Steering head ring nuts

[GPRIDER]

Ok, I've tried to do searches for this info and it's just not bringing up what I need. I have two conflicting sources for information on the tourqe of the ring nuts on the top of the steering head. One was by a guy named Paul Winslow that I printed off about a year or so ago. Showing how he serviced his steering bearings on his FJR, he mentions this. "Since Yamaha is using ball bearings here you tighten this nut just up snug-no preload as the ball bearings will dimple the race. Also you only tighten the lock nut enough to compress the rubber ring partially." The Yamaha service manual says to tighten the lower ring nut initially to 37ft-lbs. then loosen one turn and tighten again to 13ft-lbs. They say pretty much what Paul said about tightening the upper ring nut. These two methods sound quite a bit different. Anybody know for sure which way to go on this? I would tend to lean more toward the Yamaha service manual.

GP

 

[Ignacio]

Hmmm. To believe a factory specified amount that presumably was developed by professional engineers or take the opinions from do-it-yourselfers and those you're about to get from people you've never met with fake screen names? That's a toughy. :huh:

 

[Bounce]

Details here:

https://www.bikes-n-spikes.org/maint/shb/shb.html

Even though some people have reported finding errors in various shop manuals over the years, I'd put weight into Yamaha's recommendations. YMMV

 

[Woodstock]

Hmmm. To believe a factory specified amount that presumably was developed by professional engineers or take the opinions from do-it-yourselfers and those you're about to get from people you've never met with fake screen names? That's a toughy. :huh:

Which is exactly why I tighten down that oil drain bolt so much.

You can't be too careful - don't want it falling off. B)

 

[Colin24]

For years I had always used the above mentioned suggestion for tightening the steering head bearings. Just go by feel and make them tight but not too tight.

When I got the FJR I have been taking the time to get the proper tools. So when I serviced the steering head bearings this past winter I bought the proper wrench and followed the instructions to the letter. The result was the job went easier and came out better than I have ever done by just going by feel.

It's a pricey item but If your going to do the steering head bearings yourself I would highly recomend:

- Buy a factory service manual

- Buy the proper steering nut wrench

- Follow the instructions in the manual.

Seriously, do this and you wont go wrong.

Note: If you buy a generic steering nut wrench it must be the same dimensions as the one recomended by Yamaha. Without going into a high school physics lession, If it is longer or shorter then the torque being applied to the nut, even if the wrench says a certain amount, may be incorrect. And this is one place where you really want to follow the torque specs dead on!

Hope this helps

Colin

 

[GPRIDER]

Well Ignacio, I guess I should blow off all the information I've gotten from a guy that I don't know with the fake screen name of Warchild. I do put some stock in the info some of the people on this board give to us. Not all. I actually got the info off of the FJR tech website. I thought most of it was reliable information until I got to the part about hand tightening something like the steering head. Just thought I'd get an answer from someone who had done this procedure before.

Thanks for the reply Bounce. Hope you are feeling better and can go riding soon.

Thanks to Colin also.

GP

 

[Ignacio]

Well Ignacio, I guess I should blow off all the information I've gotten from a guy that I don't know with the fake screen name of Warchild.

In the case of steering head bearing the aforementioned Warchild affirms the manual all the way. Personally, I follow the manual on the oil plug too.

 

[S76]

Personally, I follow the manual on the oil plug too.

Helicoils for Sale! Get em while they're hot!

 

[Ignacio]

Personally, I follow the manual on the oil plug too.

Helicoils for Sale! Get em while they're hot!

I fixed the quote for ya'...

If it strips and I've followed the factory manual specs (which I do) you can bet I'm going to claim it under the YES and they're going to fix it....no cost to me.

 

[GPRIDER]

I'm usually a manual guy all the way. One of the reasons I bought a torque wrench was because I was overtightening bolts and nuts. I agree about the YES plan paying for somethng like that.

GP

 

[dobias]

Can anyone tell me the size of the steering head bearing nut that needs torquing?

I'd like to search for a deep socket to allow me to torque without using the side saddle gizmo. I'm just not comfortable with it. There are extra large sockets available that could be adapted to a torque wrench.

It may be overkill to most of you, but I'd still like to try this.

If memory serves me correctly, there is a readymade socket avaiable, but at a high cost.

dobias :glare:

 

[SkooterG]

Hey, torque wrenches are known to be out of calibration frequently. Plus, after you have stripped your oil pan drain threads, why should Yamaha believie you did it correctly? They are going to think you messed it up by doing it in-correctly. I would.

Not worth the hassle, so though initially following the given torque spec, I now just snug it. Too many people stripping those things out.

As for the steering head bearings, I too wonder about this. I don't have the confidence and experience with this procedure to know exactly what I am supposed to be doing or feeling. I did tighten my head bearings recently following the service manual's procedure, and I think they are still loose. Other forum members have reported the same results. So then came along Radman and some others who suggested upping the secondary torque value a little bit to 15 ft-lbs or so. I am inclined to agree and will be giving that a try soon.

 

[radman]

Torque to the 13 lb spec. If you feel it knocking, try 14. Still? 15. This is about where mine is. Loose is loose,regardless of what you've set the torque at. Dimpling of the ball/race is a concern, but it takes a pretty heavy hand to take it to that point. If it's at 13, and still moving around, does one feel righteous having it at the fact spec, yet living with the knock, or take it up a bit and lie? :lol:

 

[twowheelnut]

Torque to the 13 lb spec. If you feel it knocking, try 14. Still? 15. This is about where mine is. Loose is loose,regardless of what you've set the torque at. Dimpling of the ball/race is a concern, but it takes a pretty heavy hand to take it to that point. If it's at 13, and still moving around, does one feel righteous having it at the fact spec, yet living with the knock, or take it up a bit and lie? :lol:

Hey, rad... What effect, if any, would slight looseness of that bearing have on handling - ie, would that promote the wobble that peeps be getting on the decel through 50 mph?

 

[radman]

More disconcerting than anything else, I would imagine. That knocking indicates excessive clearance, hammering them, which is gonna dimple the races and put a flat on the balls where they contact the race, eventually ruining them.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>....a guy named Paul Winslow ....mentions this. "Since Yamaha is using ball bearings here you tighten this nut just up snug-no preload as the ball bearings will dimple the race.

radman Posted Today, 04:26 PMMore disconcerting than anything else, I would imagine. That knocking indicates excessive clearance, hammering them, which is gonna dimple the races and put a flat on the balls where they contact the race, eventually ruining them.

Rad's the correct one on this. Actually, the precise adjustment of ball and race steering head bearings is one of "feel" -- yeah, I know -- that really helps. Too bad there isn't a better answer for this one (well, there are old mechanics' ways of doing this -- but, they (we) don't like to tell them for fear of ridicule). It's happened -- some just can't believe that it could be right without a torque wrench....?But, back to the issue at hand -- too loose a fit and the balls will hammer into the races and "take a set" (a way common circumstance in m/cs for ages); too tight and they'll be "stiff" to "notchy" (won't want to turn free) and may need premature replacement also. Too little/no grease my cause similar problems. Tapered roller set-ups don't escape these problems either -- though they often are capable of handling more weight/load for their size -- but, with the drawback of not allowing the "free-feel" of balls.

Nor will tight (or loose) adjustment of steering head bearings be the source of repeated handling problems -- or, can they correct same. There's one proper adjustment -- and that's it. Problems,more-often-than-not, (IME) stem from improper: vehicle loading; tire pressure; tire wear; overly worn suspension; suspension way out of adjustment (or, overloaded); or, poor general frame geometry (for the use it's being put to).

Bottom line: it's one of those adjustments that has to be "right" -- either learn to do it or find someone who knows.

And...don't take this lightly -- your bikes handling is directly affected by this. Maybe better? to leave it alone if you don't know what you're doing....?

 

[McRuss]

Hey, rad... What effect, if any, would slight looseness of that bearing have on handling - ie, would that promote the wobble that peeps be getting on the decel through 50 mph?

It would put a dimple in the race/or flatten a ball, not sure which, but it causes a detent. I know because I have to change out the bearings and races because of said detent. I think the dimple is in the race, a flat ball would not necessarily cause a detent, especially after you remove the bearings, clean and replace.

 

[GPRIDER]

Thanks for all the input guys. Dobias, the only wrench I've seen so far is the half moon looking thing. May be another one out there. Just haven't seen it.

GP

 

[Bounce]

Can anyone tell me the size of the steering head bearing nut that needs torquing? I'd like to search for a deep socket to allow me to torque without using the side saddle gizmo.

Look at items #8 and #10 in the diagram above. A socket won't work on them. They have a crenellated shape to the OD. The spanner grabs the crenellation where a socket wouldn't have a flat surface to work with.

--edit to correct typo--