Final drive seal failure

Cool !!

That may play a part in speculation that Yamaha doesn't like to over lube the splines, although it seems that they def go the route of under lubing....

A nice thin layer of lube is all thats necessary to keep the splines in good working order, especially high speed splines....

Def a good example here, glad all was ok....

Some where I heard that a foam earplug would fit in the weep hole until said rider had a chance to look at the drive shaft. And, yes the seal was leaking on a '06' with 46,000 miles on it. Yamaha extended warranty took care of the problem.

And you would be surprise how a few drops of oil make you think the leak is a lot worse than it actually is.

I rebuilt one for Adam a few years ago. It was the one he swapped out for an IBR participant that had a small weep in Seattle. There was someone on the forum that had the tool need as a loaner. Adam got it, so I don't remember who it was. The job is actually really easy to do if you have the tool.

They were gearmans, I contacted him 9/13 and he stated that they went missing.

Same issue here three years ago. Several HIGH speed runs for an extended period one day while out West. The next morning splooge was splattered all around the wheel. Lady luck was on my side and I located a mechanic who had just happened to swing by his shop that Sunday morning in Alpine, TX to pick up tools to repair a washing machine at home. He took a look at it and surmised that the oil had simply overheated and expanded during the previous day's fun and frivolity. He drained a little bit of oil out of the pumpkin, cleaned up the wheel and told me I should be good to go, no worries. He was right, three years later - ZERO issues. BTW - he wouldn't even take any money, so I handed $40 bucks to his wife and told her to take him to dinner for me that night.

Big Sky said:

Supertanker and FJRob were on the money. My tech pulled it apart, found no evidence of a leaking seal, but plenty of evidence of grease on the splines. He surmised, as did Super and Rob, that the high speed runs heated things up very nicely back there, got the grease runny and that was what was leaking from the weep hole and fouling the wheel. Put it back together, no new seal, then just ran it 1,500 miles in five days last week, no high-speed workout and no leakage, either.

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that why a high moly paste is recommended; it stays put better than typical grease does.

Big Sky said:

Supertanker and FJRob were on the money. My tech pulled it apart, found no evidence of a leaking seal, but plenty of evidence of grease on the splines. He surmised, as did Super and Rob, that the high speed runs heated things up very nicely back there, got the grease runny and that was what was leaking from the weep hole and fouling the wheel. Put it back together, no new seal, then just ran it 1,500 miles in five days last week, no high-speed workout and no leakage, either.

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No offense but your tech is an idiot. There is no way for grease from the splines to exit through the weephole. None.

With 450,000 miles on various FJRs I find it extremely unlikely that it was grease from the splines that was causing the mess. If it was it would be OBVIOUS. There would be a huge mess all over the part of the final drive that attaches to, or faces the wheel. I have never actually seen that, nor heard of anyone on this forum report that.

It was a weeping seal. Especially if it was coming through the swingarm weephole. That is easy to determine - does your finger come away moist with traces of oil when you touch the weephole? Is it black and nasty from the weephole back on the bottom of the swingarm and final drive? And the smoking gun - is there a messy pile of oil and dirt on the inside of the swingarm when the pumpkin is removed. See my above linked threads for all kinds of photos.

My first FJR would get splooge on the rear wheel every great once in a while. I finally had the forward seals replaced at 110,000 miles. and that cured it for good. Or until it started splooging again 200,000 miles when I had the seals replaced again.

My second FJR started the occasional splooge around 50k miles IIRC and I had the two forward seals replaced. It's been good since and currently has 147,000 miles.

My 09 FJR has 80k miles and has never splooged.

I wouldn't doubt the heat and pressure built up by high speeds is a contributing factor. But not all will splooge from high speeds. Someone once offered the idea that the vent on top of the final drive gets plugged or blocked and when heat and pressure builds up inside it causes some oil to weep past the seals. I think that is as good a root cause as any.

If it continues to weep on a sporadic basis and you can't live with that then replace the two forward seals. Or just clean it up every once in a while and ride on.......

FWIW - It generally cost me around $130 iirc to have the two seals replaced by my local dealer when I brought him the final drive. If it ever happens again I would like to try it myself with the tool that is floating around the forum somewhere.

One last thing - if you are getting splooge and it is NOT coming from the swingarm weephole (which is unlikely), then it is possible it is grease from the splines but still only a remote possibility. More likely is that one of the two seals or the O-ring on the wheel side of the final drive failed or are weeping. That issue happened to radman waaaaay back when and is mentioned in my old Splooge thread.

Skooter, once, after changing my rear wheel and greasing the gears up, I ended up with grease on my rear rim. I cleaned it up and it has never repeated. Was that the same thing, or am I missing something? I'm not talking about my shaft splines. I'm talking about the gear from the rear wheel that fits into the pumpkin when the wheel is re-mounted.

Geez, Skooter, why so abrasive this morning? You can make your points without resorting to, yes, offensive name calling.

I certainly will not argue with you, given your level of expertise v. mine. If anyone is an "idiot," it may be me. Perhaps I misinterpreted or misstated what my tech told me about his suspicions regarding the source of the splooge.

I feel I must defend my tech from your unfair characterization. He has been working on motorcycles since junior high, probably 45 years. His dad, then he, owned the Honda dealership here for decades. My tech gave it up in a divorce and now runs his own independent shop, which is quite successful and has a rare reputation far and wide for quality work, expertise and honesty. He is a valuable local asset appreciated by area riders. He has been working on bikes for me since 1986. I have always been highly satisfied with his work, pricing and ethics. How many shops would tell you the seal didn't need replacing when they had that nice pay-day just waiting to be tapped? His diagnosis, apparently, was accurate: the seal does not (yet) need to be replaced; it did not leak in 1,500 miles of riding last week. Sure, if I do more high-speed runs, I may see more seepage.

I respect your knowledge and experience, but cannot respect or abide your defaming a good man you've never met and know nothing about.

Yikes! Chill. Thick skin around here remember?

I made my statement based on the information I was provided. It is impossible for grease to come out the weephole. And *any* tech that would state so would be an idiot. Simple. True. And in the great scheme of things NOT A BIG DEAL. So relax, this is the internet.

HotRodZilla said:

Skooter, once, after changing my rear wheel and greasing the gears up, I ended up with grease on my rear rim. I cleaned it up and it has never repeated. Was that the same thing, or am I missing something? I'm not talking about my shaft splines. I'm talking about the gear from the rear wheel that fits into the pumpkin when the wheel is re-mounted.

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*******! Ooops there goes that abrasive thing again........ But I digress......

*******! You are supposed to wipe the grease off your hands before you touch the wheel!!!!!

Yours is the first I have ever heard of it. Definitely possible, but not very likely. You must have put a metric buttload of grease on that thing! That black ring that goes around the splines on the wheel is meant to seal everything and keep the grease where it is supposed to be. I have never had any grease get past it. Your're special. You're the first. It must have also made a terrible mess on the inside of the pumpkin? Where it is not flat and all the channels are?

I had splooge at about 60,000 miles. It looked like grease but it was just dirty gear oil. The oil in the pumpkin was clean, it must get 'dirtied' on the way out or on the wheel after it comes out. I bought a set of seals but only needed the big O ring. Cheap and an easy DIY fix. No splooge since.

Guess I'll be ordering seals and a coupler tomorrow. 90k miles and some high speed passes in the desert resulted in this.

I seem to recall that there is a special tool of some type required to replace the coupler. Just checked and the FSM says you need the "Coupling gear/middle shaft tool 90890-01229". Someone on the forum had one and would send it out on loan, but I do not recall who that generous member was.

Not sure if you would really need to replace the Coupling Gear, or could just do the seal. The trick would probably be getting the old seal out with the Coupling Gear in place.

How would one know if the pumpkin vent somehow was plugged or clogged? Seems if it were, the high-speed runs resulting in much heat and internal expansion and pressure (which is why the vent is there in the first place, correct?) could force lubricant past a seal.

Since I'm from New England I know all about this. Get a cork that will tightly fit the fill hole and drill a small hole in the cork that will allow a tight fit when a FOOTBALL inflation (deflation ) needle is inserted. With one hand hold the cork in the opening, then with your other two hands use the hand pump to pump air into the pumpkin. If it pressurizes, the vent is plugged and you shouldn't play with a pressurized pumpkin. If it doesn't pressurize the vent is good. Then again, you could just blow into the opening and see if it vents -- please youtube this if you try it.

On the other hand, you could simply ride your FJR until the pumpkin gets hot then open the fill plug. If it goes pffffttttt like it was pressurized the vent isn't working.

Fred W said:

I seem to recall that there is a special tool of some type required to replace the coupler. Just checked and the FSM says you need the "Coupling gear/middle shaft tool 90890-01229". Someone on the forum had one and would send it out on loan, but I do not recall who that generous member was.
Not sure if you would really need to replace the Coupling Gear, or could just do the seal. The trick would probably be getting the old seal out with the Coupling Gear in place.

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The original loan tool set was made and offered by Gearman HERE there is also a link to the Venture website with details of a Final Drive Repair HERE

Sadly the tools appear to have gone MIA as pointed out by Panman in Post 23 above above

Going through that venture thread affirms my decision not to disassembly my grenading pumpkin.

Donal said:

Fred W said:

I seem to recall that there is a special tool of some type required to replace the coupler. Just checked and the FSM says you need the "Coupling gear/middle shaft tool 90890-01229". Someone on the forum had one and would send it out on loan, but I do not recall who that generous member was.
Not sure if you would really need to replace the Coupling Gear, or could just do the seal. The trick would probably be getting the old seal out with the Coupling Gear in place.

Click to expand...

The original loan tool set was made and offered by Gearman HERE there is also a link to the Venture website with details of a Final Drive Repair HERE

Sadly the tools appear to have gone MIA as pointed out by Panman in Post 23 above above

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Thanks for the links. I'm thinking I should be able to fab up the tool myself, although it won't be nearly as pretty as Gearman's.

Fred W said:

I seem to recall that there is a special tool of some type required to replace the coupler. Just checked and the FSM says you need the "Coupling gear/middle shaft tool 90890-01229". Someone on the forum had one and would send it out on loan, but I do not recall who that generous member was.
Not sure if you would really need to replace the Coupling Gear, or could just do the seal. The trick would probably be getting the old seal out with the Coupling Gear in place.

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Fred, Bill found out that his coupler had a groove worn in it where the seal seats against it. I'm anticipating mine to be the same.