Starter relay "laughs" at me

[ponyfool]

Sorry for my extended absence. It's been a while since I've been here and I hate to be the kind of person that just shows up when I have a problem, but I have to be one of those guys right now.

Out of nowhere, on Sunday, when I went to start the bike, I would push the starter button and would get the buzz/vibration similar to what you would hear when you have a low battery. Assuming I had a low battery, I push started it and went on my way. When I got to my destination, same thing. I assumed my new (6 month old battery) was having issues, so I took it to Batteries Plus where I got the battery. They load tested it and said it didn't have sufficient enough of a charge to test, but the result they did get indicated enough to them, so they handed me a new fully charged battery.

Once in the bike, same thing. After being on a tender/charger for a few days, same thing.

So, I take right side panel apart, access the doo-hickey (is it the solenoid?) that separates the battery line from the direct line to the starter and jump it the way the manual says to test the starter and I get sparks and no action/movement/sound at all from starter, just lots of sparks.

So, is my starter fried? Stuck? Gremlins? What?

On a side note, in the off chance it is a grounding issue from recalls, I went ahead and made an appointment to have 2 recall issues fixed.

Thoughts?

 

[dcarver]

I have thoughts!

1. Welcome back, great to see you post again, Pony!

2. On the off chance, have you tried rocking the bike and forth while in gear? Can you hear the starter motor move?

3. What did you jumper the solenoid with? If it's a smallish wire, you'll get sparks and no action. If it's 10 gauge or better, you'll soon be removing the throttle bodies and replacing the motor.

If that's the case, search on SkooterG and starter motor.. he had a good pictorial.

Oh, wait, you're the guy who dropped the engine, split the cases, fixed the tranny, slammed said engine back in the frame and the thing ran and shifted great? :huh: :lol:

Don

 

[FJRay]

Wish the timing was better. I was in Portland today and I have a spare starter I could have brought along.I keep thinking mine is cranking slow but I haven't checked it out and it still works.

 

[wfooshee]

Until you know how much current is going through that you really don't know anything, but it's sounding like the starter.

To change the starter, lift the tank, yank the airbox, injection, and throttle bodies. You can't even see the starter until the throttle bodies are off.

Nothing to it for a guy who's split the case.

 

[ponyfool]

I used a pair of needle nose pliers. No problem getting current through those.

If I push start the bike and ride it, wouldn't that do anything to unjam a finicky starter? I'm mechanically inclined and am a quick learner, but I don't know anything about anything until I have to tear it apart. Then I learn and am good for the next time. I mean I've changed starters before on cars, no problem. Getting to and changing this one won't be an issue either I'm sure. But all of my tools are at a job site, otherwise I would have torn into it today. Sounds like a good father's day task. A new starter is hella expensive. What's it take to rebuild it?

 

[RossKean]

Any chance its just the solenoid? On second glance, it appears that you tried bypassing the solenoid, without success. Personally, I think I would pull the starter and see if it could be rebuilt before I spent $360 or more on a new one. Nothing currently on ebay.

Ross

 

[FJRay]

Any chance its just the solenoid? On second glance, it appears that you tried bypassing the solenoid, without success. Personally, I think I would pull the starter and see if it could be rebuilt before I spent $360 or more on a new one. Nothing currently on ebay.

Ross

As long as the armature is good and the magnets are ok it's an easy rebuild. A brush set,seals and a bearing. They usually go bad from oil getting past the seal and mucking up the brushes.

 

[FJRay]

Any chance its just the solenoid? On second glance, it appears that you tried bypassing the solenoid, without success. Personally, I think I would pull the starter and see if it could be rebuilt before I spent $360 or more on a new one. Nothing currently on ebay.

Ross

As long as the armature is good and the magnets are ok it's an easy rebuild. A brush set,seals and a bearing. They usually go bad from oil getting past the seal and mucking up the brushes.

 

[wfooshee]

I used a pair of needle nose pliers. No problem getting current through those.

I meant how much current the starter is drawing. That's one of the checks for starter health. In my incident a few years ago, I put an 160-amp meter on the starter circuit and it got pegged. Ought to have been about 65 to 75 amps. My starter was drawing over 80 amps with no load, which ought to have been about 35 or so.

 

[JR'SFJR]

I posted about 3 months ago what happened on my 2007 with almost 60k. The cranking sounded a little slow for part of a second just before firing off. The battery loaded tested great. I have a DC clamp on ammeter that I clamped over the positive cable by the solenoid and jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver. Drew around 220 amps and immediately went to very slow cranking and groaning. 2 hours later had the starter out and jumped it off my truck battery with jumper cables, drawing about 180 maps on the bench. Starters are easy to open up, but I took it to an old starter shop. All he did was clean out between commutator bars and spun the armature in a lathe, polishing the commutator with abrasive paper, greased the bearings and assembled it. Holding the brushes out from the commutator during assembly can be tricky, but alligator clips make the job easy. Ran great and only drew about 30 amps on the bench. Took me about 3 hours to reassemble along with cleaning the throttles.

 

[SkooterG]

Look at ebay for a used starter. New one's are too damned pricey! And/or check around for a local shop that we rebuild at a fair price. Frequently however, it's cheaper to get a used one off ebay in the $50-$80 range.

Good luck. And good to see you back. If that's what it takes, I hope your FJR is always breaking down!

 

[TestPilot]

Sounds much like my problem about a year ago. My Gen 1 always was prone to the slow stater syndrome, and when a new battery didn't solve the problem I got a used starter off eBay ( from the UK) and that solved the problem. My starter was (is) in great condition except for a 'tracking' area where there has obviously been electrickery running amok on one of the brush wires.

 

[ponyfool]

OK, finally had time to tear into the bike this morning and removed the starter. Before completely disconnecting it, I decided to reconnect the battery and crank it, and the starter spins wonderfully. No weird noises, no grinding, just what seems like a very healthy starter.

Will button it back up and see if it just wanted to be fondled. Otherwise, I'll be back in a few hours asking what to do next.

 

[fudgejerkin1188]

Did you spin the stater connected to the engine or lose with no load ?

 

[CAJW]

OK, finally had time to tear into the bike this morning and removed the starter. Before completely disconnecting it, I decided to reconnect the battery and crank it, and the starter spins wonderfully. No weird noises, no grinding, just what seems like a very healthy starter.

Will button it back up and see if it just wanted to be fondled. Otherwise, I'll be back in a few hours asking what to do next.

Always seems to work for me.

 

[ponyfool]

I pulled the starter out, reconnected the battery, touched the starter to ground, hit starter switch. Starter purred.

Reassembled everything (I have a superstition never to try something when things are halfway put together - weird, I know), and she started right up like there was never a problem.

NO IDEA what the issue actually was. I think I may be on to something as far as she just wanted to be fondled. Or, maybe this was her way of getting me to change the antifreeze? Who knows.

 

[dcarver]

RuhRoh, the magical healing bench.....

 

[PhilJet09]

Honestly, if I went through all the trouble to pull the damned thing out, I'd get it rebuilt. Just my $0.02.

 

[ponyfool]

Honestly, if I went through all the trouble to pull the damned thing out, I'd get it rebuilt. Just my $0.02.

It really wasn't much trouble actually. I've had her apart many times, throttle bodies and air box aren't that difficult. Hour at most to take apart, hour to put back together.

But, i just wanted her running while weather is still nice. If it needs rebuilt, it'll happen in winter.