Spider Bite? / No Start Condition

bajaleo · Jun 3, 2015

Some of you may remember my problem of no headlights from a while back, as I received a lot of help from many of you.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/161977-lost-the-headlights-this-morning-07-fjr/

Well it was barely a week after solving that issue that I was on my way to work and experienced a sudden high beam blue indicator light and both turn signal indicator lights blinking for just a moment. Classic ground spider failure symptoms from what I have read here.

Over the next 6 weeks or so, it only happened 3 times, and this past weekend I took about a 7 hour ride to the Rock Store on Mulholland with no problems.

Then yesterday I was riding home from work and made a couple of stops. After the first stop, the high beam indicator and both turn signal indicator lights were on solid, and when using the the turn signals they were blinking unusually fast.

After the second stop, I experienced a no start, along with the other symptoms. Fortunately there was a slight grade and I was able to bump start the bike and make it home.

My question is this: Did any of you who have been bitten by the spider(s) experience a no start along with the other problems? I don't seem to remember reading about it.

And yes, the first thing I checked last night was to make sure my battery terminals were tight.

Thanks, Leo

mcatrophy · Jun 3, 2015

Why don't you simply deal with the spiders? It sounds like you've been riding hoping it will cure itself. It won't.

Fix the spiders, then see if that's cured your "no start" condition.

Queensland Ken · Jun 3, 2015

You did good finding that original fault.

You'll have to go through all the spiders & connectors again.

As you see, a crook S6 may cause a no-start along with the possibility of "other problems"

If the starter button doesn't work, most likely terminal 3 on the S6 or the the upstream wire via the Front Cowling connector 3 to the S4 connector / pin.

Yamaha's recall doesn't address S6, S7 & Connector 3 faults.

Carbon conductive grease is the best option to prevent high resistance, except on the connector.

Make up your own neutral current bypass circuit, similar to Brodies wiring harness, for the 12 volt neutrals.

Just treat the 5 volt transducer spiders, S2 & S5.

PS My mate showed up late one afternoon with the classic S6 fault.

The next day we soldered pig tails onto all 6 neutral bridging pieces, punched a hole in the black plastic caps for the wire.

Soldered the pigtails to a 4mm trunk wire back to the battery.

Wasn't as nice as Brodies harness, that I installed on my 07, but it worked.

bajaleo · Jun 3, 2015

Back when I had my no headlight condition, all spiders were inspected. All looked good. All were coated with conductive grease. I'm not great at soldering so I didn't perform that fix.

I will definitely be looking at them again.

Thanks Mac for the clarification that a bad S6 can cause a no start condition.

Leo

Queensland Ken · Jun 3, 2015

Don't forget the Front Cowling Connector #3, there has been a few problems with it.

It contains both 12 & 5 volt neutral currents.

bajaleo · Jun 7, 2015

So it was spider 6 that failed. You were correct Ken. It was terminal three that melted. I temporarily connected them all together and everything works as it should.

What I don't understand is that barely two months ago I checked all spiders and they looked good. Why would this particular neutral circuit melt in such a short time? It concerns me that I may have an underlying problem.

And to clarify, after soldering all wires together, I should add a wire to go back to the negative terminal on the battery?

Has anyone heard of faulty headlight bulbs that for some reason draw too many amps? A co worker said he's heard of this happening.

Queensland Ken · Jun 7, 2015

Another good find !!!

The more "bypass" neutral current current you can take back to the battery the better.

So yes, solder them all together if the connector block is bad and solder in a large CCA wire back to the - terminal, 2.5 or 4 mm stranded wire.

It's a combination of factors, the size of the wiring ie current carrying capacity and high resistance contact area of the pins within the connector.

Also another good way to reduce neutral current and to make the headlights brighter is to install a Eastern Beaver headlight wiring bypass harness.

Or make one up.

You may wish to update this thread & report it

mcatrophy · Jun 7, 2015

bajaleo said:
...What I don't understand is that barely two months ago I checked all spiders and they looked good. Why would this particular neutral circuit melt in such a short time? ...

A form of thermal run-away.

Once corrosion starts, it puts a bit of resistance into the circuit. This gets the contact hot, which both increases the rate at which corrosion progresses and starts oxidation of the metals (the contact's coatings as well as the metals of the contacts). If there was any anti-corrosion material there, this would melt away or burn off, possibly increasing the chemical mix.

As the temperature increases, the springiness of the contact reduces, decreasing the contact pressure. This both increases the resistance of the remaining contact surface and allows corrosion to creep further between the contact surfaces.

Eventually it gets hot enough that the loom wire close to the contact starts oxidising, increasing its resistance to add to the general demise of the circuit.

rbentnail · Jun 7, 2015

bajaleo said:
So it was spider 6 that failed. You were correct Ken. It was terminal three that melted. I temporarily connected them all together and everything works as it should.
What I don't understand is that barely two months ago I checked all spiders and they looked good. Why would this particular neutral circuit melt in such a short time? It concerns me that I may have an underlying problem.

And to clarify, after soldering all wires together, I should add a wire to go back to the negative terminal on the battery?

Has anyone heard of faulty headlight bulbs that for some reason draw too many amps? A co worker said he's heard of this happening.

When you checked your spiders (all 8, right?) did you apply anything to them before reinstalling? I use an electrically conductive corrosion inhibiting compound. When you say "they looked good", did you actually remove the caps and pull each spider out? This is essential- discoloration of the the metal can't been seen if you don't look at the metal.

mcatrophy said:
bajaleo said:

...What I don't understand is that barely two months ago I checked all spiders and they looked good. Why would this particular neutral circuit melt in such a short time? ...

Click to expand...

A form of thermal run-away.

Once corrosion starts, it puts a bit of resistance into the circuit. This gets the contact hot, which both increases the rate at which corrosion progresses and starts oxidation of the metals (the contact's coatings as well as the metals of the contacts). If there was any anti-corrosion material there, this would melt away or burn off, possibly increasing the chemical mix.

As the temperature increases, the springiness of the contact reduces, decreasing the contact pressure. This both increases the resistance of the remaining contact surface and allows corrosion to creep further between the contact surfaces.

Eventually it gets hot enough that the loom wire close to the contact starts oxidising, increasing its resistance to add to the general demise of the circuit.

I think what mca means is, "once oxidation gets a foothold the overheating process happens pretty quickly."

bajaleo · Jun 7, 2015

rbentnail said:
When you checked your spiders (all 8, right?) did you apply anything to them before reinstalling? I use an electrically conductive corrosion inhibiting compound. When you say "they looked good", did you actually remove the caps and pull each spider out? This is essential- discoloration of the the metal can't been seen if you don't look at the metal.

Yes, pulled all the caps off, pulled each spider out, and reinstalled with conductive grease. I paid extra attention to spider 6, as that one seems to be the most common offender.

I could tell last night just by looking at the melted cap that it had gone off.

Spider Bite? / No Start Condition

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