Turning my traffic light GREEN!

In a different thread, Klubis posted:

On a different note, I learned on another forum that a recalcitrant red light can be tricked into cycling by pressing the starter button on an FZ1. Will this work with an FJR as well, does anybody know?

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Yes, someone knows; and no, the FZ-1 starter button has no special powers. I'm really, really, sure that someone is misleading you, perhaps unintentionally.

Modern traffic signals detect vehicles using two or three primary means:

(1) wires installed in sawcuts in the pavement. You can see these sawcut loops at the stop bar, and sometimes as far as 200 feet upstream of the stop bar. Detects through the disruption in their electromagnetic field as large metal objects (FJRs) drive over the buried wires.

(2) video cameras mounted on arms at several locations around the intersection. Detects when pixels change color in designated "detection zones" drawn electronically in the field of view.

(3) radar units located streetside on each street approaching the signal. Detects as microwave is reflected back from objects passing through the radar beam.

There are other rarely-used methods of vehicle detection, including acoustic sensors, laser beams, pressure plates, and the like. There are also special detectors to force the signal to show a priority green light for police/fire/ambulance, but those detectors got sophisticated very quickly after folks figured out how to cheat them 20 years ago.

In no way will pressing a motorcycle starter button cause the light to change. Or a garage door opener, or manipulation of electric windows, or radar detectors aimed skyward. You can run over to the street corner and push the pedestrian button, but that won't make it turn green any quicker than your FJR arriving in a vehicular detection zone.

Caveat: the foregoing assumes all equipment is functioning correctly.

Sincerely,
Uncle Hud
Professional Traffic Engineer since 1985
currently licensed in Georgia

Check your local traffic laws. Some states (Idaho for one) allow you to proceed through on a red light if you've waited for the lights to go through a cycle and it didn't change for you:

"Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, the driver of a motorcycle approaching an intersection that is controlled by a triggered traffic-control signal using a vehicle detection device that is inoperative due to the size of the motorcycle, shall come to a full and complete stop at the intersection. If the signal fails to operate after one cycle of the traffic signal, the driver may proceed after exercising due caution and care."

There are some funny ideas about how traffic light sensors work. Uncle Hud the DOT professional has offered up a good summary (just like the professional he is) of how the lights work.

The more common saw-cut traffic sensors run an AC signal (frequency signal) through the wires. When a metal object moves into the loop it causes the frequency to shift which is detected by the intersection controller. There are a number of ways the saw-cut loops can be configured but basically they look for the signal shift. The starter's magnetic field does not perturb the sensor loop. Stopping your motorcycle on a saw cut, parallel to the cut, at a corner *may* enhance the possibility that the loop will 'see' you. Adding magnets doesn't perturb the sensor loop either. Bring ferrous metal, lots of metal. Look for intersections which have a bicycle sensor indicated by an arrow on the pavement for where the bicycle is supposed to stop.

There are a lot of things that go into a good intersection install, the system has to contend with vehicles in adjacent loops and the need to sense a tractor trailer where the trailer may be 3'-4' above the pavement. If you find an intersection(s) that you ride through which regularly does not sense you motorcycle call you local DOT or use the DOT web site (if available) and report the intersection. I have done this a number of times, I was shocked that the city of Manchester, NH sent a crew to the intersection within a couple of hours of my call. Even the small local towns have been quite responsive to my requests. Except for Plaistow, NH, Plaistow is on my **** list.

The state of NH is varied on how to handle intersections that don't turn green. For the most part the towns follow the scenario that Spud talks about. Then there are some towns like Plaistow where the police that I talk to told me that if I ever go through an intersection with a red light I will at least get a ticket. They told me to turn right on red AFTER STOPPING, then make a left turn, turn around and then make a right turn I think not.

NC has a stipulation that waiting 3 minutes is long enough and it is a defense in court after you get a ticket for running a red light. It helps with the judge when you go that you bring your owners manual showing the dash clock. It also helps when you try to do something about it. Something like a printed copy of an email from your local state DOT office thanking you for the info on the stubborn light is a step towards your charge being dismissed. BTDT.

I have pressed my centerstand down to the pavement so the loop will pick up the metal and "sense" a disturbance in the force...and trigger a change in the light. This has worked in all but one instance.

edit: you need to be inside the loop for any sort of effect. I'm not an electrical engineer, nor do I know how they get the magic smoke in the wires.

I have found that by taking my glove off and pulling out my phone will make it change every time.

Tennessee has the same law that Spud mentioned above.

Carry a copy with you because I've had a few Cops not know about it. Pretty satisfying when you show them the proof.

I haven't found a way to make them turn green, but I've found that looking in all directions for approaching traffic, putting on my hazards, driving through the intersection, then turning off my hazards makes me not care if it was green.

They use mostly the saw cuts here in Phx and fortunately they are all pretty good about picking up motorcycles. On left turn lanes they always have a saw cut at the first and third car positions, skipping one for the 2nd car position. In order for the left turn arrow to activate at the next cycle there has to be a vehicle at the first and third car positions. If I come up to an intersection to make a left and there's only one car, I always stay back on the 2nd saw cut at the third position and trip the turn arrow. I'm sure many of you have discovered that in your cities.

rushes said:

I have found that by taking my glove off and pulling out my phone will make it change every time.

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Now yer cornfusing me there Russ...are you one armed or ride with only one glove?

Yeah, just like a starter motor, those green light trigger magnets work too. (Not)

Like Wheatie, I have had either success or great coincidence with dropping the center stand within the saw cut on the road. After all, the center stand it metal. I do find it interesting that a 4-wheeled vehicle, while having more metal than a motorcycle, still has the same rubber insulators between it and the metal. In fact, one could infer that the metal from a motorcycle is much closer to the ground than that of any 4-wheeled vehicle (ground clearance is simply less).

Slightly off topic - I constantly have to remind myself to NOT pay attention to the light for the other directions of travel. IOW - don't worry about timing the other direction's red light so quickly as to start my own forward motion too soon. It may come as a shock, but people run red lights in these parts. No Pants - concentrate on your red light only. When it turns green, look both ways before letting the clutch out.

wheatonFJR said:

rushes said:

I have found that by taking my glove off and pulling out my phone will make it change every time.

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Now yer cornfusing me there Russ...are you one armed or ride with only one glove?

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I just need one to work my phone. I have big hands I guess.

I try to pull up with both wheels on the saw cut.

Since a bike is "authorized" to use on public roads, lights should be set to work with them. If they don't, then a lot of times it can be addressed in how to deal with malfunctioning traffic light statutes.

One thing to do, after the fact, is to call the city Manager's office and report the light (date, time, location & description of how it failed). They should send someone out to adjust it pretty quickly.

In TX, we operate under:

https://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/TN/htm/TN.544.htm

Sec. 544.007, i: An operator of a vehicle facing a traffic-control signal, other than a freeway entrance ramp control signal or a pedestrian hybrid beacon, that does not display an indication in any of the signal heads shall stop as provided by Section 544.010 as if the intersection had a stop sign.

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Sec. 544.0075, b: In addition to any other type of vehicle the presence of which the detector for the traffic-actuated electric traffic-control signal may register, the detector for a traffic-actuated electric traffic-control device to which this section applies must be capable of registering the presence of a motorcycle.

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So, if you can articulate that the signal wasn't function (as mandated) for a motorcycle ("I waited 3 full cycles.") then you can treat it the same as a non-functioning light (as if it were a stop sign).

I used to recommend stopping directly on a sawcut to put the most metal content in the strongest portion of the electromagnetic field. Quit after realizing that put Aunt Kelly on the ridge between pavement ruts, and she had trouble getting both feet down. It's still the best policy if leg length isn't a problem.

Our Governor vetoed the "run the broken red light" law that was passed by the Georgia General Assembly a few months ago. Bummer.

I've heard that if you run lots of steel shot as balancing beads in your tires they will trigger those stubborn green lights and your gas mileage will improve by 12.7%.

Minnesota has the same 'Red light stuck' law as Spud mentioned.

But my wife gets so worried, so I make like a UPS driver and just make 3 rights, and take the long way around.

The first time I punched on the hazards and rolled through a dead redlight with my wife on the back, she about came unglued. Didn't think I'd seen that the light was red. That was her first ride in a long time. At the same time she got torqued up about the light, she started getting claustrophobic in her helmet and couldn't work the chinbar release. Fully involved by the time I got her to get off the bike in a grocery store parking lot so I would work the release for her. She settled down. I had her practice working the release. I told her relax, if she actually did run out of air in the helmet and passed out, she'd fall off the bike, so I'd know she needed help with her helmet.... Much better now.

I've got a few loop-triggered lights around here that often won't change unless I hit the starter button on my FZ1 (either one of them) and I have been doing this for a few years so I'm pretty certain it's what is triggering them. I haven't tested them enough with the FJR to be sure, but the closest one seems to behave the same.

My theory is the field generated by the starter is enough to trip them. Not magic, just electromagnetic interference..