TWN's Poll

[charismaticmegafauna]

That's not fair: I'm an old-fart and prefer my bikes a little on the "hand-crank" side. Therefor I want to use only the brake I select and in the amount I prefer. But, I've ridden with friends who've really benefitted from linked brakes. A friend with a VFR said (when asked how long it took him to get used to LBs), "immediately." He was sort of a noob and prolly didn't even know he had them. Another story: my riding partner once rode a Guzzi w/LBs and I'd often wait 'till the last minute to stop (look like I was going to run the yellow) and then stop quite quickly. This can be bad for someone keying-off another rider. I was always impressed how the Guzzi would just stop, without drama, even tho I'm pretty sure she had to dynamite the rear brake. All-in-all, they're prolly a good thing -- still, I want a choice. Should I, then, vote once for Yes and once for No??

 

[twowheelnut]

Unfair? What part of Yes, No or Can't say, don't you get?

 

[BugR]

Guzzi's stop quickly?

Is that because they have linked brakes?

or

They fit Brembo's as standard equipment?

I'm thinking the latter.

 

[azbikergirl]

Seems to me that if you don't favor linked brakes, even if you're evenly divided, then No is the most appropriate answer.

 

[rdfrantz]

That's not fair: I'm an old-fart and prefer my bikes a little on the "hand-crank" side. Therefor I want to use only the brake I select and in the amount I prefer. But, I've ridden with friends who've really benefitted from linked brakes. A friend with a VFR said (when asked how long it took him to get used to LBs), "immediately." He was sort of a noob and prolly didn't even know he had them. Another story: my riding partner once rode a Guzzi w/LBs and I'd often wait 'till the last minute to stop (look like I was going to run the yellow) and then stop quite quickly. This can be bad for someone keying-off another rider. I was always impressed how the Guzzi would just stop, without drama, even tho I'm pretty sure she had to dynamite the rear brake. All-in-all, they're prolly a good thing -- still, I want a choice. Should I, then, vote once for Yes and once for No??

I know having two or three or four things going on at the same time about braking can be confusing.

But, let's get at least one aspect of braking straight:

Linked Brakes do not stop a bike more quickly or in a shorter distance than Non-linked Brakes for a given bike.

Secondly - Why the above is true:

Linked brakes cause both front and rear brakes to be activated when one, the other, or either brake lever/pedal is pressed - With less force than if both levers were pressed !!

Except for some BMW models.

Evem with those BMW models, fastest stops occur when both levers are pressed - because there can be a delay in activation of the "other end's brakes" when pressing only one lever.

ABS is a separate matter.

Best wishes.

 

[Toecutter]

I mean, it's not like we have a choice or anything with the new models. From what I understand, the back is linked to the front but not vice versa. So, grabbing the front just gives you front, but grabbing the rear gives you some front as well. Especially good for the noobies who are afraid to grab the front for fear they will get launched over the bars. The manufacturers have to try and *****-proof the bikes for risk management. We get the results. It might not be all that bad, really.

 

[S76]

Here is the description from the Yamaha Canada FJR site:

All new unified braking system with computer controlled ABS. When the front brake is applied, all 4 - LHS front caliper pistons are activated, while only the "upper" two pistons on the RHS front caliper are activated. When applying the rear brake, both rear caliper pistons are activated plus the two lower pistons on the front RHS caliper are activated. Brake feeling is the same as previous versions.

Sounds interesting to me. HEY, WHAT CAN GO WRONG!

 

[Warchild]

Here is the description from the Yamaha Canada FJR site:
All new unified braking system with computer controlled ABS. When the front brake is applied, all 4 - LHS front caliper pistons are activated, while only the "upper" two pistons on the RHS front caliper are activated. When applying the rear brake, both rear caliper pistons are activated plus the two lower pistons on the front RHS caliper are activated. Brake feeling is the same as previous versions.

Sounds interesting to me. HEY, WHAT CAN GO WRONG! 

Here's what can go wrong:

You are heading down a road that has a significant incline, and the surface is exceptionally slick due to a light rain, or it's a gravel road, etc. The road is just starting to curve to the left.

You find you need to slow down for whatever reason (say, a small child darts across the road unexpectedly, or what have you). Normally in a situation like this, you would want to tap the rear brake only, so the front end doesn't wash out under you. Remember, you're slightly leaned over to the left.

So you tap the rear brake pedal on this linked-brake-system, the front right caliper activates (even if partially), and the bike slams to the ground instantly, and you find yourself on your *** wondering WTF just happened.

 

[fjrchooser]

I kinda like the idea of the backs linking to the front while the front lever remains independant.

The ratio sounds about right to me too though I admit the only linked brakes I actually have experience with are those on my cars.

I do like the thought of being lazy with the pedal around town when I want to be. And no, I don't buy it luring me into forgetting about the front lever when I really need it. After all, none of those clutchless shifts have made me forget about the clutch lever yet.

 

[rogerfjrfaster]

I like Warchilds reply,I have linked braking on my wing and I have ABS on my FJR. When I go into a corner on the FJR I can touch the rear brake and blead off some speed to round the corner but on my wing it sets me upright, which is what you dont want.When in stopping you want if I remember my ERC class 75 front and 25 rear. If I'm wrong someone who knows better tell me :haha: .

rogerfjrfaster

 

[gulag]

anybody know of anybody who used just the rear brake in gravel or slick stuff and had the front brake activate and put'm down on a linked brake bike? I love gravel roads and ride'm a lot. Sure seems this could happen.

 

[twowheelnut]

anybody know of anybody who used just the rear brake in gravel or slick stuff and had the front brake activate and put'm down on a linked brake bike? I love gravel roads and ride'm a lot.  Sure seems this could happen.

I got lost and wound up on a long, long gravel road. Downhill hairpins. Trusty VFR got me down without drama. Never put a wheel wrong.

Lemme see if I can put this a better way...

My riding skills have not changed since I got the FJR. OK, they've improved by 20,000 miles, big whoop... I've locked up the rear wheel on this bike more times than I care to count with light foot pressure. Did the same on all my other non-linked bikes. Never, ever once did my Wing or VFR lock a wheel - and believe me, I tried to.

Also, on my usual riding roads that allow me to get after it, I could ride my VFR & GL into the corners, much deeper with a lot more braking force, than I can with the FJR. I've hit the water/oil/sewer covers using just rear brake and the front has never acted adversely to braking inputs on my LBS bikes. When the fit hits the shan and if I have my druthers, give me the linked brakes every time.

If you are not a pro racer, there is no way you can 'manually' out brake the LBS in any conditions, IMHO.

 

[gulag]

thanks TWN. When I get the 06' I'm goin to experiment on gravel with it--VERY CAREFULLY--- if the front locks up on gravel and the bikes leaning, the drop & crash happen FAST. Been there,done that a long time agne does tend to remember it---vividly.

 

[Yambone]

I've locked up the rear wheel on this bike more times than I care to count with light foot pressure.

Hmmm, that seems more like a case for ABS than a linked brake argument.

My ABS rear has fired from time to time, and it did seem like the pressure to make it do so was pretty light, until I changed to the Carbone Lorraine pads. They are perfect. Don't know if it is the material, or maybe some adjustment was made unknowingly while I was changing the pads.

As far as a situation not wanting linked brakes: I (stupidly) got caught in a snow/ice storm. It was the longest 3 miles of my life riding home in near white out condition. I had to baby every braking maneuver--the rear ABS was firing like a mo-fo, which I was glad because I felt locking up just the rear would probably have put me down. Trying to stop even from 5mph was a challenge. I am pretty sure any front brake pressure would have put me down. Assuming the rear ABS was firing away, if the brakes were linked, the front would have been braking at whatever percent they are set.

I imagine the new linked brakes are going to sweet, as technology is so advanced. But in the freak chance of hitting snow snot, you might want to park it and wait for it to thaw.

 

[Pjturbo]

I've read that the linked brakes are both ABS and as such the wheel, both front and back, will not lock up. I know on my 05 I cannot lock the front on gravel. I wish I'd had ABS on my old trail bike.

Phil

 

[Yambone]

Ah-so, hadn't thought of that.

 

[FJRottie]

there is no way you can 'manually' out brake the LBS in any conditions

Apply the front brake and the rear brake with your hand and foot.

LBS does not outperform. It applies more than usual, but if I apply what it is half applying, then I get more.

It does not activate until the human applies the brake. ABS is different.

If I apply both front and rear in a LBS system, extra braking does not come into play.

If I want I can put on full front and partial rear and vice-versa.

If I only want the rear, then the LBS is giving me what I don't want.

If I only want the front, then the LBS is giving me what I don't want.

If I want both brakes, I will put both on.

I am not arguing about what people like or should have.

The point is, LBS does not do a better job, just a different job.

If LBS is switchable to "On" or "Off", then I might be impressed.

How incorrect is all that ?

 

[Knifemaker]

TWN's poll may be unfair..but I "voted" for the linked brakes...only because I know that I would favor them as long as the bike had ABS also. I would not want linked brakes without ABS.

That being the case...for me...all the problems listed as "what can go wrong" would more or less be solved. Your front end will wash out in gravel if you use too much front break...because the wheel looses friction and locks up. If the front wheel won't lock..you don't "go down".

I have ridden bikes in gravel, snow, and ice..and you only needed to put just a bit of pressure on the front brake lever to break the front tire loose. If there was an ABS system working here..it should keep that from happening. Linked or not.

The reason I voted for linked brekes is I think they have their advantages on a "touring" bike. We should always ride with our foot near the rear brake and our fingers near the front lever...but there are times riding that they are not. If a situation arrises that requires immediate braking...having the brakes linked...along with ABS..can save your ***.

KM

 

[panthercity]

It does not activate until the human applies the brake. ABS is different.

Huh?

(Not being argumentative, really. I just don't understand this statement.)