Starting issues when hot

mxboy96 · Jul 12, 2014

So I'm still having slow cranking issues with my 05. Now that it's summer and warm it will start all the time now but still crank slow, but after a good 'hot soak' (letting it idle 10min. or so after it's warmed up to get everything steaming hot), I'll shut it off and attempt to start again and it won't crank fast enough to start. I've measured starter amperage draw cold and hot, and a cold engine takes approx. 100-125A, after a hot soak she's sucking down as much as 280A. Now with a new Yuasa battery, especially being rated at only 200CCA, I'm going to go ahead and deem my starter as the gremlin beings it's right behind the cylinder and directly in the heat. Yes, I've ruled out all other possibilities in the starting circuit. Just wondering if anyone will agree with me on this one or have anything to add that I may not know?

Donal · Jul 12, 2014

definitely sounds like your starter motor is on the way out. The cranking current is way too high, 60-80 amps would be more normal.

hppants · Jul 12, 2014

My '05 was doing exactly the same thing under the same conditions. I took the starter button apart, cleaned the contacts, and it fixed the problem. I may still have a suspect spot on the armature of my starter. Not sure - if it gets worse again, I'm going to pull the starter and have it tested.

ionbeam · Jul 12, 2014

hppants said:
My '05 was doing exactly the same thing under the same conditions. I took the starter button apart, cleaned the contacts, and it fixed the problem. I may still have a suspect spot on the armature of my starter. Not sure - if it gets worse again, I'm going to pull the starter and have it tested.

The starter button only activates the starter relay and has no relationship to the starter motor directly. I fear for your armature and brushes.

mxboy96 said:
So I'm still having slow cranking issues with my 05...I've measured starter amperage draw cold and hot, and a cold engine takes approx. 100-125A, after a hot soak she's sucking down as much as 280A...

Good job, your troubleshooting is done. Are you going to have a local shop rebuild your starter? Are you going to take a crap shoot and buy a used starter for a lot less $$$ than new? Are you going to send it to Rick's Motor Sport Electric in Hampstead NH to be rebuilt by a bike electrical shop? Donal is correct, starting current should be in the 60-80 amp range.

101stpathfinder · Jul 12, 2014

Same thing with my '05. Replaced the starter and no problems with starter since.

I had forgotten what a starter was supposed to sound like.

But now I am having "Rider" issues… I start out riding fine - but then I want to stop.

Not sure if its caused by the new starter or not (?)

GalaxyBlue · Jul 12, 2014

Mine also. It gets really bad where i live since it's 120 in the summer.

hppants · Jul 12, 2014

Yeah - I'm pretty sure my starter is on it's way out too. Is this something unique to the 2005? I have a spare from Patriot's grenaded motor. Next time I do the valve check and take the tupperware off, maybe I'll have a go at it.

wfooshee · Jul 14, 2014

Been there done that got the t-shirt. Don't know what mine was drawing, my meter pegged at 160 amps. I got lucky enough to get a used starter for under a hunnert bucks and it's been fine since.

Same symptoms..... Fires right up when cold even though it cranked a little slow. Once stopped it would not turn over fast enough to fire unless it sat for 15 minutes or so. Made gas stops a real PITA. They became snack/drink/bathroom/lottery-tickets/read-a-magazine breaks.

RobertB · Jul 14, 2014

Just replaced my starter on my '05 a few weeks ago. Had the same symptoms as yours. Sent the original to Rick's, and the armarture was shot. Couldn't be fixed,.So I ordered a new starter, installed it, and problem solved.

mxboy96 · Jul 18, 2014

Awsome! I'm happy to see I'm not the only one, haha. Ionbeam, I did put the only serviceable part in it this winter, the brushes. So I'm going to have to go with a new one. I really just don't want to spend the $400 something odd dollars to get a new one. They're the simplest little starter there is and quite frankly the most expensive I think I've seen. I mean come on Yamaha, it's not a freakin Harley or Beemer....

RadioHowie · Jul 18, 2014

mxboy96 said:
I mean come on Yamaha, it's not a freakin Harley or Beemer....

Thank the good Lord for that!

hppants · Jul 20, 2014

hppants said:
My '05 was doing exactly the same thing under the same conditions. I took the starter button apart, cleaned the contacts, and it fixed the problem. I may still have a suspect spot on the armature of my starter. Not sure - if it gets worse again, I'm going to pull the starter and have it tested.

Forget this ^^^^^ not true. Today, I had to push bump start the bike when the starter wouldn't go quick enough. I left the key on with the aux lights and running lights on for an hour - so the battery might have been a little weak. But rest assured, I'm on borrowed time.

I have a spare starter from Patriot's motor - maybe I'll take it apart and see of it needs brushes. I would assume any motor shop can test the armature to make sure it doesn't have a bad area - yes? Part Shark gets $308.00 for a new starter, and shows a set of brushes for $18.51, plus a few o-rings. Looking at the parts breakdown, it doesn't appear to be a big deal to replace the brushes - no special tools, etc. Can anyone please confirm this?

Finally, IIRC, there's nothing magical about removing and replacing the starter - it's on top of the engine and comes out with two bolts on the block - correct?

ionbeam · Jul 20, 2014

hppants said:
...I have a spare starter from Patriot's motor - maybe I'll take it apart and see of it needs brushes.

I would assume any motor shop can test the armature to make sure it doesn't have a bad area - yes?

Finally, IIRC, there's nothing magical about removing and replacing the starter - it's on top of the engine and comes out with two bolts on the block...

The FJR starter is easier than some to get the brushes installed without cocking or chipping.
Yes a motor shop can test the armature. You need to have the spaces between the commutator segments cleaned and if there is any irregularity to the commutator it should be turned and polished. That is almost all that goes into a starter rebuild if the windings and bearings are good. If the armature windings are good your starter woes is almost certainly brush dust and perhaps oil packed in the grooves between the commutator segments and not the brushes (though they should be changed if you are already there). Inspect the motor housing to make sure the magnets around the inside are firmly attached and in the correct position.
Once the air box and everything over the motor is removed the starter is easy to get out.

If you are going to take the time to go to the motor/starter shop consider having them do the rebuild 'cause they have the tools and ability to test the unit when it's done. As a bonus you will probably get a short warranty.

Peewee · Jul 31, 2014

ionbeam said:
hppants said:

...I have a spare starter from Patriot's motor - maybe I'll take it apart and see of it needs brushes.

I would assume any motor shop can test the armature to make sure it doesn't have a bad area - yes?

Finally, IIRC, there's nothing magical about removing and replacing the starter - it's on top of the engine and comes out with two bolts on the block...

Click to expand...

Ye but getting to it ain't so simple

The FJR starter is easier than some to get the brushes installed without cocking or chipping.

Yes a motor shop can test the armature. You need to have the spaces between the commutator segments cleaned and if there is any irregularity to the commutator it should be turned and polished. That is almost all that goes into a starter rebuild if the windings and bearings are good. If the armature windings are good your starter woes is almost certainly brush dust and perhaps oil packed in the grooves between the commutator segments and not the brushes (though they should be changed if you are already there). Inspect the motor housing to make sure the magnets around the inside are firmly attached and in the correct position.

Once the air box and everything over the motor is removed the starter is easy to get out.

If you are going to take the time to go to the motor/starter shop consider having them do the rebuild 'cause they have the tools and ability to test the unit when it's done. As a bonus you will probably get a short warranty.

Is there a simple guide on here to cover this, I went at this today not too easy to get out

Peewee · Jul 31, 2014

hppants said:
Yeah - I'm pretty sure my starter is on it's way out too. Is this something unique to the 2005? I have a spare from Patriot's grenaded motor. Next time I do the valve check and take the tupperware off, maybe I'll have a go at it.

Same as that with my 02

hppants · Jul 31, 2014

The starter shop told me that Patriot's armature is bad, he can't repair or replace it, and he can't get an aftermarket starter - IOW, I'm SOL. I find that intriguing since:

1. The starter had very little dirt/dust/grime in it

2. The brushes were hardly worn at all

3. Patriot was not having trouble with it.

So - I'm not sure what I'm going to do now.

ionbeam · Jul 31, 2014

Peewee said:
Is there a simple guide on here to cover this, I went at this today not too easy to get out

I've got a link to a simple guide but the project isn't as simple as you would think. It's just cruel that something you can so easily see is so difficult to get to.

Peewee · Aug 1, 2014

True that. Thanks for the link 2 FUN

Peewee · Aug 1, 2014

ionbeam said:
Peewee said:

Is there a simple guide on here to cover this, I went at this today not too easy to get out

Click to expand...

I've got a link to a simple guide but the project isn't as simple as you would think. It's just cruel that something you can so easily see is so difficult to get to.

IONBEAM thanks for linky got the S.O.B. out today. It could have been a worse job.

Sorry about the above handle boo boo. my bad

Starting issues when hot

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