Suck it, Electrosport!

[jwhite518]

 

[mattster31]

A picture is worth a thousand words................................or at least the cost of that burnt up thing

 

[Zorlac]

I'm SO glad I didn't spring for one of those POS's.

I wonder if Ionbeam has made any progress with the different stator rewind vendor he was talking to a few months back?

 

[radman]

No mention of what he was running on that poor thing. Run any stat at max output all the time, it's eventually gonna resemble a forgotten chicken breast in a KFC frier. There's a lot of them out there that haven't cooked. Yet.

 

[slapnpop]

No mention of what he was running on that poor thing. Run any stat at max output all the time, it's eventually gonna resemble a forgotten chicken breas tin a KFC frier. There's a lot of them out there that haven't cooked. Yet.

Not true. Stators run at full output all the time, by virtue of the regulator/rectifier design. It's not like a car alternator.

The fried electrosports are more a heat and materials issue. Either the materials aren't good enough to hold up to the engine heat, or the output level is so high the temp is out of control, or some combination of the two.

 

[ionbeam]

Copied from a related thread about Jerry White's stator failure:

...Is it just me, or do we hear a lot of reports of Electrosport stator failures?

As an owner of a failed Electrosport I would have to agree, there are a lot of ES failures.

While talking with another manufacturer of stators/starters/RRs I mentioned that my Electrosport failed when it had ~40k miles on it. They told me that 40k miles was actually a very long life for an aftermarket high output stator :blink: That is something for the Gen I people to think about before upgrading(?) to a high output stator. If you are already a HO stator owner be informed that beginning around 30k miles your stator could fail at any time. Funny, there was no mention of this in the sales pitch :glare:

Any LD guys that have a lot of miles on an aftermarket HO stator should be taking a lesson from Jerry White and have a replacement stator and gasket on hand (plus some RTV for the rubber grommet for the wire feed-thru in the stator cover).

Note that this is not a quality problem or a design problem from Electrosport. This is the current (so to speak) state of technology for oil bath stators with limited room in the housing. So far nobody makes a stator that has better durability in this kind of application.

Every failed stator that I've seen has the same lobe(s) slagged. It would seem to me that this should point a path toward a more durability design.

 

[ionbeam]

...The fried electrosports are more a heat and materials issue. Either the materials aren't good enough to hold up to the engine heat, or the output level is so high the temp is out of control, or some combination of the two.

Another major player is the coil winding. A manufacturing challenge is to wind the heavy wire without damaging the wire coating or stretching the wire. A second winding challenge is to find the optimum path to actually wind the wire on the stator lobes. This is a bit of art as well as a math problem. My business does wire winding as part of our products assembly and this is what actually gives our product the 'magic smoke' that our competitors don't have. Proper wire winding will allow you to realize the full potential of the materials used. A bad winding job will compromise both reliability and performance.

 

[radman]

Not true. Stators run at full output all the time, by virtue of the regulator/rectifier design. It's not like a car alternator.The fried electrosports are more a heat and materials issue. Either the materials aren't good enough to hold up to the engine heat, or the output level is so high the temp is out of control, or some combination of the two.

Yup. Keep forgetting that part. Glad I only paid $75 for mine, and removed a perfectly good (and on hand) stocker.

 

[dcarver]

Hi Iggie! (saw you lurking)

The consensus, across a variety of boards (FJR and DL 650 Suzuki) is the same - the ES's suck. Too bad I bought a spare for WABS. Where there's smoke, there's an ElectroSport nearby? :bleh: :banned: :mega_shok: hno-smiley02:

 

[Ignacio]

Hi Iggie! (saw you lurking)
The consensus, across a variety of boards (FJR and DL 650 Suzuki) is the same - the ES's suck. Too bad I bought a spare for WABS. Where there's smoke, there's an ElectroSport nearby? :bleh: :banned: :mega_shok: hno-smiley02:

Hey, I'm just glad all these suck...early adopters figured this all out. I bought one and left it in my shop for 6 months, and about two weeks for the '07 IBR decided to not put it in. Smartest thing I ever did.

Hell, I even pawned it off on an unsuspecting board admin that owes me for it.

I'm increasingly thinking managing watts judiciously is the longer term answer...or maybe upgrading to an OEM Gen 2 stator and needed parts (just talking with St. George and he's done that)

 

[squeezer]

I'm increasingly thinking managing watts judiciously is the longer term answer...or maybe upgrading to an OEM Gen 2 stator and needed parts (just talking with St. George and he's done that)

Hey, first I've heard that this could be done. I'd beg for a write-up, but I guess he's busy for a week or two.

EDIT: There's also a VFR rider on STN complaining he got a total of 1/2 mile out of two Electrosport stators. As of 2 weeks ago, he was still waiting for a refund on stator #2.

 

[Constant Mesh]

"Not true. Stators run at full output all the time, by virtue of the regulator/rectifier design. It's not like a car alternator."

slapnpop, that's not totally true.

The AC voltage generated by the stator increases with engine rpm. To keep a constant DC output voltage the regulator has to control the stator currents. For a given rpm there is a specific average stator current which corresponds to an output of 14 volts.

For a given rpm if the system load is less than the regulator's output then the average stator current will be constant, controlled by the regulator. This is the scenario you describe.

But if the system load exceeds the regulator's output the voltage will sag and the stator currents will be larger than the regulated value for that rpm.

The stator currents will automatically increase with engine rpm up to about 5K rpm. So even if you have no accessories the stator windings will get hotter for higher engine speeds.

Once the voltage begins to sag you're shortening the life of the stator winding insulation. Running at higher average rpm shortens the insulation life. The two together = a double whammy.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

"Not true. Stators run at full output all the time, by virtue of the regulator/rectifier design. It's not like a car alternator."
slapnpop, that's not totally true.

I posted this in another part of the Forum (IBR failures):

I think?, tho, you can be trying (with accessories) to extract even more than maximum -- that's when you start taking from the battery and voltage starts to fall. Eventually, the alternator (stator) is trying to handle way more (current) than it was designed for.Remember, too -- max out-put starts around 5,000 rpm. Running at less rpm means a less proficient alternator. IMO, high load (lots of high-wattage accessories) and low rpm (below 5K-ish) is a recipe for stator disaster

So, I'm trying to get my little pea brain around this (and, we may have gone over this before?).

The AC voltage generated by the stator increases with engine rpm. To keep a constant DC output voltage the regulator has to control the stator currents. For a given rpm there is a specific average stator current which corresponds to an output of 14 volts.

Less than 5K rpm + high-wattage load = high stator current? Do you agree?

IOW, doesn't the current vary (with rpm) to keep a constant 14V output with either max load (or, max load +)?

For a given rpm if the system load is less than the regulator's output then the average stator current will be constant, controlled by the regulator. This is the scenario you describe.But if the system load exceeds the regulator's output the voltage will sag and the stator currents will be larger than the regulated value for that rpm.

The stator currents will automatically increase with engine rpm up to about 5K rpm. So even if you have no accessories the stator windings will get hotter for higher engine speeds.

Won't the voltage increase with rpm, too?

Once the voltage begins to sag you're shortening the life of the stator winding insulation. Running at higher average rpm shortens the insulation life. The two together = a double whammy.

I guess, I'm having trouble with high rpm being bad for the alternator -- since that's where max out-put is? It seems to me that below optimum rpm would cause higher stator current (given the same load). So, even with low load, higher rpm is preferred?

I hesitate to ask you to bear the burden of explanation (I may just be too dense...? :huh: ) But, thanks if you try....

 

[slapnpop]

You all are right that the output varies with RPM. I should have said that it always outputs it's maximum potential at any given RPM. The output is directly dependant on the magnetic field and windings, not the system voltage. Saying that low system voltage makes the stator work harder would be the same as saying an AC motor puts out more torque with lower system voltage.

Note that this is not a quality problem or a design problem from Electrosport. This is the current (so to speak) state of technology for oil bath stators with limited room in the housing.

I would disagree. I replace a lot of failed electrosports in the off-road world. The stators I deal with don't fail like the electrosports. Not to say I never see a failure, but usually not like this. This leads me to conclude that either the manufacturing quality is low, or the system isn't designed properly. It should last the life of the machine. If the are trying to pull to much from the system and generating excess heat, they should be up front about the life expectancy.

 

[kaitsdad]

Every failed stator that I've seen has the same lobe(s) slagged. It would seem to me that this should point a path toward a more durability design.

Ya know, I've been thinking about this very fact at length...

And the fact that it's cooled by an oil bath. Hmmm....

 

[Zorlac]

Every failed stator that I've seen has the same lobe(s) slagged. It would seem to me that this should point a path toward a more durability design.

Ya know, I've been thinking about this very fact at length...

And the fact that it's cooled by an oil bath a hot oil bath. Hmmm....

FIFY