So you say a little surveillance is good for us?

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exskibum

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Published on Thursday, December 22, 2005 by the Independent / UK

BRITAIN WILL BE FIRST COUNTRY TO MONITOR EVERY CAR JOURNEY

From 2006 Britain will be the first country where every journey by every car will be monitored

by Steve Connor

Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.

Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.

The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.

By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.

Already there are plans to extend the database by increasing the storage period to five years and by linking thousands of additional cameras so that details of up to 100 million number plates can be fed each day into the central databank.

Senior police officers have described the surveillance network as possibly the biggest advance in the technology of crime detection and prevention since the introduction of DNA fingerprinting.

But others concerned about civil liberties will be worried that the movements of millions of law-abiding people will soon be routinely recorded and kept on a central computer database for years.

The new national data centre of vehicle movements will form the basis of a sophisticated surveillance tool that lies at the heart of an operation designed to drive criminals off the road.

In the process, the data centre will provide unrivalled opportunities to gather intelligence data on the movements and associations of organised gangs and terrorist suspects whenever they use cars, vans or motorcycles.

The scheme is being orchestrated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) and has the full backing of ministers who have sanctioned the spending of £24m this year on equipment.

More than 50 local authorities have signed agreements to allow the police to convert thousands of existing traffic cameras so they can read number plates automatically. The data will then be transmitted to Hendon via a secure police communications network.

Chief constables are also on the verge of brokering agreements with the Highways Agency, supermarkets and petrol station owners to incorporate their own CCTV cameras into the network. In addition to cross-checking each number plate against stolen and suspect vehicles held on the Police National Computer, the national data centre will also check whether each vehicle is lawfully licensed, insured and has a valid MoT test certificate.

"Every time you make a car journey already, you'll be on CCTV somewhere. The difference is that, in future, the car's index plates will be read as well," said Frank Whiteley, Chief Constable of Hertfordshire and chairman of the Acpo steering committee on automatic number plate recognition (ANPR).

"What the data centre should be able to tell you is where a vehicle was in the past and where it is now, whether it was or wasn't at a particular location, and the routes taken to and from those crime scenes. Particularly important are associated vehicles," Mr Whiteley said.

The term "associated vehicles" means analysing convoys of cars, vans or trucks to see who is driving alongside a vehicle that is already known to be of interest to the police. Criminals, for instance, will drive somewhere in a lawful vehicle, steal a car and then drive back in convoy to commit further crimes "You're not necessarily interested in the stolen vehicle. You're interested in what's moving with the stolen vehicle," Mr Whiteley explained.

According to a strategy document drawn up by Acpo, the national data centre in Hendon will be at the heart of a surveillance operation that should deny criminals the use of the roads.

"The intention is to create a comprehensive ANPR camera and reader infrastructure across the country to stop displacement of crime from area to area and to allow a comprehensive picture of vehicle movements to be captured," the Acpo strategy says.

"This development forms the basis of a 24/7 vehicle movement database that will revolutionise arrest, intelligence and crime investigation opportunities on a national basis," it says.

Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.

"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."

© 2005 Independent News and Media Limited

***************

In light of what is also going on in this country in terms of warrantless surveillance by technologies as sophisticated as the NSA employs, I believe it wise for me to inform all of you that

I HAVE DISPOSED OF ALL FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION I ONCE POSSESSED!

Got a real chill from reading about where our closest ally in the GWOT has taken this, and figured I'd think ahead to the possibility that any jurisdiction I live in or may live in might ban (and require me to turn in or have confiscated) some of my possessions. I sure don't want to be hiding any of that stuff from the folks looking out for my best interests.

That is all.

 
Ummmm, been away for a while and notice the new limitation on political posts. This was really intended as a heads-up on car and motorcycle surveillance -- I think we've touched on it here before. If I read the rule correctly, political stuff directly related to motorcycling is still allowed, so mods: please don't up my "Warn" meter. Gonna be a bit hard to drag knees, speed or run from cops in Britain, among other things. Sorry if my gun comment at the end is considered too political, but I wanted the NSA to know I'm OK. ;)

 
England has been like that for a while.

They had some cameras on the roads already and they are all over the bar and club scene. CC's everywhere.

I guarantee you, if you come out of a bar all ****-faced and full of brilliant ideas, you will be caught on camera.

Shortly after, you may be approached by a funny talking man in a very large hat holding a club. :blink:

I could give you proof, but I don't have the rights to my movie.

Now they are coming out in full force I guess for the roads.

 
Seems scary to me. Nothing to stop them from requiring GPS transmitters in every vehicle in the future. That way they could just mail out a speeding ticket whenever the computer detects me exceeding.

 
Seems scary to me. Nothing to stop them from requiring GPS transmitters in every vehicle in the future. That way they could just mail out a speeding ticket whenever the computer detects me exceeding.
In some cases the technology to do this is already in place, although not via GPS. How easy would it be on toll roads to determine what your average speed was between two points? Very easy.

As you pull up to the toll booth:

"Well sir, it says here that you traveled 100 miles in just under 41 minutes, so we're gonna have to go ahead and give you this speeding ticket..."

 
Combine that with all of the speed cameras in Britain, PLUS the EU trying to pass legislation to regulate the repair of motorcycles to 'authorized' shops only, thereby banning self repair... Much suckage in the world today.

 
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Seems scary to me. Nothing to stop them from requiring GPS transmitters in every vehicle in the future. That way they could just mail out a speeding ticket whenever the computer detects me exceeding.
There is already a transmitter under development that will hide behind (or in ) the registration plate. This is to allow for automatic collection of road tolls and for insurance premiums to be calculated by usage (mileage, type of road used and time of day). This last is already on trial by Norwich Union. There is already talk of speed control via GPS.

Making the best use of the FJR while I can

Dave

 
In some cases the technology to do this is already in place, although not via GPS. How easy would it be on toll roads to determine what your average speed was between two points? Very easy.
As you pull up to the toll booth:

"Well sir, it says here that you traveled 100 miles in just under 41 minutes, so we're gonna have to go ahead and give you this speeding ticket..."
Yes. I recall stories of people getting tickets based on the time stamp on the toll tickets in years past for what seemed like very excessive speeds, loke over 100 mph. Now that speed doesn't sound so excessive to me since I got my FJR.

I resisted getting an EZ-Pass for that reason. The first year they had them in NY there were tickets handed out for speeding on the Thruway. The Thruway is our major toll road in NY.

Since I commute across a toll bridge and they require EZ-Pass to get the commuter discount on the bridges I now use EZ-Pass. :angry:

 
[sOAP BOX]

FWIW, GM has On Star which *could* let anyone track your vehicle. Auto makers are adding the equivalent to a ‘Black Box’ to the auto computers that lets them look at data taken just before an accident so they can tell speed, braking time, signals, etc. Car rental companies put a location sensor in their cars that show where you have been and at what speed you were traveling. Many newer higher end cars have tracking devices to ‘help you’. Many new cars now keep track of your driving including speed and they can characterize your driving style. Not that they would void your warranty or anything &lt;_&lt; . Since this has never been an issue in the past there are no laws regulating what can be done – since it is not illegal it will keep on going until laws are passed that restrict or stop this practice. Your cell phone can be intercepted, your cell phone can let you be tracked. Any wireless communications or wireless internet connection can be intercepted. Cities are busily installing cameras to watch the public. Let’s face it, in most city areas you can expect zero privacy when you step out your door. The police can drive by your house and use a infrared device to measure heat looking for heat that may indicate drugs being grown or made. The cable companies track the cable channels you use. The electric company knows what hours you keep. If you use a debit card or a credit card they know where you shop, they know that you spend &gt;$100/month at the liquor store and subscribe to Hustler. In a law suit your bank and credit card company can be asked for this information. They have to do this you see, it helps keep us free and allows all these agencies to serve us better. We know they always have our best interest at stake.

[/sOAP BOX]

Alan

From New Hampshire

our state issued motor vehicle license plate motto reads: LIVE FREE OR DIE

 
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"Well sir, it says here that you traveled 100 miles in just under 41 minutes, so we're gonna have to go ahead and give you this speeding ticket..."
They are a bit behind Oklahoma. I was handed a punched card on the Will Rogers Turnpike in the late 60's or early 70's when traveling from Texas to Ohio before all the fancy new interstate highways were built. When I got to the other end I handed it to a very nice man who walked into his toll booth with it, returned in about 30 seconds and said, "Do you want to stick around and chat a while, or would you like me to run the card through the machine now?" I asked why. He said "If I run it through right now, you will be receiving a ticket for averaging 92 mph across the turnpike." We had a very nice chat and he got a $3 tip. That was a pretty decent back then. :rolleyes:

 
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