ES suspension - 'splain me

[Fred W]

There is an ongoing poll on that very topic. So far, nobody seems to have needed to rebuild an ES rear shock or front forks, which considering the miles many owners put on these bikes, and that the first year 2014 ESes are now almost 4 years old, is really saying something.

Only a couple of very high mile riders have replaced their fork seals, and those were done prophylactically, along with suspension oil change. No seals or bushing failures were reported.

I still have my YES running on my 14 until sometime late in 2019. Knock on wood, have not used it yet at almost 35k miles. (Mine is not one of the high milers)

 

[RBEmerson]

While we're on the topic of ES, can anyone chime in as to the reliability of the components? Would you be comfortable buying a used ES without an existing warranty?
I bought an A for a few reasons: easier to upgrade, cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix. But there are a couple used ES FJRs and Teneres that have caught my eye...

Read any of the BMW forums and you'll wonder how they stay on the road. Photos of burning (with flames and everything) rear end "banjos", guys proudly showing how they replaced a cylinder while in a parking lot... scary!

The lack of these legendary moments, in the FJR world, are part of what brought me to the FJR, (add lower maintenance costs to the list)

Obviously some bikes are so unfixable to take them out of the market. Dad telling son about the house George Washington used as a headquarters: "They really knew how to build houses back them. Look at how long they survive." Son: "Yeah, Dad, but what about all the ones that fell apart?" So there is some natural selection about bikes, too. But the odds of finding a good [/FJR] certainly look better than finding a good used BMW.

EDIT

 

[K_Flyer]

As far as the linked braking, as has been established, the linking is unidirectional, front brake force added only when using the rear pedal, not vice versa. But there are also two valves that control the hydraulic linking. There is one valve that restricts the linking to the front until a certain pressure threshold has been exceeded. This allows one to trail brake with just the rear brake if you want to, or to manually apply front and rear brakes as you see fit. It is really only when you stomp on the rear pedal that the threshold is exceeded and brake pressure goes to the front.

Bingo! One thing that almost turned me away from the FJR was the linked braking because braking the front makes the bike want to "stand up.". But after I rode it for a while, I found myself trail-braking like on the BMW. Now I know why it felt the same. I only used light pressure on the rear brake. This is not clear in the manual. Thanks, Fred.

 

[RBEmerson]

Er, I'm not quite sure I understand "stand up" in connection with front brakes. Part of the reason for limiting front brakes on an incline going down is minimize diving, where the front end collapses the forks enough to limit fork travel. Not a good thing if the road's not smooth. See that taken to extremes on the cobbled La Tremola video.

 

[K_Flyer]

"Stand Up" refers to what happens if you apply front brakes while leaned over in a turn. It tries to reduce the lean angle. This occurs with fork suspension and also with the various BMW suspension systems I've experienced that don't have the front end dive of forks. It has nothing to do with forks or descending a slope. Try this: go into a long curve, well leaned over, and apply front brakes (gently!). The bike will try to reduce the lean angle and thus increase the turn radius. Do the same thing and apply rear (trail) braking and the bike will maintain the lean angle and, of course, slow down.

I've noticed in moving from the BMW world to the FJR world, there seem to be a number of terms that are not common to both worlds. Sorry if I use terms not common in this community.

Oops. Missed a word the first time around.

 

[RBEmerson]

OK, I get it now.

 

[MartyO]

I've had a recent epiphany regarding my ES suspension. For the last 70,000 miles or so I was quite happy with solo riding; 1-up with bags, Soft -3, Std +1, Hard +3. I would switch between these on my 100 mile round trip daily commute and for sportier weekend riding I would leave it on the hard setting. As stated earlier in this post, the soft was too soft, even at Soft 0. The Standard felt a little mushy and I was happy with the hard.

My new enlightenment came after reading a European review on an ES and the tester preferred 2-up for his solo rider settings. I am now using 2-up, Soft -3, Std +1, and Hard +3. With the added preload on the back the soft feels cushy on the freeways but not too much. Standard is so nice, I ride this most of the time, feels just right. On hard, the bike has better turn-in and control and feels very sporty and capable. Wished I would have tried this about 80,000 miles ago.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Fred W]

Its probably worth repeating that increasing the preload on the rear shock does not make it any stiffer. It does raise the rear end and makes the steering quicker though. And it changes what the available damping settings mean. So, any perceived difference in stiffness is all due to increased damping

I found the chart that shows graphically, though not precisely, what the suspension settings are supposed to be like. Although this was never widely distributed, I got this from a Yamaha employee when the 2014 first came out.

As you can see, the std +1 at the 1-up no luggage is considerably less damped than the std +1 at the two-up no luggage.

 

[K_Flyer]

It would help to know what weights Yamaha assumes for rider, luggage and pillion. Rider weight can vary a lot, more than the added load of luggage.

 

[BigOgre]

It would help to know what weights Yamaha assumes for rider, luggage and pillion. Rider weight can vary a lot, more than the added load of luggage.

Yup, that has been coming up in discussions for a long time, right? Recommended spring rates on the Gen Is when they were being replaced and/or upgraded? It became pretty much understood and accepted that what might be a "normal" solo rider in one part of the world might not be the same as where you are. (I also believe this applies to ergos as well.)

When I first set-up and started playing with my ES settings I had forgotten that point and immediately went to solo without luggage. After awhile my brain made the connection and I bumped it up to with luggage and sometimes more depending on how I was loaded. I was aware about what Fred posted too, wherein +3 in one preload setting wasn't the same as +3 in another so I knew that also impacted how the bike felt to me. Lately I've been playing around with my presets there to see what I like. I guess that's the ES way of dialing in a suspension.

 

[RBEmerson]

Fred W, great thanks for the diagram! I suspect that the info about a '14 should apply to all of Gen 3 and Gen 4. Or the differences are minor.

FYI, using that diagram, it's very easy to get back into your Photobucket albums, to see some nice pictures of your bike. I'm just sayin'

 

[MartyO]

I've had a recent epiphany regarding my ES suspension. For the last 70,000 miles or so I was quite happy with solo riding; 1-up with bags, Soft -3, Std +1, Hard +3. I would switch between these on my 100 mile round trip daily commute and for sportier weekend riding I would leave it on the hard setting. As stated earlier in this post, the soft was too soft, even at Soft 0. The Standard felt a little mushy and I was happy with the hard.
My new enlightenment came after reading a European review on an ES and the tester preferred 2-up for his solo rider settings. I am now using 2-up, Soft -3, Std +1, and Hard +3. With the added preload on the back the soft feels cushy on the freeways but not too much. Standard is so nice, I ride this most of the time, feels just right. On hard, the bike has better turn-in and control and feels very sporty and capable. Wished I would have tried this about 80,000 miles ago.

Just my humble opinion.

Just wanted to add my weight with gear is around 210 pounds.

 

[Fred W]

Fred W, great thanks for the diagram! I suspect that the info about a '14 should apply to all of Gen 3 and Gen 4. Or the differences are minor.
FYI, using that diagram, it's very easy to get back into your Photobucket albums, to see some nice pictures of your bike. I'm just sayin'

Photos of lots of bikes, and cars, and even some family members, and places Ive been too. I consider any photos I post online to immediately be public domain. Im not paranoid enough to think that some crazed ***** will hunt me down and kill me from some bike photo I posted online. If they wanted to find me they could just look me up in the phone book. Im old enough to still maintain a landline and its still listed. Or they could just walk up to my front door. I dont have any high tech security cameras or alarm systems or nothin. Hell, most of the time our doors are unlocked and open to all invaders.
Worry less. Enjoy your life more.

Then again... I dont live near Philly.

 

[Fred W]

It would help to know what weights Yamaha assumes for rider, luggage and pillion. Rider weight can vary a lot, more than the added load of luggage.

Not really. While riders weight may reasonably vary between, say 150 and 250 lbs, remember that the riders position is close to half way between the wheels, so only half of that 100 lb variable affects each end. When you plop your 150 lb (being optimistic for you here) missus on the back, pretty much all of that 150 will be over the rear shock. Same with those saddle bags she stuffed all her accoutrements in. Riders weight actually affects things considerably less than the added loads.

 

[RBEmerson]

[/...]Worry less. Enjoy your life more.

Then again... I dont live near Philly.

Well, um, isn't southern New Hampshire sorta like a suburb of Boston?

 

[RBEmerson]

BTW, going way back to my OP, I finally, finally, finally get the business of changing settings on the fly. I even put it to use today. Woohoo!

 

[Canadian FJR]

Here's a bit on info on settings, I hope it helps.

When solo I run the Damping in soft, preload is set with 1 rider & luggage

When two up I run soft but raise preload to full two rider and luggage

Yesterday I spent the day at our local race track and before heading out, I found this.

https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/8-fjr-central/138593-2017-fjr-1300-es-suspension-setup.html#/topics/138593

Preload set to two riders with damping on standard was pretty much perfect for some very aggressive riding. These are now my

three go to set-ups.

 

[Fred W]

Kind of what Ive been saying all along. Some people equate proper suspension setup as being a few clicks beyond super stiff to the point of discomfort. The real deal in my mind is that, when the suspension is set perfectly, it is working below you and you dont even notice it. Which means it has to be compliant enough to follow the road undulations. Super stiff may work on a super smooth race track, but not so much in the real world.

Need I say it? YMMV.