The '06 Question No One's Asked

[RadioHowie]

Just got back from depositing my paycheck in the bank and decided to hit the downtown branch instead of my usual going-home-branch, simply to beat the 2pm deadline for getting the deposit posted.

The downside of the downtown branch is about 10 traffic lights and terrible traffic. Stopping at all those red lights made me wonder something...a question no one has asked yet, concerning the '06 E-Shift....

How do you "find" neutral?

Think about it...neutral is NOT a stop between 1st and 2nd...it's a slight detent between 1st and 2nd. Under normal operation, you don't shift from 1st to Neutral and then to 2nd...it's 1st to 2nd in one action. Finding neutral is a bit of black magic and Minnesota Fats-finesse all wrapped into one.

So, how does E-shift find neutral? Is there a "neutral" button? Or does one have to "shift" from 1st to Neutral to 2nd in two button pushes?

Maybe it's engaging both upshift and downshift paddles at once and the ECU finds neutral for you.

Wouldn't stop me from buying a 1300AE, but did make me wonder.

 

[Randy]

If all of the transmission internals are the same, I would imaging one would find neutral like they do now, with the foot lever. Perhaps the system is programmed so that if you are sitting at 0 MPH and in 1st gear, a shift up with either the button or lever would automatically take you to neutral? But, if anything other than 0 MPH, it goes to 2nd. Just a theory.

 

[RadioHowie]

Good point...make it speed-relative.

0mph-upshift=neutral

>0mph-upshift=2nd

Ain't 'puters wonderful?

 

[tstaff]

Good question, however i don't believe there will be a neutral position to find. think about how the bike will have to start out from any stop, something (possibly speedo related) must disengage the clutch to make a stop & start with no rider input. This is the part of the E model i would like to know more about. I've already ordered my 06 standard shift model so it won't effect me, but if i were to consider the E model i would want to know more about the clutch engagement (slippage) at starts & disengagement at stops over how many milliseconds it takes between shifts.

 

[Getsum]

I was thinking about the same thing and about the loss of clutch control. I'm really hesitant about this idea, but I'll withhold judgment until I learn more about. What about simple things like being stopped on a hill, can the bike be at a complete stop while in 1st gear?

 

[RadioHowie]

I think you're wrong...from all information available, the tranny's are identical. Neutral is built in.

As far as disengaging the clutch at a stop, if it's done on the Feejer like it's done on the paddle-shifter cars, it would have to be speed/rpm sensitive. 0mph + <1500rpm = disengaged clutch.

Raise the rpms slowly, the clutch engages slowly.

Dump the throttle=dump the clutch. I guarantee you the magazines will report you CAN wheelie a 1300AE.

You certainly can lay rubber with a paddle-shift BMW or MR2...I've seen it done, and believe me, the MR2 ain't gonna spin its wheels simply because of it's monumental torque. :rolf:

 

[RadioHowie]

I was thinking about the same thing and about the loss of clutch control. I'm really hesitant about this idea, but I'll withhold judgment until I learn more about. What about simple things like being stopped on a hill, can the bike be at a complete stop while in 1st gear?

Yes.

That's the beauty of auto-clutch vehicles. They act just like those with levers or pedals. It's just a computer pushing the pedal or pulling the lever, not the driver.

 

[Silverbullet]

Seems to me that even there has to a "neutral" postion. Imagine your bike idleing on the side stand, and (picture any possible scenario here) and the throttle gets blipped....Can't have the bike just driving off by itself can you?? :lol:

 

[RadioHowie]

I don't know about your FJR, but mine shuts down when I put the sidestand down while it's in gear.

 

[Silverbullet]

Exactly, so, if there is no neutral, the bike can only be started on the centerstand? Unless you are sitting on it of course...Not likely in my opinion.

 

[RadioHowie]

Who says there's no neutral?

My question was "how do you find neutral?"

With the standard tranny, you gotta "hunt" for it.

How does the auto-clutch do it? No one knows...yet.

But there IS a neutral. It's the same gear box.

 

[ionbeam]

There IS a neutral. I am sure that there will be a bunch of software interlocks to be sure you are in neutral such as when the side stand down and starting. Finding neutral will be just like any other model FJR. Click down, green light flashes as you hit first, click up and the green light will flash as you go too far and hit 2nd. Fiddle, fiddle and then you get the reward of the green light. Only this time it means stop and not go.

Alan

 

[Silverbullet]

That would be my guess as well Alan. I am interested in seeing how you find it with the hand controls.

 

[RadioHowie]

I'm beginning to wonder about the technical "expertise" of many of the posters on this and other 1300AE threads.

Is it so difficult to "get your head" around the idea of an electro-hydraulic clutch?

So many think it's an automatic transmission. It's not.

It's not a CVT. It's not a centrifugal clutch.

Maybe this is magnifying what I already think...that most folks really don't have a clue how basic automotive designs actually work.

 

[Jammer]

Well, I'm sure it works just fine - I've been waiting for this to come to bikes after Honda did it on their ATVs years ago. While it is new, and we so-called progressive thinkers start to whine about this stuff (I'm starting to better understand old Brit-bike lovers from the 50s-60s, & how the 69 Honda 750 wasn't a real bike, blah, blah, blah - we're just a newer generation doing the same thing as they did), I'm sure Yamaha has it all figured out. And there will be a bunch of guys not buying the first year til they "get the problems worked out," etc. The future is here, until, of course, the new future arrives in a few more short years. My philosophy with bikes, as most things, is, always go with the newest/latest technolgy, & it will stay current longer.

Which, again, begs the question, of why I have my 89 ZX10 in the garage still sitting beside my 05 FJR. In reality, I wanted a Kawi ST, but got tired of waiting. When the sales guy asked my why I didn't just buy a Concours, I replied "I already have a 16-yr-old Kawi in my garage right now; I don't want to buy a 20-yr-old one!"

 

[twowheelnut]

Maybe this is magnifying what I already think...that most folks really don't have a clue how basic automotive designs actually work.

That's cuz we're talkin' about motorcycles and not cars, here Ace... And since this is a fairly unique item to the street bike world, we all have some questions, OK? Now, if you would like to give us your wisdom on all things 'automotive', the front of the classroom is currently unoccupied, the blackboard is clean and there's a fresh box of chalk. Otherwise, I for one, would prefer you cease insinuating that the mechanical intellect of this community is below that of yours...

 

[Rentaroo]

One thing I miss most about my ZRX is the "positive neutral finder" feature of the transmission. Maybe Yamaha will design a feature similar to this with the electronic shift version of the FJR. That feature, in combination with a speed-sensitive component could allow you to select neutral while sitting still, regardless of the gear you're in when you stop.

Slow down for a stop, electro-actuated clutch engages to disconnect transmission from rear wheel, at complete stop, shift up/down as appropriate and there's neutral. Hit button for 1st gear and clutch acts appropriately, apply throttle and off you go.

Simple....really.....

 

[RadioHowie]

Maybe this is magnifying what I already think...that most folks really don't have a clue how basic automotive designs actually work.

That's cuz we're talkin' about motorcycles and not cars, here Ace... And since this is a fairly unique item to the street bike world, we all have some questions, OK? Now, if you would like to give us your wisdom on all things 'automotive', the front of the classroom is currently unoccupied, the blackboard is clean and there's a fresh box of chalk. Otherwise, I for one, would prefer you cease insinuating that the mechanical intellect of this community is below that of yours...

Sorry to offend, but the misconceptions about this being an automatic transmission are being repeated over and over and over.

I wasn't by any means trying to sound superior, but the basic function of a clutch is the same, whether it's in a bike or in a car, hence my use of the term "automotive".

I also was NOT referring to "this community" as you put it, but people in general.

I really believe most folks have NO idea how their vehicles work. They simply turn a key and "go".

And there HAVE been a lot of repetitive statements centered on the premise "I prefer to do my own shifting." That would make anyone wonder if they're "reading the fine print" or just really don't understand the relationship between the clutch and the transmission.

Sorry if I seemed like as *** about this. If I really meant to be an ***, I would say something like "if you're offended by this, then you're exactly one of the folks I'm talkin' about."

 

[twowheelnut]

Oh, I wasn't offended, merely annoyed. Thank goodness for smiley faces, otherwise I might take that last comment the wrong way. <_< And, I really wish you would consider a stint at the blackboard - I have all these spitballs ready to go... :****: