Ground Fault

Delboy · Mar 27, 2015

I purchased a used 07 last year.

I had the local dealer do the recalls, which included the wiring harness and ignition.

In August the starter solenoid went out. I had this replaced.

When I started the bike this Monday (3/23/15) the high beam indicator was on, the hazards were on, the windscreen motor did not work, and the headlight did not work.

The local dealer says its a ground fault.

Yamaha will cover the parts, and the dealer needs to submit a claim for labor to fix this.

I also have a small noise that seems to be coming from below the timing chain cover.

(It is hard to describe the noise)

The dealer has checked the timing chain for alignment, and he has check the timing tensioner. All ok.

(I think I may need to record the noise and post it).

I think the bike was not cared for very well before I got it.

I needed to have the fork seals done. The bike has 32000 miles.

This suggest a lot of wheelies?

Perhaps the noise is clutch related noise?

I love the bike. I want to keep it. But at what point do I say, its time to let it go.

Any thoughts?

RossKean · Mar 27, 2015

I don't think you have any issues that can't be handled.

Your electrical symptoms are classic for grounding issues. As far as I know, Yamaha hasn't stepped up for anything but the so-called S4 spider. If your dealer gets support from Yamaha on this, please post up with some details! Your problem could be one of the other "spiders" or "Coupler 3". Although I had the recall done, I had subsequent issues with a "spider" at the left-front of the bike as well as the coupler. (See https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/158418-itsy-bitsy-spider/?hl=itsy and lots of other threads) By the way, if you don't get Yamaha support, fixing it yourself will take some time and VERY modest electrical skills but it isn't difficult.

If your cam chain tensioner is original, CHANGE IT. There have been issues in the past with the older style and failure of this component will ruin your whole day. Symptoms of a flaky CCT include noise (rattling) on the right side of the engine; especially upon startup.

There is (was) a good chance that your fork seals were OK. A small leak will often develop due to dirt between the seal and the fork tube. Do a search on Sealmate (or Seal mate, or seal-mate). This probably works to eliminate the leak in 75% of cases.

Intech · Mar 27, 2015

Well your listed symptoms are classic ground spider indicators. That should not have happened if the recall was done. Curious. The fork seals leaking isn't necessarily an indication of abuse. The environment the bike is ridden in and that it probably sat for a long time can contribute. They may be dry. The noise is the most concerning. These bikes are tough. Unless there is something mechanically wrong with the engine the things you mention don't sound serious.

YummYam · Mar 27, 2015

Using the seal mate thing works every time for me and it's easy to do.

Also had left front ground spider issues, S6. I cut the connector off, soldered all the wires together and wrapped them up.

Great information available here on the Forum.

Delboy · Mar 27, 2015

Thanks for the advice.

Any more info on cam chain tensioner?

Should I use the lasted version of the Yamaha one?

Intech · Mar 27, 2015

Delboy said:
Thanks for the advice.Any more info on cam chain tensioner?

Should I use the lasted version of the Yamaha one?

The new ones should have a blue dot on them. You can get it from Partzilla. They were cheaper than everyone else.

Intech · Mar 27, 2015

An '07 should already have a blue dot tensioner. That doesn't mean it can't be bad, though. Take the bolt out of the end of it and use a flat blade screwdriver to turn the tensioner spring out (takes the pressure off the chain) Then slowly release the screw. The screw should turn back in smoothly. If it doesn't then the tensioner is not working correctly and should be replaced. It is not the easiest thing to replace, but not too bad. The new ones come with a clip that keeps the plunger extracted until after it is installed.

RossKean · Mar 27, 2015

The "Blue dot" tensioner did not come in until after 2007. Not sure what year but my '07 did not have it. The new one might come with a green (or other color) dot. Just get the latest one from any reliable supplier.

AlleyCat · Mar 27, 2015

+1 for the Sealmate.... My 2009 had a leaky fork seal that I easily fixed with the Sealmate. Just have a look at their 'how-to' video (it happens to be a FJR). Before you spend big bucks to have your seals replaced, try the Sealmate. One very happy customer here.

RaYzerman19 · Mar 27, 2015

Intech's check is OK if you're experienced (sorry, Bob, just don't know the level of the OP's expertise). If there is a rattle noise, I'd replace the tensioner as cheap insurance, especially if you don't see a dot on it. Before you replace it, take the precaution of removing the right side cover and putting a tie wrap on the cam chain.... read the various threads for other tips to replace it.

The revised tensioner came later in the '07 models, so the earlier ones may not have "the dot". If you order a new one, it will be the latest revision.

Intech · Mar 28, 2015

RaYzerman19 said:
Intech's check is OK if you're experienced (sorry, Bob, just don't know the level of the OP's expertise). If there is a rattle noise, I'd replace the tensioner as cheap insurance, especially if you don't see a dot on it. Before you replace it, take the precaution of removing the right side cover and putting a tie wrap on the cam chain.... read the various threads for other tips to replace it. The revised tensioner came later in the '07 models, so the earlier ones may not have "the dot". If you order a new one, it will be the latest revision.

Understand Ray. There certainly is a technique to it. Having the right length screwdriver makes a difference, so you don't have any contact interference.

Harald · Mar 31, 2015

Assuming the dealer did a complete job with the grounding harness recall to fix the S4 spider, then it would indicate you have a different spider that failed . Be sure to ask the dealer what they find because if the problem is with the S4 spider (under tank and above the left side of the engine) then they/Yamaha should cover the repair under warranty. If it's another connection, we would like to know to continue building the forum knowledge database.

Delboy · Apr 2, 2015

Update.

It is a ground fault. Apparently the ground fault is tied to a burned out ground bus near the headlight.

A new wiring harness is the main part that is needed to address this problem.

As of now, Yamaha has agreed to cover the parts. They agreed verbally with the dealer, but I had to call Yamaha as the paper work was taking too long to approve.

On top of this, the dealer has to submit a request to Yamaha to cover the cost of labor. Not sure on this yet.

So, I have two wiring harness replacements in one year.

The first one was a recall.

The bike still has the small noise on the bottom right side of the engine. Its hard to describe. It is intermittent. The timing chain has been inspected.

Based on input from this forum I asked the local service department to check what version the cam tensioner is.

Well, its a week later and they have not checked it yet.

Harald · Apr 2, 2015

Thanks for reporting back. It sounds like you have the same spider failure I did on my 07. I fixed mine by cutting off the offending spider and soldering all the wires together. This fix is still working perfectly over 4 years and 50,000 mile later. But if Yamaha is paying for new front sub harness, then you're golden. I would suggest having the shop apply some type of corrosion preventative compound (I use dielectric grease, but others prefer ACF-50 or other magic potions) to the spiders in that sub-harness to avoid future problems.

BTW, the recall doesn't replace a harness unless there was damage. It adds a new harness that ties the S4 spider wires to ground to mostly fix the problem.

rbentnail · Apr 3, 2015

Harald said:
Thanks for reporting back. It sounds like you have the same spider failure I did on my 07. I fixed mine by cutting off the offending spider and soldering all the wires together. This fix is still working perfectly over 4 years and 50,000 mile later. But if Yamaha is paying for new front sub harness, then you're golden. I would suggest having the shop apply some type of corrosion preventative compound (I use dielectric grease, but others prefer ACF-50 or other magic potions) to the spiders in that sub-harness to avoid future problems.
BTW, the recall doesn't replace a harness unless there was damage. It adds a new harness that ties the S4 spider wires to ground to mostly fix the problem.

Dielectric grease is an insulator. Specifically, "It is not recommended to be applied to the actual electrical conductive contacts of the connector because it could interfere with the electrical signals passing through the connector in cases where the contact pressure is very low". You need a conductor for ground spiders. I use https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-NOALOX-4-oz-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-30-026/202276208, have been for at least 2 decades. I've used it since day 1 on my '07 spiders. No overheating or damage whatsoever and no recall done. Apply liberally once per yr.

Harald · Apr 6, 2015

rbentnail said:
Harald said:

Thanks for reporting back. It sounds like you have the same spider failure I did on my 07. I fixed mine by cutting off the offending spider and soldering all the wires together. This fix is still working perfectly over 4 years and 50,000 mile later. But if Yamaha is paying for new front sub harness, then you're golden. I would suggest having the shop apply some type of corrosion preventative compound (I use dielectric grease, but others prefer ACF-50 or other magic potions) to the spiders in that sub-harness to avoid future problems.
BTW, the recall doesn't replace a harness unless there was damage. It adds a new harness that ties the S4 spider wires to ground to mostly fix the problem.

Click to expand...

Dielectric grease is an insulator. Specifically, "It is not recommended to be applied to the actual electrical conductive contacts of the connector because it could interfere with the electrical signals passing through the connector in cases where the contact pressure is very low". You need a conductor for ground spiders. I use https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-NOALOX-4-oz-Anti-Oxidant-Compound-30-026/202276208, have been for at least 2 decades. I've used it since day 1 on my '07 spiders. No overheating or damage whatsoever and no recall done. Apply liberally once per yr.

I knew that some object to dielectric grease for this application which is why I mentioned other options, although the dielectric grease has worked on my bike without ever reapplying and I ride a LOT in rain. I did ensure that the sockets provided good pin tension because then they simply scrape the dielectric grease away from the points of contact.

This is a never ending argument about what is best and there's opinions that dielectric is just fine for this application. https://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm Some would argue that your preferred product is also not acceptable because it's stated use is: "Use the IDEAL NOALOX 4 oz. Anti-Oxidant Compound to improve the efficiency of aluminum conductor connections" and there's no aluminum conductors on the bike that I'm aware of. But I'm sure your product will work fine also because it also stops water and dirt from getting to the electrical contact and corroding it and increasing resistance.

Delboy · Apr 16, 2015

Well the local dealer called today. It seems the new wiring harness that Yamaha sent to them has a damaged connector. A replacement has been requested.

I dropped off this bike at the local dealer on March 24. This is over three weeks ago. And now I am back at the start of the process.

The service department cannot give me an estimate of when the part will arrive or when the repairs will be done.

I have decided to buy a Concours.

HotRodZilla · Apr 16, 2015

Yay you. You think you have problems now, just wait until that Kawasaki shows up! Enjoy.

wfooshee · Apr 16, 2015

You have a dealer problem, not a bike problem. I seriously doubt the harness arrived with a damaged connector. I suppose it's possible the package was crushed or something, but I don't buy it.

As for the Concours, go find a forum and look at what a spark plug change entails..... If that's not bad enough, look for valve checks. (Assuming we're talking about the current bike.....)

Ground Fault

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