Sudden 2014 FJR1300A starting, running problem. Canister issue?

[singtheblues2]

My FJR was running and starting perfectly until a couple of days ago. After installing a Chad top box and mount I started the cold bike for a ride and it promptly stalled. I re-started, but it didn't want to idle well, and seemed to be missing and running rough. After applying throttle is seemed to run up OK, but is still starting and idling poorly. I can't believe the new top box would have anything to do with this. The kickstand kill switch seems to be working properly. I suspected bad gas and filled the tank. This made it worse. It would barely start and I had to keep giving it throttle to keep it running.

after looking around I wonder if the charcoal canister could be the problem, assuming I have one. I don't think my bike is a California model but purchased it privately in Florida and don't really know. Can some of the great people here offer ideas of what is going on? Does my bike have a canister and could this be full of gas and causing this?
I forgot to mention, that after sitting all day in a very warm garage, the bike started and ran much better, and it will idle now, but is still not running as well as it did.


Sincere thanks to all!

 

[RossKean]

Hot day? Parked in the sun for some time?
If the canister is saturated with fuel, it will start reluctantly and run rough for maybe a few minutes and then run normally. Easy to spot the canister if the bike has one - mounted behind the "triangle" at the front, below the radiator. The front cowling has an extra hole at the bottom to accommodate a drain hose that comes from the canister. Note: The drain hose could be kinked inside the cowl and not through the opening. That could create problems.

Note: My 2007 was purchased privately from a guy who bought it in Connecticut. Turns out it was a California model so no guarantee that yours isn't just because it did not originate in CA.

See this parts fiche and you should be able to tell if it is a California model.
https://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oemparts/a/yam/528698c5f8700230dc2a74a8/fuel-tank
Get a flashlight and check for crud inside your tank.
Also, some early Gen III bikes had some issues with throttle position sensors (TPS). You might do a search for this.
Check that plug wires are secure.

Can't imagine how it could have had anything to do with the installation of the top box.

Good luck.

 

[SkooterG]

My riding buddy experienced symptoms similar to yours on his '14 FJR. Turned out it was the battery. A new one solved all the issues. But yes, a charcoal canister on a Kali model on a hot day could cause those symptoms too.

 

[RossKean]

Turned out it was the battery.

Good point. Weak battery (or loose terminal connections) can cause some strange operating issues as well.

 

[Mcarver351]

Mine did the same thing two weeks ago. I drove to Home Depot to pick up some nails and when I started the bike to leave, it turned over slowly and would hardly run. I checked the battery voltage and it was shot. A new battery and she is running perfect.

 

[singtheblues2]

Thanks for the suggestions. Apparently I don't have a Cali bike, I don't see any canister below the radiator. I do smell gas which may be a clue.

 

[singtheblues2]

The battery seems fine, it cranks right over, no variation with the lights or anything but I will keep it in mind

 

[mcatrophy]

Thanks for the suggestions. Apparently I don't have a Cali bike, I don't see any canister below the radiator. I do smell gas which may be a clue.

You won't see the canister, it's hidden within the fairing.

The easiest way to tell is to look under the fairing and look for mounting bolts. In the picture, taken from underneath the (very dirty) bike, the front is towards the top left. There is a single screw at the front that holds the two fairing halves together.

With canister models there are two bolts further back. Behind those, and in the bike's right-hand fairing, is a hole. In the early incarnations of the canister, this hole has a breather coming through. Later ones, the breather is fed back up to the inlet spaghetti under the tank (as it is on my bike).

It's those two bolts that are the absolute identifier, if they are there you have one, if not you don't.

(Click on image for larger view)

 

[RossKean]

You won't see the canister, it's hidden within the fairing.

The easiest way to tell is to look under the fairing and look for mounting bolts. In the picture, taken from underneath the (very dirty) bike, the front is towards the top left. There is a single screw at the front that holds the two fairing halves together.

With canister models there are two bolts further back. Behind those, and in the bike's right-hand fairing, is a hole. In the early incarnations of the canister, this hole has a breather coming through. Later ones, the breather is fed back up to the inlet spaghetti under the tank (as it is on my bike).

It's those two bolts that are the absolute identifier, if they are there you have one, if not you don't.

(Click on image for larger view)

Good photo showing the hose NOT through the fairing hole. (Kinked inside could be a problem.)
The canister can be seen behind the "triangle" as long as you know what to look for (as per the fiche and previous description). I forgot the three bolts vs just one for the version without the canister.

 

[SkooterG]

The battery seems fine, it cranks right over, no variation with the lights or anything but I will keep it in mind

Just because it *seems* fine, doesn't mean it is.

 

[singtheblues2]

Good photo showing the hose NOT through the fairing hole. (Kinked inside could be a problem.)
The canister can be seen behind the "triangle" as long as you know what to look for (as per the fiche and previous description). I forgot the three bolts vs just one for the version without the canister.

Thanks, this clarified where to look. I do not have a canister. Unfortunately I also don't know where to look next. Probably some basics would be a good place to start, make sure plugs and wires are OK. The problem appeared suddenly, so there may be something that came loose. As an update, the bike is starting ok, and runs up to full RPM no problem. it still idles a little rough and is a little rough at low RPM. I do smell gas occasionally making me wonder if there is a venting problem.

 

[RossKean]

Unfortunately I also don't know where to look next.

Did you check for crud in your fuel tank?
Verify plug wire connections?
Did you read up on Gen III TPS (throttle position sensor) issues? Couple threads, below. Lots of others.
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/anatomy-of-gen-iii-fly-by-wire-tps.169700/https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/2014-stumble-on-accel.167846/Worth checking for vacuum leaks.
Assume no error codes?
Assume air filter is OK? (It would have to be REALLY bad to cause this sort of problem.)
It is still worth making sure battery connections are secure. Might still be worth having the battery load tested.
Did you try running with the tank lid ajar? (small possibility of tank vent problem)

Did you do any work on the bike lately other than installing the top box?
How does it ride? Better or worse under higher acceleration? (Might be indicative of plugged injectors or fuel pump issue.)
Have you tried fuel additives (i,e, Yamaha Ring Free or even Seafoam)?

Lots of other things to check I'm sure.

 

[singtheblues2]

Did you check for crud in your fuel tank?
Verify plug wire connections?
Did you read up on Gen III TPS (throttle position sensor) issues? Couple threads, below. Lots of others.
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/anatomy-of-gen-iii-fly-by-wire-tps.169700/https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/2014-stumble-on-accel.167846/Worth checking for vacuum leaks.
Assume no error codes?
Assume air filter is OK? (It would have to be REALLY bad to cause this sort of problem.)
It is still worth making sure battery connections are secure. Might still be worth having the battery load tested.
Did you try running with the tank lid ajar? (small possibility of tank vent problem)

Did you do any work on the bike lately other than installing the top box?
How does it ride? Better or worse under higher acceleration? (Might be indicative of plugged injectors or fuel pump issue.)
Have you tried fuel additives (i,e, Yamaha Ring Free or even Seafoam)?

Lots of other things to check I'm sure.

these are all great suggestions, thanks. I will be working through them

 

[SkooterG]

I am still going with the battery. Why not eliminate that possibility first?

 

[Pjotr]

Thanks, this clarified where to look. I do not have a canister. Unfortunately I also don't know where to look next. Probably some basics would be a good place to start, make sure plugs and wires are OK. The problem appeared suddenly, so there may be something that came loose. As an update, the bike is starting ok, and runs up to full RPM no problem. it still idles a little rough and is a little rough at low RPM. I do smell gas occasionally making me wonder if there is a venting problem.

Your update, “the bike is starting ok, and runs up to full RPM no problem. it still idles a little rough and is a little rough at low RPM. I do smell gas occasionally” is exactly similar to my fjr from 2013 recent behavior. I was adviced to use petrolsystem cleaner due to use of 10%Petrol. Albeit that it certainly didn’t hurt, the erratic idling is still happening. Would be interested to learn what you did to solve the problem.

 

[singtheblues2]

My FJR was running and starting perfectly until a couple of days ago. After installing a Chad top box and mount I started the cold bike for a ride and it promptly stalled. I re-started, but it didn't want to idle well, and seemed to be missing and running rough. After applying throttle is seemed to run up OK, but is still starting and idling poorly. I can't believe the new top box would have anything to do with this. The kickstand kill switch seems to be working properly. I suspected bad gas and filled the tank. This made it worse. It would barely start and I had to keep giving it throttle to keep it running.

after looking around I wonder if the charcoal canister could be the problem, assuming I have one. I don't think my bike is a California model but purchased it privately in Florida and don't really know. Can some of the great people here offer ideas of what is going on? Does my bike have a canister and could this be full of gas and causing this?
I forgot to mention, that after sitting all day in a very warm garage, the bike started and ran much better, and it will idle now, but is still not running as well as it did.


Sincere thanks to all!

I wanted to follow up on my thread. My bike is NOT a California model so no canister. After simply riding the bike and running a couple tanks of gas through it the problem seems to have fixed itself. I can only speculate that the bike had been sitting in a garage for a long time and maybe there was some gunk in the tank or injectors that finally cleared out. Nice to have a self-fixing problem for a change. Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[rbentnail]

In your leisurely time, when you have some extra money, I suggest you buy yourself a throttle position sensor. The Gen3 TPS induced problem is known to come and go as you say only to return later with a vengeance. Many folks have gone round and round with this, even testing it "by the book" says it's good but in several cases replacing it repaired the problem.

 

[RossKean]

In your leisurely time, when you have some extra money, I suggest you buy yourself a throttle position sensor. The Gen3 TPS induced problem is known to come and go as you say only to return later with a vengeance. Many folks have gone round and round with this, even testing it "by the book" says it's good but in several cases replacing it repaired the problem.

^^ I suggested the TPS as a possibility earlier and while the problem now appears to be "fixed", I agree with Russ that it is worthwhile to keep it in mind if this happens again. If the TPS is bad, the issues WILL return. I am always suspicious when something fixes itself without any intervention.

 

[Wizard37]

I had the exact symptoms of my 2007 and found cleaning out the vacuum lines (negative pressure hoses) to the air intake pressure sensor, also replaced the Throttle position sensor, solved the problem completely. I rinsed the hoses in gas and got a lot of crud out. Had 86,565 miles on. Some early signs were low idle and poor catching on start. The gas milage started to degrade as well, not much but looking back it was there. Probably should have put new hoses on, but it was back to working and there was riding to be done. Hope this helps

 

[RossKean]

I had the exact symptoms of my 2007 and found cleaning out the vacuum lines (negative pressure hoses) to the air intake pressure sensor,

As far as I know, this is an issue that is unique to Gen II bikes. It happened to me as well as a number of others.
It generally throws a fault code 14. Easy fix and instantly solves the problem.

Documented Here

I have not heard of this happening on Gen III+ (or Gen I) but not saying it isn't possible.

Edit: Gen I, not Gen II as originally posted