To Cartridge Or Not To Cartridge . . . That Is The Question

[VanHarlan]

So my 07 is approaching 40,000 miles with the stock suspension and it's noticeably hammered. I've fiddled with adjustments to the point I don't think there's much left to squeeze out of her settings.

I've priced out the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 cartridges with new springs and a new Penske-8983 rear set up. Prices are $1400 and $925 respectively. I would be shipping the forks and installing the rear shock myself. Total about $2400 with shipping, etc . . .

The other curious alternative is EPM in NJ . . . Klaus is a highly respected suspension guru . . . he suggest a HyperPro 3D rear shock set up for $888 + install (I can ride it in) and only new fork springs for $160. Labor is about $300 . . . so total about $1400 . . . plus 2-3 days of lost work . . .(I'm self employed and time off is preciously protected.)

I asked Klaus about the stock cartridges which he tends to believe are fine and the only weakness in the FJR front end is the soft springing. Deep down I'm not thoroughly convinced that's true . . .

I also question whether I would really be able to tell the difference between the two front end set ups . . . with new cartridge & springs . . . or with new springs only. Granted one can do a lot with new springs and fork oil.

My FJR is the first bike I've ever bought new and I've always said probably the only one I would never sell or willingly part with . . .

Lastly, the AK-20 kit is modular and can be moved to another bike should I do something crazy like sell the FJR some day.

The bottom line question is "Are new cartridges really worth the extra $1000?"

I'm really leaning toward going "all-in" with the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 and Penske-8983 unless Klaus is really correct and there's a general attitude that the stock FJR cartridges are fine.

Help? Thoughts?

 

[Fred W]

I disagree somewhat with Klaus. The damping in the front forks is sub optimal and can definitely improve by re-valving. That said, a stiffer spring and fresh oil, bushings and seals will be a big step in the right direction.

If you were willing to do the work you could get a full kit to do your forks from GP for around $500 all in. That would include new compression and rebound valves as well as a set of stiffer springs.

They (GP) also sell a replacement set of 25mm cartridges, which lessens the effort to install (not much) but then you are priced back up to the AK-20 (actually higher but you'd have 25mm dampers).

Why not take it one step at a time? Go with the spring and refresh now with the shock and see how you like it. The same springs will still be used if you decide to re-valve the damping later on. Maybe you'll have more time in the future and feel like a DIY revalve?

 

[Biquer]

I don't know. But I can tell you that I changed my fork springs to Ohlins and added an Ohlins shock to the rear of my '08 at 50,000 miles and I doubt if it could be any better.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I'm really leaning toward going "all-in" with the Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 and Penske-8983 unless Klaus is really correct and there's a general attitude that the stock FJR cartridges are fine.

Help? Thoughts?

The Penske 8983 is an excellent shock and very price competitive in the aftermarket alternatives. You may also find that the GEN3 shock will meet your needs for about $400. Klaus is correct that the FJR cartridges are fine, however you are not going to get the full benefit of stiffer springs unless you change the damping in those cartridges and the best alternative to do that is to buy new damping pistons from GP Suspension.

I see Fred beat me to a response......

 

[VanHarlan]

I was just looking at the GP Suspension alternative too . . . I missed out on the recent Group Buy . . . they seem to be a favorite as well. Perhaps I will call them for pricing too.

My reluctance in only doing the front springs is the fear of not doing it right the first time and later wishing I had.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I was just looking at the GP Suspension alternative too . . . I missed out on the recent Group Buy . . . they seem to be a favorite as well. Perhaps I will call them for pricing too.
My reluctance in only doing the front springs is the fear of not doing it right the first time and later wishing I had.

If you only change the springs and are not happy with the result you really have not lost anything except the fork oil that you will have to replace. Most upgrade to 1.0 kg springs and you can keep those springs if you later decide to go with GP Suspension or someone else. Since you are in New York, you should contact Nick Stolten at https://www.stoltecmoto.com/, he is a very good suspension guru and a GP Suspension dealer.

 

[El Cajone]

It's probably not too late to get in on the group buy prices for GP. Just call them up and ask; they'll almost certainly give you the same deal. They did it for me when I upgraded my suspension a few years ago.

Just to put in a plug for GP, the upgrade (front forks kit and Penske 8983) totally changed the handling characteristics of my FJR. Really turned it into a true sport touring bike.

 

[HotRodZilla]

I did heavier RaceTech springs and RaceTech Gold Valves a few years ago. The difference up front was phenomenal. I've ridden a few bikes with other suspension set ups, and I don't know that I can tell much difference. Maybe I'm ham fisted, or maybe I'd have to be a way better rider to tell, but for the minimal amount of money I spent, it was totally worth it.

Call them and give them your info and they'll recommend a spring weight. I went with their recommendation. My tech at Yamaha did the work for probably $200 with new bushings, and all.

 

[MCRIDER007]

It's probably not too late to get in on the group buy prices for GP. Just call them up and ask; they'll almost certainly give you the same deal. They did it for me when I upgraded my suspension a few years ago.

When Dave Hodges owned GP Suspension the FJR group buy prices were actually in effect all year long for FJR owners and could even be applied to other brands. The annual group buy was just an opportunity for him to promote his products and make some sales during his slow period. I think that has all changed since KGF bought GP Suspension.

 

[BigOgre]

Why not take it one step at a time? Go with the spring and refresh now with the shock and see how you like it. The same springs will still be used if you decide to re-valve the damping later on. Maybe you'll have more time in the future and feel like a DIY revalve?

Tying into this, remember that your Penske will need to be refreshed at around the two year mark (guessing - looking at your mileage). Maybe then you can decide if you want to upgrade further.

 

[VanHarlan]

Why not take it one step at a time? Go with the spring and refresh now with the shock and see how you like it. The same springs will still be used if you decide to re-valve the damping later on. Maybe you'll have more time in the future and feel like a DIY revalve?

Tying into this, remember that your Penske will need to be refreshed at around the two year mark (guessing - looking at your mileage). Maybe then you can decide if you want to upgrade further.

That's a worthy consideration . . . if the springs are the same that are used on the AK-20 kit for example then I could go the extra mile late and add the cartridge if needed.

 

[Fred W]

Yes, springs will be the same. You may need a different length spacer, but that is trivial. 1.0 kg/mm is a good target for your spring weight for solo riding. If you plan a lot of 2-up you might go 1.05 or 1.10 max.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Take the $2400.00 and slap it down on a 2014 if available or 2015. In two years you will be doing this all again. If your not doing the work yourself it gets expensive. By that time you will have 75K on the bike. Is it worth it at that point. If you use it for business write it off. it's a win,win.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Dave

 

[MCRIDER007]

Yes, springs will be the same. You may need a different length spacer, but that is trivial. 1.0 kg/mm is a good target for your spring weight for solo riding. If you plan a lot of 2-up you might go 1.05 or 1.10 max.

Why would you put heavier springs on the front if you plan to ride 2-up? All of the passengers weight is behind the shock which increases the sag at the back end but makes the front end lighter (ever notice how easy it is to lift the front wheel when you have a passenger). If you are a very heavy rider than a third to a half of your weight is going to be transferred to the front end and that would justify heavier springs.

 

[McRide]

I did the new springs and 8983 shock on an 04 with about (at that time) 50k miles. The difference was amazing. Although I considered the traxxion package, the springs/oil/shock upgrades were such an improvement that it seemed not necessary to go 'all in'. Like McRider007 says, start with these simple 1st steps... you're going in the right direction and the only duplicated cost is the oil.

 

[PhilJet09]

I did the GP springs and 25mm upgrade last year. The difference is amazing. Now I have to re-think my FJR replacement schedule.

 

[VanHarlan]

Take the $2400.00 and slap it down on a 2014 if available or 2015. In two years you will be doing this all again. If your not doing the work yourself it gets expensive. By that time you will have 75K on the bike. Is it worth it at that point. If you use it for business write it off. it's a win,win.
Just my 2 cents worth,

Dave

With 3 bikes in the garage I'm not racking up as much mileage on the FJR as I was a couple years ago when it was my only bike. I'm hoping to pick up a wr250r later this year too . . . Although I've thought about a new FJR - and who doesn't like that idea - I feel like I'd have to start farkling all over . . . I think last season my time was split between two bikes almost 50/50 as I'm becoming a big fan of dual-sport riding in the PA mountains & forest.

I've been doing most of my own work - but I've never tackled forks before. It might be time to learn.

I think I'm leaning toward the graduated approach - new Penske rear shock and new springs and oil in the forks. It sounds like that alone will make a dramatic difference - if I outrun that then I can step up to a new set of cartridges later on.

 

[leclairk]

I just went through this 6 months ago, how can I get the best bang for my buck. I also felt I would just do springs in the front and new shock in the back. I called GP suspension to see what they would recommend. They said the valving in the front forks are pretty bad in an FJR and they really encouraged me to re-valve the forks. I realize they are a business so of course they encouraged me to spend more money but it really was not that much more. Thanks to this forum I was informed of the black friday 25% off sale they do each year. I did a Penske 8975, new front springs and re-valve kit. Installed it was $1450. Without the sale It would have been near $1850. Highly recommend GP suspension and highly recommend the re-valve. My .02

 

[Fred W]

Yes, springs will be the same. You may need a different length spacer, but that is trivial. 1.0 kg/mm is a good target for your spring weight for solo riding. If you plan a lot of 2-up you might go 1.05 or 1.10 max.

Why would you put heavier springs on the front if you plan to ride 2-up? All of the passengers weight is behind the shock which increases the sag at the back end but makes the front end lighter (ever notice how easy it is to lift the front wheel when you have a passenger). If you are a very heavy rider than a third to a half of your weight is going to be transferred to the front end and that would justify heavier springs.

That is a good question. Here's my thinking on it, tell me where I'm wrong...

While statically the passenger weight will be primarily supported by the rear shock springs, it will not dynamically be suspended by the rear only. The front forks do not just respond to vertical (gravitational) input from the undulating road surface, they also respond to the forward vector of inertial force riding forwards into the bumps. Since the total weight of the riders, luggage, bike and gear will be increased, with the same fork spring rate the forks would travel more over a particular bump amplitude.

I believe that the suspension springs' rates should not be selected to achieve a certain ride height alone, but rather to achieve a particular amount of suspension travel (over the expected terrain). Counter to the thinking of some folks who believe the stiffer the better so the suspension doesn't move as much and change the bike's attitude, I think that the optimum spring weight would be one that allows the suspension to move the maximum, entire available travel when used over the worst case terrain without bottoming (or topping) out.

If a particular weight fork springs allowed full stroke on the worst case bumps, adding more weight anywhere on the bike would cause the same springs to bottom out. Yes, you could dial up increased compression damping to over come that tendency, but that would not be optimum since it will also harshen the ride over smaller bumps.

It may be that 1.0kg/mm is already stiffer than my definition of optimum, in which case there may be no need to increase the spring rate any higher.