Whelen Lights for Both Running Lights and Brakes?

[SacramentoMike]

I'm real interested in those flamethrowing Whelen LIN- or TIR-3 lights, but as far as I can tell, those who use them use them only as a flashing brake light. I'd be real interested in a setup where they were always on for extra rear-end visibility--maybe at only partial power, but went brighter with a few flashes when the brakes were applied.

This may be NEPRT, and may even have been addressed somewhere, but I couldn't come across the specific combination of keyboard keys that would yield the right search result. Please have pity on me.

If what I want can't be done with the Whelens, who has or knows of something with another light that would do what I want? I already HAVE some Hyper Lites and like them a lot, but the SUPER brightness of the Whelens is what I'm looking for. Electrical draw-wise, might it be an issue to have them on all the time? How about blinding-other-drivers-wise? How about burning-out-your-expensive-Whelens-wise? (They ARE LED, right? So that shouldn't be a problem?) Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Lipps]

I'm real interested in those flamethrowing Whelen LIN- or TIR-3 lights, but as far as I can tell, those who use them use them only as a flashing brake light. I'd be real interested in a setup where they were always on for extra rear-end visibility--maybe at only partial power, but went brighter with a few flashes when the brakes were applied.
This may be NEPRT, and may even have been addressed somewhere, but I couldn't come across the specific combination of keyboard keys that would yield the right search result. Please have pity on me.

If what I want can't be done with the Whelens, who has or knows of something with another light that would do what I want? I already HAVE some Hyper Lites and like them a lot, but the SUPER brightness of the Whelens is what I'm looking for. Electrical draw-wise, might it be an issue to have them on all the time? How about blinding-other-drivers-wise? How about burning-out-your-expensive-Whelens-wise? (They ARE LED, right? So that shouldn't be a problem?) Thanks for your thoughts.

In doing some research for a friend that want's some on his Beemer, I stumbled across some great information over at advrider. If you do a search on 'whelen tir-3 site:advrider.com' in google, it should turn up some very useful information. I remember reading about someone wanting to do what your asking about as far as running + brake in one of the mega threads.

Unfortunately, the built in whelen flash modes (since there meant for public safety light bars) are pretty much unusable (unless you want a constantly flashing brake light) and require that you set the light to full burn and then use an add-on flasher module if you want say 4 flashes and then steady (legal in CA).

Let me know if you decide to install some of these. I'd like to see em' in person.

EDIT: Here's a link to one of the posts discussing running + brake lights

 

[bramfrank]

Check this out: https://www.whelen.com/pb/Automotive/Produc...Lite_Series.pdf. I have a PSRASXCR sitting on my shelf. Looks interesting

 

[RaYzerman19]

Statistically, few accidents are from the rear, although I do believe in attention-getting lights, whether it be flashing patterns or add-ons. Your Hyperlites are super already, small but very attention-getting.... why bother with the Whelens? But, I do like their strip lights if you have nothing else.

 

[Fred W]

While that may be true statistically, being hit from behind is a situation that is harder for the motorcycle operator to be aware of.

Yes, you can watch your 6 in your mirrors whenever stopped, easiest if you have FZ1 mirrors. But there will be circumstances where you see the oncoming car in your mirror but have nowhere to escape to. It can't possibly hurt to be more visible from behind.

The Whelens are much brighter than Hyperlights. Not even close.

They are also relatively cheap at $50 per unit.

As to the OP question of dimming LEDs to act as a running light, yes it can be done. You'll need to experiment with varying amount of series resistance for the unit you'll be using. The LEDs need a certain amount of applied voltage before they will fire at all. You'll want to adjust the voltage up until they just fire and then margin them up a tad more so they remain on reliably. You'll also have to experiment to be sure that the difference between dimmed and bright is enough to send the message that you are braking.

You could also try using a pulse width modulation circuit to drive the dimmed running light. That way the light output should be more viable since you'll be driving full voltage for a shorter or longer duty cycle. It will make the LED flash, but if the strobe rate is fast enough the flashing will not be detectable by eye. That would be the most elegant and efficient way to do it.

[Edit] Here's a start on building your own PWM dimmer. Or you can buy them already made for too much $$.

 

[3dogs]

I reviewed these lights from The Electrical Connection for RoadBike magazine. These LEDs are really bright (don't know how they compare to the Whelen units?). Easy to mount and only cost $29. They works as both brake and running lights. I used a flasher module from Kisan ($79) to make them flash--flash pattern decays--rapid then slower then on steady. Had them on my 05 for about 8 months--wife says when she follows me they are annoying but do get her attention.

 

[TheAxeman]

After riding behind Fred for many miles, I can tell you matter-of-factly that the Whelan brake light he has mounted on his bike stands out from all others while riding in a group. Excellent farkle IMHO. I have had one sitting in my garage for a year now but can't seem to find the time to install it.

 

[Fred W]

I reviewed these lights from The Electrical Connection for RoadBike magazine. These LEDs are really bright (don't know how they compare to the Whelen units?). Easy to mount and only cost $29. They works as both brake and running lights. I used a flasher module from Kisan ($79) to make them flash--flash pattern decays--rapid then slower then on steady. Had them on my 05 for about 8 months--wife says when she follows me they are annoying but do get her attention.

That is a good looking unit and a great price. If you coupled that with one of these 3rd brake light flashers for only $20 (for just the brake light function) you'd only be out a total of $50 for the whole shooting match.

 

[SacramentoMike]

Thanks for the replies. We're zeroing in on a good solution for me. Once I see a diagram with diodes and resistors and squiggly lines, though, my eyes start to glaze, so I won't be building any homemade PWM dimmers, but thanks for the thoughts, Fred (and of course, somebody else out there might find that to be just the shizzle for his own bike--one of the beauties of the forum).

I kind of like the looks of the license plate frame setups that 3dogs linked to, and the Whelen strip lights as well; clearly there are a number of good answers to the rear-end brightness question. I just called one supplier that one of these suggestions led me to, Parr Public Safety Equipment. They sell Whelen products and others too. I spoke to one of their technical guys who was very helpful--he listened to what I wanted and took my email addy and said he'll figure out the best solution he can from what they have and get back to me. I'll let you know here what he suggests.

p.s., I'm with Fred on depending on the statistical chances of getting rear-ended. It only takes once to wreck the whole day. Take it from the guy who just got slammed hard a few months back by some dorkweed while stopped at a traffic light--in my CAR!

 

[RaYzerman19]

I will agree with whatever makes you feel comfortable, I just thought of all the Hyperlites I have seen that I couldn't miss if I wanted to.... yellow is the most visible colour........ trying to save you some cash, but yes, there are those who won't even see Whelens. Ask all the cops and emergency vehicles that have been hit..... gotta also be careful of target fixation.... sometimes bigger isn't always better.

I do like those strip lights though.....

 

[Happy Rider]

Good topic and something I have been considering. I use the Whelen Lin 3 with a 3rd brake light flasher. It is mounted under the rear plate and there is room under the Lin 3 for a second one. I have it set to strobe 4 times then go solid. During the day the bright light is not an issue. When commuting home at night it might be a little bright. I would like to add another under the one I am using as a brake light and run the second one as a running light. Like you, I just need to figure out how to dim it a bit so there is a distinction between brake and running lights and so I don't blind people with a very bright running light. I have ridden behind people with the Hyperlights during the day and they just don't seem bright enough. At night they seem to work well.

Those Clearwater LED lights that many run up front have a dimmer on them. Would a dimmer like that work the same with the Lin3 lights?

 

[SacramentoMike]

It's not a dimmer on the Clearwaters. It's a unique chip that controls the voltage going to the lights. It's internal (no ballast to find a place to mount), and proprietary as well. The brightness of an LED changes depending on the voltage going through it so they actually use LESS power when they're dimmed, so a normal "dimmer" wouldn't work. So I understand, anyway.

I'm guessing that would be a hell of a bright setup on yours, HR, especially after you add a second one. Careful about folks following you at night missing curves and driving off the road.

 

[Fred W]

It's not a dimmer on the Clearwaters. It's a unique chip that controls the voltage going to the lights. It's internal (no ballast to find a place to mount), and proprietary as well. The brightness of an LED changes depending on the voltage going through it so they actually use LESS power when they're dimmed, so a normal "dimmer" wouldn't work. So I understand, anyway.

Sort of...

LEDs are not voltage sensitive. They are current sensitive. Which is what makes them somewhat finicky. See, as you apply an increased voltage, this will result in an increase in current. And eventually you will reach the point where the LED fires. From there, as voltage is increased further the current increase is non-linear, so a small increment in voltage results in a larger change in current, and correspondingly quicker increase in light output until the maximum is reached.

Therein lies the dilemma for those wanting to dim them. That and not all LEDs (even of the exact same type) behave identically. So while a XXX ohm resistor may work perfectly on Joe Blow's FJR, it might not give the results on Suzy Cheesecake's.

That's why a PWM dimmer would be the ultimate answer.

 

[72Duster340]

Did anyone go to the Whelen website www.whelen.com they have a section on the front page of their site "Systems- DOT & Motorcycle" under the left hand header "Automotive". There is also technical support and and installation guides on the website their phone number is 860-526-9504. Whelen products are very robust and have good warranties I use the strobes and power supplies at work. The factory is about 25 miles from my house, it is located in Essex CT.

 

[Patriot]

hyperlites are the bomb...my PGR buddies even say in bright sunlight, they command attention

 

[3dogs]

LEDs are not voltage sensitive. They are current sensitive. Which is what makes them somewhat finicky. See, as you apply an increased voltage, this will result in an increase in current. And eventually you will reach the point where the LED fires. From there, as voltage is increased further the current increase is non-linear, so a small increment in voltage results in a larger change in current, and correspondingly quicker increase in light output until the maximum is reached.
Therein lies the dilemma for those wanting to dim them. That and not all LEDs (even of the exact same type) behave identically. So while a XXX ohm resistor may work perfectly on Joe Blow's FJR, it might not give the results on Suzy Cheesecake's.

That's why a PWM dimmer would be the ultimate answer.

I talked with the owner/manufacture of Glenda LED lights and was told that the chip that controls brightness uses a duty cycle to cause the lights to dim. They are not really dimming in the same way an incandecent light does by reducing voltage. Instead they flash on/off faster than our eyes can detiect. At full power the duty cycle is at 100% and they are on continuously. As the dimmer is turned the duty cycle decreases and the LEDs are on less of the time. I think he told me that they flash at a rate of 270 times per minute when they start dimming.

 

[GillaFunk]

I like mine. I added a break light to my DR650. They work GREAT!!! I mean like, REALLLY RBRIGHT!

and an amber unit to the front bars as running lights. Amber is not as impressive as the red.

 

[Lipps]

LEDs are not voltage sensitive. They are current sensitive. Which is what makes them somewhat finicky. See, as you apply an increased voltage, this will result in an increase in current. And eventually you will reach the point where the LED fires. From there, as voltage is increased further the current increase is non-linear, so a small increment in voltage results in a larger change in current, and correspondingly quicker increase in light output until the maximum is reached.
Therein lies the dilemma for those wanting to dim them. That and not all LEDs (even of the exact same type) behave identically. So while a XXX ohm resistor may work perfectly on Joe Blow's FJR, it might not give the results on Suzy Cheesecake's.

That's why a PWM dimmer would be the ultimate answer.

I talked with the owner/manufacture of Glenda LED lights and was told that the chip that controls brightness uses a duty cycle to cause the lights to dim. They are not really dimming in the same way an incandecent light does by reducing voltage. Instead they flash on/off faster than our eyes can detiect. At full power the duty cycle is at 100% and they are on continuously. As the dimmer is turned the duty cycle decreases and the LEDs are on less of the time. I think he told me that they flash at a rate of 270 times per minute when they start dimming.

What you're describing is a PWM dimmer.

 

[Fred W]

I'm pretty sure that he knew that.