ES suspension - 'splain me

RBEmerson · May 11, 2018

The 21 ES suspension settings have totally baffled me.

The chances of riding two up, with or without luggage basically zero. They can, I think, be skipped over.

I want a setting for aggressive (at least my version if it) riding, which is probably the solo rider with something STD.

I want a somewhat cushier setting for solo with luggage.

Out of curiosity, I tried SOFT -3 for solo w/ luggage. It felt almost sloppy soft. Until I hit a bump. It slammed through the otherwise over-cushy setting.

How do I come up with a soft ride without being sloppy soft, and with the ability to at least take the the edge off potholtes, etc. Or to get close to BMW's "cushy mode".

Ignacio · May 12, 2018

RBEmerson said:
The 21 ES suspension settings have totally baffled me....SOFT -3 ...How do I come up with a soft ride without being sloppy soft, and with the ability to at least take the the edge off potholtes, etc. Or to get close to BMW's "cushy mode".

It seems you get there are the 7 variations for each of the 3 settings.

I wouldn't assume the pre-load setting (one, two, with, without luggage) should be skipped over and you might fiddle more to understand the relationship. ES settings have been talked about many, Many times on the forum. If you're a beefy dude you're like one plus luggage or could be equivalent to two with things in your sidebags.

Otherwise, the ES suspension is MUCH better than previous non-ES....but it ain't a magic carpet.

MCRIDER007 · May 12, 2018

I can only comment on my 14ES because it is the only ES I have ridden. I found that both Soft-3 and Soft-2 did not have enough rebound damping and resulted in the dreaded pogo effect over a big bump or a series of small bumps. At 225lbs, I think the solo setting has too much rear sag so I ride with solo plus luggage and have the damping preset at Soft-1, STD-0, and Hard+3. There is very little difference between the damping settings and 95 percent of the time the STD-0 setting seems to have the highest quality of ride over most road surfaces. Soft is a bit plusher over very smooth surfaces.

If I ride with faster riders on lighter bikes I will go to the 2-up preload setting to quicken the steering, using the STD-0 damping.

RBEmerson · May 12, 2018

Overall, I'm really weak on setting up the suspension for any bike. I'm not sure I can even say "I know just enough to be dangerous". [/ wink ]

The part of the ES suspension I don't get is how a sharp transient input to the suspension is handled. I spent a week with a '16 RT and a '17 K1600, and my previous bike, k1200RS had Ölin shocks. The ES suspension doesn't seem to handle those pops in the same way. Obviously I'm not riding those three other bikes, but I'm trying to get at least a comparable feel. I just don't know enough to point the ES suspension in a comparable direction. Here I'm looking for a "making miles on the Interstate" setting. Since I ride one up, sometimes with "luggage" and sometimes not, using the 2 up settings to get a soft ride for one up isn't a problem.

Setting up for twisties around here (PA is noted for its poor roads), going too hard means launching the back end - not a good thing when laid over and getting serious about a corner. So, once again I'm trying to come up with a starting point before tweaking the settings.

I'm 6', with an Aerostich Roadcrafter and Combat Boots, and a helmet, I'm probably putting 210 pounds on the bike.

cl12000 · May 12, 2018

I think suspension or ride quality is a very subjective subject. However, this works for me.

The way I finally learned how a suspension is supped to work was from a guy on a ST1300 board. He broke it down by spring rebound and then by dampening. Spring rebound is the solo, rider with luggage stuff and the soft, std, hard, is the dampening stuff.

First set the bike up to not bounce. I do this just by standing up and sitting with force if it bounces I go to the next setting. Then I look for a bad road (man hole covers, rail road tracks) and adjust the dampening (depending on my mood and the style of ride I want for that day) so it doesn't jar me when I hit bumps. I have found if the preload is off (if it bounces) I can never get the dampening set the way I like it. I use soft+3 to STD 0 to -2 most of the time and solo to solo with luggage.I weigh 190 lbs and never have a passenger.

I don't understand why we need a hard suspension on a motorcycle.

In my opinion using this method my 2016 FJR1300 ES rides better when hitting road bumps than my 2016 Goldwing with an upgraded suspension. A lot of guys set the rear spring preload to max when in the twisties here and the Goldwing forums. I think it is for clearance. All this does for me is make it harder for me to flat foot the bike when I stop. My riding skills are no where near good enough that I am even close of running out of clearance on any bike.

I am open to better ways of setting up suspensions if I am missing something I should be doing.

RBEmerson · May 12, 2018

Thanks for the input!

The Ölins I mentioned were very much for "being serious" about turns and twisties. However, the ride was not... harsh? ...teeth-jarring? Neither was it soft and La-Z-Boy. The idea is to keep the tires in contact with the road full time (more drive, less side slip). The Ölins were ...what?... more precise about how they worked. By comparison, I had a C10 Concours that, on my first ride on an Interstate hit a crosswise very high tar snake. It was heard to miss the effects of, in particular, the back tire being off the road. And, of course, I checked my fillings afterwards. I don't remember how, but I was able to dial things down a bit.

Back to the ES, I want to lose some of the distinct jarring, while while the suspension isn't ...soggy?... Anyway, what I'm looking for is a general sense of start here and try tweaking in this direction.

I agree the two-up options raise the bike enough that, even with a 33" inseam, foot control is marginal. (My great nightmare is, of course, a drop. I dropped a K1600 at the end of a panic stop, but then it was literally "do or die" when confronted with an Austrian Post bus. Don't want to go there again, no, no, no.)

BTW how are YT videos properly embedded in a post?

mech 1 twa · May 12, 2018

Biggest problem with the all non ES bikes is the rear shock. Exactly what you describe harsh on sharp edge bumps. Just because its adjustable doesn't mean internal valving can flow enough fluid . ES or not

Preload is the first adjustment. Amount bike settles with your weight on it.

Compression is the hard hit you feel. Rebound is is the bouncing after. Its a compromise.

Aftermarket stuff seems to make a better product. Olins Penske Wilbers.

RBEmerson · May 12, 2018

Hmmm... interesting thought.

As sample of the sort of roads I want to run without worrying about the suspension, think about PA 501 and PA 125 to Shamokin. There are stretches that are ...um... rougher than a cob. I was up there (well part of it) a week ago, and getting banged more often than I expected.

The Ölins on the last bike were a "gift" from the PO. I'm sure I could have tuned them to be more effective, but they sure were nice.

Heen · May 13, 2018

I like the convenience of my ES but the setting will never be perfect. you have no pre-load adjustment for the forks and the way I understand the dampening it is linked. First, set the rear pre-load and next set the dampening of the forks. If I an riding aggressively, I run a pre-load of 1 plus luggage and dampening of Hard -2.

RBEmerson · May 13, 2018

I'm learning more and more...

mech 1 twa · May 13, 2018

PA. 125 is a good road as far as turns and hills. Road surface varies. Some of it has been resurfaced in last few years it was worse.

78 --501- 125 to Shamokin goes over 5 mountains and is a fun ride. I ride it a few times a year mostly south to north.

RBEmerson · May 14, 2018

The stretch that passes under I-81 is a challenge for any suspension. I tried the the road one winter and had a truly religious experience dealing with being in mid-turn and finding fine grit deposits to help car traffic. Nothing I could do would allow steering through the corner or braking hard, even with ABS. The thought of oncoming traffic as well as winding up in the woods lead to a prayerful moment. Suffice it to say I survived.

The stretch that passes under I-81 is a challenge for any suspension. I tried the the road one winter and had a truly religious experience dealing with being in mid-turn and finding fine grit deposits to help car traffic. Nothing I could do would allow steering through the corner or braking hard, even with ABS. The thought of oncoming traffic as well as winding up in the woods lead to a prayerful moment. Suffice it to say I survived.

Uncle Hud · May 15, 2018

RBEmerson posted: <snip, snip, snip> The chances of riding two up, with or without luggage basically zero. They can, I think, be skipped over.

Not so fast, brother! My normal setting is 1-up with luggage, hard, for my almost-every-day commute -- and it's just a briefcase and me.

The ride goes from smooth suburban avenues at 30 mph, onto I-75 into Midtown Atlanta at 70 mph, and then into the City streets at 30 mph or slower. I like the stiffness on the freeway due to the occasional need for hard braking, and I need the stiffness in the city for handling potholes and steel plates and really rough pavement.

Make sure your tires are at 42 psi or higher; low tire pressure can negate a lot of what the suspension is trying to do.

RBEmerson · May 16, 2018

I'm surprised by your suspension choice for commuting. IMHO that sounds like a good way to jar fillings lose.

I'm not sure I see where a soft suspension degrades braking. I suppose it can be argued that the frame moves around more than with firm suspension settings. As I'm finding out, any FJR suspension setting will pass along transients (potholes, etc.) which leads me to suspect that frame motion isn't as obvious in braking as might be expected. Also, linked brakes (which I really, really, really, really want to disable) probably changes how the frame moves ,or not, relative to linked braking. Particularly on steep grades (7% and more) I use my rear brakes first and add some front braking after that. The idea is to keep the nose from diving and reducing the amount of suspension motion available to the front end. Some people may disagree with this strategy. Particularly in the Alps (with some roads having 14% pitch),it worked well.

At the moment I'm using 40/42 which feels pretty close to right for anything from tire scrubbing weaves to diving into corners and adjusting the line along the way. The '16 FJR that I demoed, however, clearly was under-inflated, making the steering ...um... underwhelming. Anyway, it's been my experience that going to the high range of a tire's pressure range makes any bike more susceptible to the dirty airflow from 18-wheelers or side winds. Pressure becomes a compromise of heightened steering action and improved stability.

Uncle Hud · May 16, 2018

RBEmerson posted, in part: I'm surprised by your suspension choice for commuting. IMHO that sounds like a good way to jar fillings lose.

Fillings are fine; the "hard" setting isn't as harsh as you imagine.

Not sure about this, but hard braking with a soft suspension will cause significant fork compression, which changes the front end geometry and affects handling -- and the rebound from deeply compressed forks can cause you to lose your balance. All of those things become incredibly important when braking hard on I-75 at 70 mph during rush hour.

RBEmerson · May 16, 2018

Um... if STD +1 is a bit much over ridges (frost heaves???), and other joys of some road surfaces, I don't imagine that hard (-3/+3) is going to be much better. If it's anything like I've encountered with other very "firm" suspensions, I'd expect the rear wheel to literally launch off raised into the air enough to show brief revving until the tire hits the road. Pass.

OK, I concede that soft suspension will let the front to compress more readily than stiffer suspension. And of course the back will raise faster than with a stiffer suspension. I'm not sure about how much weight moves forward, loading the front brake more and loading the rear brake. Maybe yes, maybe no. I suspect the answer is yes.

But the big problem is the front suspension. If they're more compressed, relative to stiffer shocks, hitting something that compresses the front end may well bring it to fully compressed. Not a good thing.

Again, I concede that "cushy" braking has some problems in the "jamming on the brakes". situation. Silly me for missing that - doh...

I don't get "losing balance", though. Braking in a curve is never a good idea, but ya do what ya gotta do, particularly if the car in front does a brake jam. If the bike's leaned over and speed drops to near zero, drop is the operative word. Oh s***! But I don't see losing balance in a straight-line hard stop, other than getting feet down in time.

Uncle Hud · May 16, 2018

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion.

mcatrophy · May 16, 2018

RBEmerson said:
... Also, linked brakes (which I really, really, really, really want to disable) ... I use my rear brakes first and add some front braking after that. ....

That is exactly what the linking of the FJR brakes does. When you press the foot pedal gently, there is no front braking; only when you reach a certain pressure threshold does some front braking occur. And then not very much, only one of the four pairs of front pads is operated by the rear pedal.
There is, of course, no linking from front lever to rear brake.

RBEmerson · May 16, 2018

Uh, IIRC applying the rear brake also applies two cylinders on the front brake. Further, it's my understanding the rear brake is applied when the front brake is applied. The later isn't a completely useless idea, unless the rear wheel (which always has less braking ability compared to the front brake) is lightened to the point it loses almost all contact with the road (see above re: launching. - For unbelievers, trucker associations rank Pennsylvania as being high on the list of the worst roads in the US). Braking and losing contact is not a good thing. It creates the possibility the rear end will try to pass the front end. (Eek!)

I wish I could remember where I heard/read this. I am wide open to correction on how linking works.

NTL, I really, really, really want to be able to disable linked brakes. Think of it as being on a par with being able to disable traction control when trying to, for example, get out of sand (why would anyone take an FJR to a place where that could happen - Daytona's beach, maybe?). Oh well, I also really, really, really want someone to give me a pound of 20's sliced paper thin, too.

ES suspension - 'splain me

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

Well-known member

Intramural Culture Warrior

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Barefooter

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg

Well-known member

Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg

Well-known member

Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg

Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS

Well-known member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!