YCC-S Modification?

[striker]

I've had my 2007 FJR1300AE for about six months now. There is one thing about it that drives me crazy and I'll bet there's a clever way to fix it.

It seems like it doesn't come out of gear until I'm practically at a complete stop - I'm assuming that's by design. This probably hurts braking performance right? I wonder if there's any way to get it out of gear on demand so I can coast and get back into the friction zone when I want to.

Maybe there's a way to wire or program it so we could disengage the gear by tapping the front brake lever? I see three advantages to this:

1. I could coast on the highway again (alleluia!)

2. Braking would be more effective (since it's not fighting the engine anymore)

3. Allow the bike to transition straight into rear-brake-dragging low speed maneuvers without practically coming to a complete stop first

After disengaging the gear, simply adding throttle should(?) begin to engage the clutch before getting back into the selected gear.

Has anyone asked Yamaha or attempted this?

I might be crazy, but I think it would be awesome if it could be done.

Cheers

 

[Big-B]

good luck with that.

That's my biggest complaint with the AE as well. It sure would be nice to be able to coast again.

Another thing I had happen was when riding down Mount Washington in NH in slow traffic and I was not able to give it any gas to let the clutch out and had to coast until the guy that was going ridiculously slow got out of the way. Tey deifinitely didn't account for that in the YCCS programming.

 

[RiderX]

Another thing I had happen was when riding down Mount Washington in NH in slow traffic and I was not able to give it any gas to let the clutch out and had to coast until the guy that was going ridiculously slow got out of the way. Tey deifinitely didn't account for that in the YCCS programming.

I can't figure this. Perhaps I'm lost. "Had to coast"--couldn't you add throttle or brake?

 

[mcatrophy]

I've had my 2007 FJR1300AE for about six months now. There is one thing about it that drives me crazy and I'll bet there's a clever way to fix it.
It seems like it doesn't come out of gear until I'm practically at a complete stop - I'm assuming that's by design. This probably hurts braking performance right? I wonder if there's any way to get it out of gear on demand so I can coast and get back into the friction zone when I want to.

Maybe there's a way to wire or program it so we could disengage the gear by tapping the front brake lever? I see three advantages to this:

1. I could coast on the highway again (alleluia!)

2. Braking would be more effective (since it's not fighting the engine anymore)

3. Allow the bike to transition straight into rear-brake-dragging low speed maneuvers without practically coming to a complete stop first

After disengaging the gear, simply adding throttle should(?) begin to engage the clutch before getting back into the selected gear.

Has anyone asked Yamaha or attempted this?

I might be crazy, but I think it would be awesome if it could be done.

Cheers

Comment on your item 2: the brakes should never fight the engine (so long as your throttle is shut). The clutch should disengage as the engine speed drops through 1300 rpm, your idle should be less than that (I've set mine at about 900, lower than many, but it doesn't cause me a problem). If your clutch is reluctant to disengage, perhaps yours is a bit sticky and needs a soak or your idle setting is too high?

As for the others, I couldn't agree more with your wish. Coasting can be useful over a very slippery road surface or past a nervous horse. For getting to the slow speed clutch-slip phase which I often need for very tight uphill hairpins, you have to slow too much on approach, and it's likely to disengage at the worst possible moment if it's still engaged if you slow in the corner.

However, unless you completely override the disabling/enabling of the clutch operation, you may encounter other problems, such as one I found. I was in a line of heavy, stop-go traffic going down hill. In first gear, I allowed the bike to coast down the hill. The traffic freed up, my speed rose to well over 30 mph, but the clutch wasn't engaged. Now I couldn't select higher gear as I would have with a manual, the only ways to get to normal operation was either to slow the bike down (inconvenient in the line of traffic) or rev the engine very high to match the road speed in 1st gear. Try dropping the clutch in at something over 5000 rpm in bottom gear smoothly!

 

[striker]

Wow that's sounds a bit hairy mca. I've kinda noticed that happening once or twice too, but I don't think I'd made that kind of speed before getting back into gear!

I didn't know about the 1300rpm braking threshold - thanks. Maybe I'll try braking without downshifting as early to see if I can get those rpms down.

I'll double check that idle speed when hot to make sure it's no where near 1300. I'd set my idle to about 1100 after I noticed it stall every so often. I'd be at a light, idling fine, but when I went for the gas it would putter out. Don't know how well the previous owner took care of her - I should probably run some seafoam or something through there anyway to make sure the fuel system's clean - but what would I do about the clutch? I've already had 2 oil changes done and it doesn't seem to change anything.

So the first problem with disengaging the engine when pulling the front brake might be related to shifting once we're idling out of gear. I'm pretty sure I can shift down at idle, like if I left it in fifth and stopped; but you're right - it's not going to let us shift up if we find ourselves going significantly faster after coasting. So since I'm dreaming out loud we can fix that while we're at it too.

Otherwise, like mca found, we could find ourselves in a somewhat precarious pucker up and gun it situation. Even if

Thanks again. I'm not about to touch anything without bouncing the idea around a bit to see if any more possible problems with it arise. The maybe reach out to Yamaha with the idea first. They'd probably want a dollar amount that each would be willing to pay for the modification - but I'd much rather have them monkey around with it than me. Assuming it's a simple fix (given they have the blueprints and source code) I'd probably be willing to pop a hundred or two.

 

[RiderX]

I go up and down significant elevation from stop lights several times per week, has never come up for me, but I understand what you're saying now. Thanks.

I doubt that your stalling is an AE issue. Clutch actuator or something you'd likely notice other spots than just takeoff. Anything else erratic or any codes?

 

[striker]

It hasn't stalled since I bumped up idle to about 1100 rpm. Nothing else erratic that I've noticed - but I did get the bike used with about 25,000 miles on it so I wouldn't necessarily know how any AE-specific features are supposed to behave. AEs are probably rare enough that the dealer techs probably don't even know either.

Just so's you know where I'm coming from, I've only been riding for about 3 years and this is my first bike that isn't a cruiser. I'm learning as I go, hoping to figure out how to understand what the machine's trying to tell me. I like to tinker around with a service manual in-hand but it's not like I can claim to be any kind of mechanic - so that's where I'm at - eager to learn.

A follow-up to the brakes fighting the engine thing. So I paid attention to what my rpms did a couple of times yesterday as I'm braking to a stop from 5th without shifting down. Of course, since the gear is still engaged, my rpms don't really go anywhere when I release the throttle. So in essence I'm engine braking all the way down whether I like it or not, and the gear isn't released until I'm almost completely stopped. At that point, my brakes suddenly become more effective since they are no longer fighting the engine, which causes me to lurch a bit if I'm not ready for it. I assumed this was normal behavior for the AE since it's been consistent so that's all I've known. If it isn't right then I'd love to get that fixed since it doesn't seem as safe as it could or maybe ought to be.

Come to think of it, I'll do some more testing on that - it's hard to tell if the clutch disengages even as early as 1300 rpm: it might even be when it hits idling speed. If that's the case then maybe that means the bike's falling back on it's "don't stall" programming rather than releasing the gear for stronger braking. Hmmm.

Thanks for any help

 

[wnyfjr]

I tend to downshift to at least 3rd when coming to a stop (unless the stop is unexpected) and then once at rest I drop it all the way down to first for the launch. I got used to the "no coasting" thing very quickly. Don't even really think about it any longer. I also tend to upshift with the paddle, and downshift with the foot. No reason why, I just got in the habit of it. I have felt the "lurch" you speak of though, when the clutch finally kicks in at the correct RPM/forward speed combo. Again, I am used to it, and it's not really noticeable to me now.

 

[Top_Speed1]

I always have to be at an almost stop to be able to 'N' it. Downshifting is so quick on this, my brake pads still show hardly no wear at all. Guess I'm Down-Shift happy

Love the AE! ...the one and only option I would like to have on my Beemer!

 

[striker]

wow - thanks for the replies

How do you guys see this so quick? Do you just take a look at the latests posts every so often? (yup, I'm an FNG)

 

[mcatrophy]

...A follow-up to the brakes fighting the engine thing. So I paid attention to what my rpms did a couple of times yesterday as I'm braking to a stop from 5th without shifting down. Of course, since the gear is still engaged, my rpms don't really go anywhere when I release the throttle. So in essence I'm engine braking all the way down whether I like it or not, and the gear isn't released until I'm almost completely stopped. At that point, my brakes suddenly become more effective since they are no longer fighting the engine, which causes me to lurch a bit if I'm not ready for it. I assumed this was normal behavior for the AE since it's been consistent so that's all I've known. If it isn't right then I'd love to get that fixed since it doesn't seem as safe as it could or maybe ought to be.

...

You should never feel that the brakes are fighting the engine. When you shut the throttle, the engine will help the brakes. This should continue until the clutch release (nominally 1300 rpm), which if you are still in 5th is about 24.5 mph, then if anything you feel a reduction in braking, maybe felt as a slight lurch forward. Not that the engine is doing much braking at such a low rpm.
If you feel the engine pulling, then either you haven't closed the throttle fully or you have a clutch disengagement issue.

In my experience, you will feel a reluctance in clutch disengagement with a cold engine with its high idle, but not with the hot idle. Unless you have a sticky clutch or possibly aerated hydraulic fluid.

Staying in 5th as you come to rest would normally be considered bad practice, but that's another issue. And yes, you can change down while stationary, but you might need to rock the bike or ease the throttle up to align the gearbox dogs at some stage.

 

[mcatrophy]

wow - thanks for the replies
How do you guys see this so quick? Do you just take a look at the latests posts every so often? (yup, I'm an FNG)

We're all sad old men with nothing better to do than keep refreshing fjrforum.com all the time we're not out riding.

 

[striker]

haha - well thank goodness for old men then - we need more - just don't be sad

I'm definitely not in the practice of stopping in fifth, I usually let the engine do most of the braking with a little throttle blip down through each gear before I ever touch the brakes. I just stopped in fifth as a test to see at what rpm my clutch is disengaging - figured fifth would have the best chance of reaching that 1300 rpm threshold sooner.

I'll find an empty lot and see what I can see. If it's supposed to disengage sooner than it is then it would probably be good to figure out, or I'm just up in the night - either way I'm learning more about my bike which can't hurt.

 

[striker]

Okay, so there is a slight uphill grade that I have slowed down to and am approaching in third. The throttle's out so I'm just "coasting" in gear. My idle is set to 1100 rpm and the bike begins to push me up the hill in third at 1100 rpm. Once the tach starts to go below 1000 rpm, the engine is struggling to continue pushing before the clutch finally lets it off the hook.

Does this indicate a problem or is this normal behavior? If it's supposed to disengage at 1300 rpm then my bike definitely isn't and I should go bug my dealer then right?

Sorry, again, maybe I'm just up in the night - but I would like to know if it's expected or not.

Thanks much - and if anybody in So Cal would like to set up an FJR ride one of these days I'd sure like to join and see what you've all done with your rides.

 

[mcatrophy]

Okay, so there is a slight uphill grade that I have slowed down to and am approaching in third. The throttle's out so I'm just "coasting" in gear. My idle is set to 1100 rpm and the bike begins to push me up the hill in third at 1100 rpm. Once the tach starts to go below 1000 rpm, the engine is struggling to continue pushing before the clutch finally lets it off the hook.
Does this indicate a problem or is this normal behavior? If it's supposed to disengage at 1300 rpm then my bike definitely isn't and I should go bug my dealer then right?

Sorry, again, maybe I'm just up in the night - but I would like to know if it's expected or not.

Thanks much - and if anybody in So Cal would like to set up an FJR ride one ofY these days I'd sure like to join and see what you've all done with your rides.

Yes you do have an issue, this isn't normal behaviour.
A number of possibilities I can think of. Could the previous owner have changed the clutch engagement speed? You can test for this, from rest and at idle, gradually increase the engine speed, watch the tacho, see when it just begins to pull. This should be at 1800, no lower. I believe the disengagement speed "follows" the engagement speed. The adjustment can be done "at home", but is relatively complex.

The clutch might be sticking or binding, this is often associated with jerking when moving from rest.

There might be a hydraulic issue, when was the fluid last bled? Also usually causes jerking moving from rest. Not a trivial task on the YCC-S bikes.

It could be a faulty actuator, rare, but very expensive.

 

[striker]

Okay, so there is a slight uphill grade that I have slowed down to and am approaching in third. The throttle's out so I'm just "coasting" in gear. My idle is set to 1100 rpm and the bike begins to push me up the hill in third at 1100 rpm. Once the tach starts to go below 1000 rpm, the engine is struggling to continue pushing before the clutch finally lets it off the hook.
Does this indicate a problem or is this normal behavior? If it's supposed to disengage at 1300 rpm then my bike definitely isn't and I should go bug my dealer then right?

Sorry, again, maybe I'm just up in the night - but I would like to know if it's expected or not.

Thanks much - and if anybody in So Cal would like to set up an FJR ride one ofY these days I'd sure like to join and see what you've all done with your rides.

Yes you do have an issue, this isn't normal behaviour.
A number of possibilities I can think of. Could the previous owner have changed the clutch engagement speed? You can test for this, from rest and at idle, gradually increase the engine speed, watch the tacho, see when it just begins to pull. This should be at 1800, no lower. I believe the disengagement speed "follows" the engagement speed. The adjustment can be done "at home", but is relatively complex.

The clutch might be sticking or binding, this is often associated with jerking when moving from rest.

There might be a hydraulic issue, when was the fluid last bled? Also usually causes jerking moving from rest. Not a trivial task on the YCC-S bikes.

It could be a faulty actuator, rare, but very expensive.

Thanks mcatrophy!

I'll check on the way home today, but I'm pretty sure it's pulling sooner than 1800, and it's always been pretty jerky but I just kinda tuned my throttle hand a bit and shrugged it off thinking that's just what it is.

 

[Steve in Phx]

I know this post is a bit old but did this get resolved?

What fixed it?

 

[wfooshee]

I just have to do this: I resisted before, but now that it woke up......

You get a bike that does the clutch for you, removes your control of the clutch, and then you want to control the clutch.......

 

[Brodie]

Who watches the watchers?

Who controls the controllers?