruiser buddies (Riding the FJR with them is just too frustrating), or maybe a used 600 or liter sportbike for 50 miles in the backroads some afternoons. Why would a Blackbird be something I should consider? Again, just asking........

Have just purchased a KTM 950 Adventure, replacing my 05 FJR with it. What a smile inducing beast. Super comfortable, for me, with just slightly less wind protection than the FJR. Just fine for LD travel for me, tho a little less range than the FJR. The KTM accelerates just as hard or harder than the FJR to probably 80 mph. Might be ahead in a 1/8 mile drag race, but not in a 1/4 mile race. The FJR will not even be in the same county in the cornering department, and for off road NOTHING in the dual sport big bike regime is going to touch a 950.

EDIT - my reply had nothing to do with this original thread and so it is deleted.. althought it was a good snappy response...

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Thanks for posting the question as I have wondered the same thing, after listening to Warchild and others. And thanks for the initial response. Sounds like another good compromise bike without enough support to continue in the States. Shame since IMHO, too many bikes are specialized in todays market.

But why a good complement to the FJR? Not flaming, just curious. I was thinking that down the road I would like another bike beside my FJR in the garage, and bouncing between a KTM Adventure/GS1200 (for the logging roads around here or a trip into Canada/Alaska), or a classic for fun Sunday rides with my cruiser buddies (Riding the FJR with them is just too frustrating), or maybe a used 600 or liter sportbike for 50 miles in the backroads some afternoons. Why would a Blackbird be something I should consider? Again, just asking........

Have just purchased a KTM 950 Adventure, replacing my 05 FJR with it. What a smile inducing beast. Super comfortable, for me, with just slightly less wind protection than the FJR. Just fine for LD travel for me, tho a little less range than the FJR. The KTM accelerates just as hard or harder than the FJR to probably 80 mph. Might be ahead in a 1/8 mile drag race, but not in a 1/4 mile race. The FJR will not even be in the same county in the cornering department, and for off road NOTHING in the dual sport big bike regime is going to touch a 950.

EDIT - my reply had nothing to do with this original thread and so it is deleted.. althought it was a good snappy response...

The CBR xx is a good bike to go with the FJR. It's faster, handles better and is clearly a solo machine. Not everyone likes the dirt, but would like a faster, better handling bike that's still comfortable on long distances. My other bike is an enduro :lol:

 

[Bikewhore]

I had a 1998 that I owned for 5 weeks or 4000 miles. I loved it. Mine had a serious engine counter balancer problem that caused to to get really vibey around 7k. Bugger too. That's when the power started coming on boil. It was very comfy and to me, an awesome bike. I'd still have it if it wasn't looking to be a problem child. I traded it back in on the FJR. I got a solid 200miles per tank. Mine was carbed and didn't have that silly digi speedo. I like gauges with needles and faces.

To me, you can't find a better used bike for less than 5k.

Here's mine just prior to take off for a weekend trip through rural PA.

 

[Tropical Bird]

I had a 2005 XX for 12 months. Great bike.

They are on special here in Oz. Indeed, my XX is still at the dealer, 11 months after trade in...

No one wants it, and it is perfect condition...

The special pricing on XX'ers has depressed the used market significantly.

 

[exskibum]

I had a 1998
****

Mine was carbed and didn't have that silly digi speedo. I like gauges with needles and faces.

I've owned a 1997 with the same instrument cluster as your 1998 and a 2003 with the digital cluster.

IMO, the '03 cluster is far superior to the all analog cluster of the '97 to '00 models (and even to the FJR's cluster). Here's why:

Like you, I mostly don't like digital speedos or Tachs. In fact, I have NEVER seen a digital tach I like, but the tach on the '03 XX is the same analog needle gauge as on your '98 (just placed in a better position). The kind of digital speedos I can't stand are like my ex had on a Nissan 300ZX -- too much display, and the displayed number was changing too much. On the '03 XX, it's a big digital LED number display over on the right side, is buffered sufficiently so it isn't jumping all over, and it's the easiest one glance display of speed I've seen on any vehicle I've ridden or owned. By contrast, the analog speedo on the '97 - '00 XXs had numbers that were too small -- the result of a range from 0 to 220 mph or so -- much harder to read, and I don't like to have to do anything more than glance to get the info I need. The tachs on both XXs and the FJR are great -- very easy to glance and see where the engine is. But the tach on the '03 XX is perfectly located -- right square in the middle of the cluster, instead of sharing the largest part of the cluster with an equally large analog speedo, as is the case with the '97 - '00 XXs and the FJR.

I also like the '03 XX's digital water temperature readings in degrees Farenheit. The only thing I'd change about the instrument cluster on the '03 XX is to make the digital readout numbers for the trip odometer and for the clock (on the left side) bigger. Otherwise, it's the very best designed instrument cluster (for my preferences) that I've had on any vehicle.

You're absolutely right about a used XX being the best buy for under $5,000, IMO. If you watch carefully, you can even pick up a nearly new (less than 5K miles) 2002 or 2003 for under $7000. **

EDIT to add: ** For example, there's a 2002 with extras in Odessa TX with 20,000 miles on it for $5,600 right now. Contact at [email protected]

 

[Warchild]

I'll have a CBR1100XX for sale here in another couple weeks.... though it won't necessarily have low miles.

But since it's a Honda, it won't matter... the Blackbird's powerplant is overbuilt and significantly under-stressed.... there are a ton of Blackbirds both here and abroad with well, WELL over 100,000 miles on them. There are even some in Europe and Australia with well over 200K on them, and the motor has never been opened up...

Mine is barely broken in at 88K on the odo... :lol: Seriously, with the lavish maintenance care it's had all it's life, it's got a loooooong life ahead of it still.... B)

 

[exskibum]

I'll have a CBR1100XX for sale here in another couple weeks.... though it won't necessarily have low miles.
But since it's a Honda, it won't matter... the Blackbird's powerplant is overbuilt and significantly under-stressed.... there are a ton of Blackbirds both here and abroad with well, WELL over 100,000 miles on them. There are even some in Europe and Australia with well over 200K on them, and the motor has never been opened up...

Mine is barely broken in at 88K on the odo... :lol: Seriously, with the lavish maintenance care it's had all it's life, it's got a loooooong life ahead of it still.... B)

Huh?!?!?!?!

 

[Bikewhore]

I had a 1998
****

Mine was carbed and didn't have that silly digi speedo. I like gauges with needles and faces.

I've owned a 1997 with the same instrument cluster as your 1998 and a 2003 with the digital cluster.

IMO, the '03 cluster is far superior to the all analog cluster of the '97 to '99 models (and even to the FJR's cluster). Here's why:

Like you, I mostly don't like digital speedos or Tachs. In fact, I have NEVER seen a digital tach I like, but the tach on the '03 XX is the same analog needle gauge as on your '98 (just placed in a better position). The kind of digital speedos I can't stand are like my ex had on a Nissan 300ZX -- too much display, and the displayed number was changing too much. On the '03 XX, it's a big digital LED number display over on the right side, is buffered sufficiently so it isn't jumping all over, and it's the easiest one glance display of speed I've seen on any vehicle I've ridden or owned. By contrast, the analog speedo on the '97 - '99 XXs had numbers that were too small -- the result of a range from 0 to 220 mph or so -- much harder to read, and I don't like to have to do anything more than glance to get the info I need. The tachs on both XXs and the FJR are great -- very easy to glance and see where the engine is. But the tach on the '03 XX is perfectly located -- right square in the middle of the cluster, instead of sharing the largest part of the cluster with an equally large analog speedo, as is the case with the '97 - '99 XXs and the FJR.

I also like the '03 XX's digital water temperature readings in degrees Farenheit. The only thing I'd change about the instrument cluster on the '03 XX is to make the digital readout numbers for the trip odometer and for the clock (on the left side) bigger. Otherwise, it's the very best designed instrument cluster (for my preferences) that I've had on any vehicle.

You're absolutely right about a used XX being the best buy for under $5,000, IMO. If you watch carefully, you can even pick up a nearly new (less than 5K miles) 2002 or 2003 for under $7000. **

EDIT to add: ** For example, there's a 2002 with extras in Odessa TX with 20,000 miles on it for $5,600 right now. Contact at [email protected]

I never look at the speedometer anyway. The nice officer writes your speed down when he hands you a performance award. I just go off those numbers.

I can see what you are saying though. The numbers were kinda hard to read.

 

[scubatech]

I agree with you Exskibum. My red 2001 had the digital dash also and it was very legible. The first couple years it very much replicated the targeted ZX11, although much more refined!