Stereo replacement

[C&C]

Okay, I'm a dinosaur, at least in the stereo components arena. My Pioneer SX-737 receiver just started cracking (loud, random cracking noises independent of adjustments to the controls), through the speakers recently, and I can't isolate the cause. It is not potentiometers or faulty switches (at least not any from the front control panel). I believe my stereo is dying (bought this in 1975 so I've gotten great service from this old piece of equipment).

In this day and age of surround, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, I'm really only looking for a good replacement; any recommendation? Should I just stick with a good stereo (two channel; I've looked around a little and they are still available). I'll need multiple inputs, as I have a turntable, cassette deck, DVD and CD player currently hooked up to my old receiver.

It's been a long time since I've gone conponents shopping. Anyone have some solid advice (without blowing me out of the water with the new technologies and techno-speak). And, as an after thought, the speakers I have still sound really good, should I get new speakers too.

Any advice appreciated; thanks. Chuck

 

[yanktar]

As with everything, it depends on what you want to do and what you want to spend.

If you are looking STRICTLY for a music-only system then, despite the hype, two channels with full-range speakers are for you. You may want to add a sub-woofer, but solely to compensate for a very large room. Your choices are endless, from vintage tube and S/S systems to modern. A simple Onyko receiver that puts out about 75 wpch can be had for less than $100 and will out-perform most of the expensive stuff from long ago.

Still, a really nice Dynaco ST-70 tube amp that's been re-conditioned puts out a warm rich sound--for about $250-$300 on eBay. But you need a pre-amp for that--either a Dynaco Pat-4 or Pat-5 works nicely.

But for two channel, it's really the speakers that make it. I am particularly partial to older Boston Acoustics HD-10s or the old Large Advents. Of course the problem with these is that the foam rubber surround on the woofers rots. However, you can get the repair kit and instructions from Newfoam.com for about $30. I find newer speakers are mostly narrower, but, to my ear, have a metallic overtone.

OTOH, for home theater, 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 are the standards. But 5.1 will be more than enough. Here, satellite/sub-woofer type speaker systems work well, but I STILL prefer to use full-range speakers for the front and back--but the backs can be far smaller. I use the BA-HD 10s I mentioned as my front speakers (my preference) and HD-5s as the back--you don't need monsters speakers for the back. You also need a center speaker--that's mostly for speech, (that makes 5) and a sub-woofer (that's the .1 in 5.1).

But the 5.1 is not really good for music. DVD players may either have digital outputs that require a decoder in the amp or may have the outputs themselves, I'm not sure it matters for most people.

While I really like the old Dynaco stuff for two-channel, for all-around usefulness I STILL like Pioneer best. I especially like the Elite series. It's easy to use (relatively--no Audio/Video receiver is that simple), easier than Yamaha or Denon and stone-cold reliable. It can function as two channel, 5.1 or 7.1 and is THX-approved. I still have a perfectly good Pioneer Dolby Pro-logic receiver that's 15 years old.

Good speakers are essential in any case, but here's one place where hype is nonsense and you have to be careful: Wiring.

You will be pushed to spend insane amounts of money on speaker wire. The salesmen will hype you on Monster Cable till you think you are committing a sin not to get it. Don't bother. Home Depot sells stranded #10 (or #12) speaker wire for about $.35/foot and it's just as good. It is FAR more important to make sure the length of wire to each side of a pair of speakers is identical, even if you have to bundle some up. Front to rear doesn't matter but left to right does. Good fittings at the ends of the speaker wire though are very good.

But for connecters between components and the receiver, good quality cables and fittings are far more worth it, especially if you have long runs. Here Monster Cable and AR cables are good choice, but they are expensive. However, the HDMI cables sold by MC and AR are outlandishly overpriced--you can find them on the 'Net for 1/3 to 1/4 the cost--and when MC wants $100 for a 6' cable that's significant.

Lots of other people will chime in with their opinions--ultimately it's your ears and your budget.

Crackling like you describe in your current Pioneer could be dirty pots or switches. A can of potentiometer cleaner may save you a fortune. But it could also be a dying condenser or a noisy transistor. While these components aren't expensive, finding the bad one will cost more in repairs than the unit is worth (sorry) and the Onkyo I described above will out-perform it for less than the cost of the repair.

Good luck!

 

[Farkles]

go here can't go wrong got a great 815 for $100.00

https://stores.ebay.com/Pioneer-Electronics...6QQftidZ2QQtZkm

 

[C&C]

Thanks for the replies, I guess it's time to start looking around.

 

[dean]

good info, yank. glad you read the post before i did, so you could do the typing, you pretty much summed it up.

if the original poster is looking for basic music reproduction, can't go wrong with mid-level asian brand like aforementioned onkyo, yamaha, or denon. if getting into the home theater field, would stick with either onkyo or denon for basic consumer-level stuff. but then you're getting into matching front speakers with center speaker, subs, sub amps (possibly), dvd players, blu-ray, etc.

i'm also a boston fan, have a-100 floor standings originally purchased in 1986, now have an all-boston 6.1 setup (except the hsu tn1220 sub and hsu aka bag end brand 500w amp) in the family room and a pseudo 5.1 (no sub) in the bedroom.

sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. old hi-fi hobbyist from the 80's, can't stop talking about it.

anyway, yeah, 2-channel receivers are cheaper than dirt due to the rage of home theater. good luck.

 

[git-r-dan]

speakers

 

[donaldb]

C&C, Yanktar gave you some pretty good solid advice.......................really there are only 2 choices when it comes to 2 channel audio (which by the way IMHO is the best and only way to go if GOOD music is your sole purpose). When I say 2 options what I mean is tubes least common---direct point to point wiring and...........transistor/solidstate being your most common Best Buy, Circuit City, Yamaha, Dennon, Pioneer, etc. etc. Tube point to point is the "old" way, however with the advancment of resistors capacitors, yadda, yadda the sound quality is astounding. The old standard rule about opinions (like ******** everybody has one) is pretty much the standard when it comes to stereo sound and choice. I will say for me that tubes are the only way to go, for my style of music.

My personal system is a Conrad Johnson CAV integrated amp, I am not even going to get into my tube CD player, least not here, PM me if your interested, and my speakers are PSB Stratus Mini's in piano black. I have an old analog tuner NIKKO (I like to old dial type) and I have a Bottlehead Seduction phono preamp which drives my turntable.................YES........I am a huge album/vinyl nut!!!

Interconnects and speakerwire is important but there is a lot of hokus pokus and snake oil when you enter the speaker wire and interconnect arena.................so be careful here in what you buy the price can get crazy. Either of these can completely change your sound.

Try to select a quality speaker which accepts bi-wire speaker cables/connections.......and for the $ I happen to like PSB speakers, but your choice may be completely different, PSB is not a speaker you will go down to your local Hoopers Sound and listen to like you can a pair of Klipsch (which after old Klipsch daddy died and son took over and started mass producing and cutting corners IMHO ruined a great speaker).

Couple suggestions............go to web site: DIY Cable and to Audiogon.

DIY Cable has very good speakercable/wire and interconnects at fair and reasonable prices and they will not pull your leg and sell you snakeoil.

Audiogon has both tube systems and modern transistor/solidstate systems for sell and trade. I no longer do the transistor/solidstate stuff anymore since I went completely to tube systems. But if you browze Audiogon.com in the integrated tube amp section I can only suggest a few better known reliable systems which are very popular in the tube crowd and they are: Conrad Johnson (of course my favorite) Manley (I like there stingray model), Cary, and PrimaLuna ProLogue.

Also, you may want to take a look at Upscaleaudio.com. There you will find my CD player and PSB speakers and well and several tube systems and speaker manufacturers. Good luck!! I love 2 channel stereo..............as you can tell I can go on about this subject all day. It's all about the music baby!! Tubes =warm fuzzy.......solidstate =bright crisp.........it's all a matter of personal preference

 

[C&C]

Thanks for the advice; I do appreciate all. I'm now looking fairly hard at the Pioneer SX-516k and SX-816k (there is also a 517 and 817 model but for the life of me I can't tell what the difference is between the 16's and the 17's). I know they are not high-end receivers but some of the press on them is pretty good for what I'm probably looking for. I think I'll be in the market for speakers as well; I have the original Pioneers I bought when I bought the receiver, circa 1975. (CS-66G model). The foam around the tweeter is degraded but they still sound pretty good; I'm 56 years old and have some hearing damage so it would be a waste for me to go too high end (plus I'm a little on the frugal/cheap side )

On a slight side note, my SX-737 has been working without the cracking for the last couple days, so I don't know what's going on now. (Again, I can't innitiate the cracking sound by adjusting any of the volume, tone, balance controls or other switches, so going back to yanktar's suggestion of a bad transistor or condenser;..........................maybe, but I would have thought it would have gotten worse. I was watching a movie (DVD) this weekend, the sound went totally dead for about two seconds, came back on and hasn't cut out since. (sounds like some of the FJR problems reported here occasionally :lol: )

Again, thanks for all the input, guys.

 

[yanktar]

The problem is you can get pretty good sound for not too much money. Then you can get incrementally better sound for more money. And so it goes. Until you are spending insane amounts of money for really miniscule increases in quality.

Home Theater vs stereo can really affect your choices. I am VERY happy with my system as it does both. THEORTICALLY, I could have hooked it up for the speakers at my pool, but I didn't.

If your ears aren't gourmet audiofile quality, you can be VERY happy with inexpensive middle-of-the-road equipment. BTW, the MOST important component in your system is your speakers. Since turntables and tapedecks are pretty much obsolete (there are reasons to use them but not for most people) only the speakers are left as a mechanical component.

And, no matter WHAT anyone tells you, the mechanicals affect sound far more than the electronics. How that coil bouncing back and forth under that paper or plastic cone moves the air, and the placement and shape of your room is FAR more critical than the receiver you buy.

Turntables (and their cartridges) moved the same way as speakers, so they too shaped the sound. THEORETICALLY, no turntable can out-perform a CD player...but it's just not true. I tried it with an album I had in vinyl and CD, adjusted the volume so they were the same and did an A/B and TO MY SHOCK the album was better. The midrange was clear and well-defined, and kept up with the bass and treble. The CD had a muddy, poorly defined mid-range. Why? CDs are no longer engineered with the care they were when the technology was new. THEN, when CDs cost 3x what an LP cost, they HAD to blow you away--and they did!

But the trick is to find speakers you like that you can afford, then match a receiver to them.

Tubes / solid state? That's up to you. When I first played with a tube amp, I was surprised at how nice it was. Something like a Dynaco ST-70, only 35wpch is usually enough, but also a pair of Mark III amps give you 60 wpch.

Unfortunately, modern-built tube amps are UNGODLY expensive. There's one that's a kit that's a modern equivalent of the ST-70 that's a BARGAIN at $900...they usually cost much more. Older used ones are tricky. They can be sweet as an old violin, or the condenser or transformers may be about to die (I had a Mark III set off the smoke detector when the tranny cooked--one Thanksgiving!)

BUT, if you know what you are doing, the used market can be incredibly rewarding. My pool stereo is like that: The amp is a solid state Dyanaco ST-400 (200wpch!), preamp is a Dynaco Pat-5, Tuner is a Dynaco FM-5, cassette deck is a Nakamichi RX505 the one that flipped the tape for auto-reverse, and the CD changer is a generic cheapie. Speakers are Boston Acoustic (!) Voyager 6 outdoor units. Sounds great!.

 

[git-r-dan]

(which after old Klipsch daddy died and son took over and started mass producing and cutting corners IMHO ruined a great speaker).

Ah, the old Klipsch La Scalla's - 104 db @ 1 watt w/ 3 matched horns. I was yelling at the sales dude (back in the mid 70's) how many watts is that? He looked at the meter and said, "Almost a watt." Didn't know about the cutting corners thing but was very impressed w/ the small bookshelf speakers a few months back at some mom and pop audio shop. These are not sold at Best Buy. I was really impressed w/ the Bang and Ollufsen speakers that looked like something out of the Jetson's at the Millineum Mall audio store (FL). Asked the dude how much? He said 14. I asked $1400? He said no, $14,000...gulp. They did sound good.

 

[Badcat]

Just get an iPod and some good headphones and skip the other B.S. :dribble:

 

[yanktar]

Just get an iPod and some good headphones and skip the other B.S. :dribble:

That works too...unless you want to listen without headphones <_<

 

[donaldb]

git-r-dan Posted Yesterday, 11:39 PM
Ah, the old Klipsch La Scalla's - 104 db @ 1 watt w/ 3 matched horns. I was yelling at the sales dude (back in the mid 70's) how many watts is that? He looked at the meter and said, "Almost a watt."

Prolly running those speakers w/a Mcintosh........if I had to guess.

Now that is what I am talking about!! I bought a set of Heresies back in the late 70's, which at the time Klipsch was making some of the best speakers on the market. The Heresies were not high efficiency speakers like you are referring to above, as they took a fair amount of wattage to push, however the quality was excellent for the time. Klipsch continued to make excellent quality products all the way up into the 90's but when pappa died all things changed. Present day Klipsch still makes a good product, which I would compare in sound quality equal to Bose in a lot of respects, and for the masses, both are very good speakers.

However, to get what Klipsch use to be, it's time to move on. Take a looksee at B & W, also some Martin Logan's-(a interesting speaker), some Monarchs, even PSB like what I have, make a excellent speaker for the $. When you look at these speakers and look into tube amps you are moving away from the Best Buy masses, for a reason, if you are really into music. Some are, some aren't. It's not for everyone.

Most people have absolutley no idea the kind of power and sound quality that can be produced with less than 1 watt w/high efficiency amps and speakers. Changing a pentode tube system to a triode tube, you typically loose power but gain quality and efficiency in sound. Most want the most powerful wattage system there $ can buy........................if most only knew just WTFTWD. :fool: :dntknw:

Ah, rant over with now. Yesterday, after my ride home on the FJR, I then spent the evening with my Conrad Johnson in triode mode, tubes hot and glowing and a couple glasses of merlot and started the evening with Eva Cassidy and ended with Diana Krall.

 

[Kilroy]

Okay, I'm a dinosaur, at least in the stereo components arena. My Pioneer SX-737 receiver just started cracking (loud, random cracking noises independent of adjustments to the controls), through the speakers recently, and I can't isolate the cause. It is not potentiometers or faulty switches (at least not any from the front control panel). I believe my stereo is dying (bought this in 1975 so I've gotten great service from this old piece of equipment).
In this day and age of surround, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, I'm really only looking for a good replacement; any recommendation? Should I just stick with a good stereo (two channel; I've looked around a little and they are still available). I'll need multiple inputs, as I have a turntable, cassette deck, DVD and CD player currently hooked up to my old receiver.

It's been a long time since I've gone conponents shopping. Anyone have some solid advice (without blowing me out of the water with the new technologies and techno-speak). And, as an after thought, the speakers I have still sound really good, should I get new speakers too.

Any advice appreciated; thanks. Chuck

That SX737 sounds like it was just a bit older or newer than the old SX1250 I had for about 20 years. Fine receiver (160W x 2) and the guy I sold it to still has it, although I kept the Pioneer CTF9191 cassette deck that I bought new at the same time (and still can't seem to part with, even though it doesn't see any use and doesn't work that well anymore anyway...)

FWIW, I'm firmly in the camp of using two-channel for listening to music, and the surround sound for home theater. I currently use an Adcom amp and pre-amp, etc along with Polk Audio speakers (soon to be replaced with Paradigm).

Good luck...

 

[C&C]

FWIW, I'm firmly in the camp of using two-channel for listening to music, and the surround sound for home theater. I currently use an Adcom amp and pre-amp, etc along with Polk Audio speakers (soon to be replaced with Paradigm).
Good luck...

Can you do that with one reciever. I'm assuming you can by just turning on or off speakers; is that correct? (I'm with George Carlin on your observation about listening to music with two speakers 'in front of you'; as he says, "I want the performers to be on stage, and I want to be in the audience", or something like that.

Also, I'm looking at speakers too, I remember Bose and JBL's in my college days. (Bose 501's were the ticket then; I see I can get a pair of 301's for a pretty good price. Are these fairly good, relatively speaking; I know there not the thousand dollar kind.

 

[donaldb]

I see I can get a pair of 301's for a pretty good price. Are these fairly good, relatively speaking; I know there not the thousand dollar kind.

C&C, based upon your earlier post, I think these 301's will serve your needs quite well, if I recall correctly the 301's are a small bookshelf style speaker/monitor. Bose still makes good stuff.

 

[Kilroy]

FWIW, I'm firmly in the camp of using two-channel for listening to music, and the surround sound for home theater. I currently use an Adcom amp and pre-amp, etc along with Polk Audio speakers (soon to be replaced with Paradigm).
Good luck...

Can you do that with one reciever. I'm assuming you can by just turning on or off speakers; is that correct? (I'm with George Carlin on your observation about listening to music with two speakers 'in front of you'; as he says, "I want the performers to be on stage, and I want to be in the audience", or something like that.

Also, I'm looking at speakers too, I remember Bose and JBL's in my college days. (Bose 501's were the ticket then; I see I can get a pair of 301's for a pretty good price. Are these fairly good, relatively speaking; I know there not the thousand dollar kind.

I should have been more clear. I use the Adcom with my audio system and a Sony surround receiver for home theater. Two completely separate systems, one upstairs, one down.

There are plenty of opinions when it comes to Bose. Many people like them, and many don't. I bought a pair of Bose 901's Series III new in '76. Seventeen years later the drivers were wearing out. Because I was the original owner, Bose had me package up both speakers (I still had the original boxes) and ship them back, and they sent me the Series VI in their place. Pretty decent customer service. As to the speakers themselves, they were okay, but I hated having to use an active equalizer (which had to be disengaged when other speakers were also connected) to get them to sound right , and they also required pretty specific placement. In the end, that's what made me move on to something else (the Polks).

 

[C&C]

Love all the input, still shopping, thanks for your advice. You guys are dragging me into the 21th century. (I used to know what I was doing 'back in the day', I think/thought) I am learning, thanks.

 

[yanktar]

I'm no fan of Bose. After Dr. Bose died or sold out, it became a lot of hype. 901's were developed and first sold in the 60's! They were revolutionary then because their imaging is so good --they STILL place each instrument precisely.

But a year or two ago I went to a listening room (in all the malls these days) and was underwhelmed.

A wag put it:" Got no highs, got no lows, cost too much: Must be BOSE!" That actually was accurate--that's what I heard from the 901s.

Somebody mentioned B&W speakers--excellent. I like a lot of the Definitive stuff as well.

Unfortunately, stereo stores are rapidly going the way of the do-do bird. At least BestBuy has their Magnolia Room where they still have better quality stuff.

Speakers are personal--bring your favorite CDs when you go to listen. It should sound good with what YOU like! Me, my bottom line is it must sound good with classical orchetral music. I'll give up some of the Jazz/Rock quality for that--I bought B&Ws over Tannoys for that reason. The Tannoys sounded a little better with jazz but mediocre with B&Ws. I like a flat response from bass to treble, all well defined with the midrange holding clear and well-defined. I don't care for shrill, but hate muddy sound.

Heck, even bluetooth stereo headphones are cool! No more wireless headphones just for the TV. I can use the same B/Ts with my laptop, my PDA (as an MP3) or with the stereo--most come with adaptors for non-BT sources.

They even have mikes so if the PDA is also a phone....two in one!

Also, suprisingly good sound can be gotten from Tivoli radios. A Tivoli stereo radio, with their sub-woofer makes a WONDERFUL compact stereo--the sound will amaze you! Why not? It was Henry Kloss's last project. Kloss was to reasonably priced stereo what Hendrix was to rock. Kloss designed: The AR1 and AR 3A loudspeakers, the original Advent Loudspeaker, the KLH portable stereo (the tuning looks like Tivoli), Dolby-B (with Dolby), Chromium Dioxide tape, the first AFFORDABLE projection TV, and the Tivoli.