StarComm and Engine Noise/Interferrence.

[mdisher]

OK, here's the scoop (really trying to make this short)

06 FJR, Garmin 550, Starcomm, with shielded magic Garmin cable.

Back when I used the BlueSeas for power I had (0) Engine noise, no interference what-so-ever.

I migrated to a FuzeBlock[TM] a while ago and have been battling Engine noise from time to time. It's not always there though.

Power from batter to FuzeBlock:

FuzeBock provides power for:

- Heated Gear (Switched)

- Glenda Lights (Switched)

- Heated Grips (Switched)

- StarComm (Always On)

- Garmin GPS (Always On)

- Valentine (Always On)

That's all 6 Circuits used up.

The HID's I installed this weekend are run completely separate from the FuzeBlock[TM]. The have their own harness, own relay, and get trigger power from either the High Beam Relay, or the left front running light. Now I could be wrong about that particular +12v switched tap. But I'm pretty sure it's the running light, might be the Factory Heated Grip +12v lead.

Hear at the symptoms.

It's not typical engine noise, not a whine. Though I do have a whine that I know is caused by the Glendas. It changes frequency when I dim them and goes away if It turn them off. (I installed them with a switch). But it's low enough that I don't hear it when I wear ear plugs which is 99% of the time. It there is no music/audio, I'll here it but otherwise it's a non issue. Edit: Glenda's are also powered off of this Heated Grip + lead, I moved them to try isolate them from the FuzeBlock.

What started recently (prior to the HID install), is at certain times, normally during acceleration, audio will fuzz out, get somewhat garbled, then get muted. It's like the Starcomm either picks up noise on the aux circuit (which is currently disconnected from the V1), and mutes the audio. Or the Starcomm is losing power and shutting down. But I don't think that's happening, as I can still hear the Glenda driven whine during this blackout.

Normally once I'm cruising it will all just come back, clear as day, until I stop and have to accelerate through a couple gears again.

*sometimes* when I turn on the HID lights it will seem to trigger this, but it's less than 2 out of 10 times.

It almost acts like it's the Garmin mount going bad (again), I've been through several since 07 but this one is pretty new. New as of last fall.

Clues where to start? What to change? Tips advice?

-MD

 

[Queensland Ken]

Hi,

The only thing I can think of is that there may be a ground loop on the neutrals.

Make sure all neutrals join up together and attach to the neutral terminal on the battery.

I haven't ever used a FuzeBlock only the BlueSeas with it's neutral bar/link.

Mark sure you have no neutral wires attached to the bikes frame.

Good luck

 

[airboss]

I have a similar set up with fuzeblock, except I run the starcom straight from the battery.

 

[yamafitter]

You mentioned a Garmin cable but you may require a Starcomm cable for the Zumo that includes a signal isolator to block out any induced noise

 

[Richouse]

Electrical issues can really be a PITA. You need to unhook everything except the starcom. This should be easy since you have the fuzeblock. I would even unhook the fuzeblock an run the starcom to the battery (just for now). Now go for a test ride... Do you have noise? If not add the fuzeblock. Go for a ride. do you have noise? If not add the starcomm to the fuze block. Go for a ride.. do you have noise? if not then start adding things to the fuze block one at a time and go for a ride until you find what makes the noise. Then you can deal with it....

Hope this helps...

 

[HaulinAshe]

Those uber-expensive Starcom isolated audio cables actually go bad, slowly, painfully, deceptively. My advice is before you start tearing everything apart, pickup a new cable and try it, or at least try the cheapo non-isolated audio cable just for yucks.

I have spent a lot of time tracking down Starcom problems, only to find out it was the damn cable all along!!!

 

[mdisher]

Those uber-expensive Starcom isolated audio cables actually go bad, slowly, painfully, deceptively. My advice is before you start tearing everything apart, pickup a new cable and try it, or at least try the cheapo non-isolated audio cable just for yucks.

I have spent a lot of time tracking down Starcom problems, only to find out it was the damn cable all along!!!

Yeah, I do have the Starcomm/Garmin isolated cable. I need a new headset anyway so I'll order up both and replace it. If that doesn't work I guess I'm in for a long day of trial and error.

-MD

 

[Fullchat]

I had similar issues with the Autocom and Garmin 550. This had the proper Garmin to Autocom interface lead and still caught some interference.

I did have an Active Plus unit but have upgraded to a Super Pro Automatic

The Autocom is fitted under the rider seat.

The first unit had interference so I concentrated on the power/earth feed.Twin core wire taken direct from the battery, and fused, to a relay fitted near the Autocom with the switch feed taken from the wiring running to the rear of the bike. Interference cured. It was an earthing issue. They like the negative to be wired direct to the battery.

Fitted the upgraded unit and interference returned. Unplug the Garmin interface and no interference. The lead was routed under the tank layed on the silver insulation.

Removed the left (as you are sitting on the bike) fairing panel.Routed the interface lead along the outside of the main frame using those stick on pads which you can loop a ratchet tie through and down toward the gear lever and then up towards the rear of the tank.

Interference gone. I figured the frame would act as insulation from electrical interference which it did and the cable was as far away for interference sources as I could get it.

 

[War Machine]

I always start with the simplest solutions first. Its usually the cheapest!

You mentioned that the Fuzeblock was powered from the battery, but you weren't precise as to the ground. Hopefully you grounded the fuzeblock from the battery also. This is the purest ground & will eliminate engine noise. Using a chassis ground will add interference with any audio device. If the fuzeblock is grounded from the battery all other items wired directly to the fuzeblock would eliminate additional interference.

Hope this helps.

 

[mdisher]

Yes to all that asked...

The fuzeblock has it's own 12 gauge leads to both Battery + and Battery -, the switch signal is the tail light.

I ordered up some new starcom patch cords today, and noticed they had a filtered power supply so I ordered that too. Both the Garmin and the Starcom are powered from the Fuzeblock right now.

But that being said, the cables do run under the tank on top of shit. But it's been that way for oh 35k miles and I haven't had the tank off since I did a valve check 15k ago.

Its quite possible, that those cables are worn from the heat, etc. When I get the new ones this week I plan to re-wire and re-route everything. And to the simple process of elimination.

Plug in the Garmin/Stacom go for a ride, then start adding things one by one.

-MD

 

[WRichStrom]

Those uber-expensive Starcom isolated audio cables actually go bad, slowly, painfully, deceptively. My advice is before you start tearing everything apart, pickup a new cable and try it, or at least try the cheapo non-isolated audio cable just for yucks.

I have spent a lot of time tracking down Starcom problems, only to find out it was the damn cable all along!!!

I second what Ashe says on the Starcom cables. Before I went further I would buy another one of their cables to see if that was it all along. This is happened to me twice. I was convinced at one point I had a bad Starcom and bought another. Found it was the darned cable all along.

 

[Aasland]

Buddy with a Starcomm had a similar problem which he traced to a bad potentiometer in the starcomm unit. I think he got it fixed ... don't remember entirely.

On a different path, back in the day when I had a JMCB2003 I found that noise (whine or clicks) could be minimized to tolerable levels by experimenting with routing.

Good luck!

 

[mdisher]

Yeah, the more I think about this the more I'm considering that the cables have *likely* started breaking down. My premier audio power bundle runs over the top of the motor, and includes all the audio cables from the StarComm under the seat and ancillary power for items like the Garmin/Valentine1, etc. The primary power leads to the FuzeBlock (also under the seat) ride down the right side of the bike).

When I get the new cables, I'll create a new and improved bundle, and run them down the left side of the bike away from direct heat (as much as possible) and away from sparkplugs and coils n stuff.

On a side not has anyone ever tried wrapping their bundle in something like this:

https://www.zippertubing.com/Shielded-ZT-Tape.aspx

Shielded ZT-Tape® is a combination of Zippertubing's fire retardant Polyurethane ZT-Tape® stagger bonded to a layer of Z-3250-CN shielding fabric with an electrically conductive adhesive backing. When spirally wrapped around electrical wires or other items using a 50% overlap technique, this product provides a finished installation with excellent electromagnetic shielding characteristics, shield coverage of 98 percent and a flame retardant insulation jacket with good dielectric strength. This tape eliminates the need to go back over a shielded assembly a second time to apply a protective dielectric insulator. Shielded ZT-Tape® is available in 3/4, 1-1/8, 1-1/2 and 2.0 inch widths to accommodate most wire harness diameters. This product has an operational temperature range of -45 to 107ºC.

Probably not going to be able to get that at "The Shack", at least not these days anyway.

-MD

 

[mdisher]

Alrighty then.

Ok since it was only 80 degrees and humidity was low this fine evening I started to dig in, even though I don't have the new StarComm cables that I ordered yet.

As noted previously, I had all of my audio powered stuff hanging off a FuzeBlock[TM].

Tonight I once again cleaned all of that up. I ran a distribution/power bar to the back of the bike from the battery, then moved the GPS and StarComm to this in front of the FuzeBlock. Things on my FuzeBlock continue to be:

Horn, Gerbings outlet, Glenda Lights, and my Honda heated grip package.

In the past I could hear the heated grip controller in my headset as it cycled, I could also hear a hum from the Glenda lights.

No more! It's all quiet, I still have some 'engine' noise that gets eliminated when I unplug the microphone cord so obviously it's picking it up from something. Once I get new cords, I'm going to wrap them and route them differently.

The other benefit of tonight's exercise is I got my heated grips back. They used to work, but this spring went to where they would only work on 1 or two, never on 3 or 4. The controller would just blink like there wasn't enough voltage to support said grips. That is gone, they crank up to 4 even at an idle which is sweet. Not that I need them right now, but yeah down the road I will.

All is good so far, at least in the driveway, reving the engine. We'll know more on the commute tomorrow.

Wh00p.

-MD

 

[yamafitter]

When I get the new cables, I'll create a new and improved bundle, and run them down the left side of the bike away from direct heat (as much as possible) and away from sparkplugs and coils n stuff.

On a side not has anyone ever tried wrapping their bundle in something like this:

https://www.zippertub...ed-ZT-Tape.aspx

Probably not going to be able to get that at "The Shack", at least not these days anyway.

-MD

I have used similar products at work. Just remember that you only connect one end of the shield to a common ground point or you will definitely set up a ground loop and instead of a noise isolator you will have set up an antenna.

If you go back to the manufacter's link and click on the distributor's button at the top of the page you may be able to track down a source close to you. There is a supplier 10 km from where I live, I just don't know what quantities they sell as a minimum order.